New Styx

[timmy]

JY always sounded like Ethel Merman three octaves higher than normal to me when he sang the high parts. A good example would be the high part Mademoiselle (live). High part in Lady (live) is clearly Tommy Shaw. It is very possible they are doubling up on the parts when they cut the tracks for the albums so the blending of the voices can be deceptive.

[chescorph]

For what it's worth the remake they did of Lady on the greatest hits did feature Shaw quite prominently. Not that it helps answer the question but he does have an amazingly strong voice. It might be harder to tell live now as you often have 3 guys singing harmony now instead of 2.

[SteveSly]

For what it's worth the remake they did of Lady on the greatest hits did feature Shaw quite prominently. Not that it helps answer the question but he does have an amazingly strong voice. It might be harder to tell live now as you often have 3 guys singing harmony now instead of 2.

Actually live they often have 4. Bassist Ricky Phillips does a lot of harmony vocals as well, as he did when he was in The Babys back in the day.

[lwpmedia]

I just received my review copy and haven't listened yet.

But, the length is surprising old-school clocking in at just over 34 minutes...

I'll be back after a couple of spins...

I'd did listen to the quick opener, "Overture" which had some very curious "Roboto-esque" voicings in there...

[mozo-pg]

34 minutes! The 70s albums were at least 40-45 minutes on average. I'm very curious to hear your impressions.

[Sputnik]

34 minutes! The 70s albums were at least 40-45 minutes on average. I'm very curious to hear your impressions.

Styx - 32:36
Styx II - 34:20
Serpent is Rising - 40:07
Man of Miracles - 37:20
Equinox - 34:32
Crystal Ball - 34:45
Grand Illusion - 38:59
Pieces of Eight - 42:18
Cornerstone - 38:17

Going by timing, this new on will be a masterpiece!

Bill

[mozo-pg]

Styx - 32:36
Styx II - 34:20
Serpent is Rising - 40:07
Man of Miracles - 37:20
Equinox - 34:32
Crystal Ball - 34:45
Grand Illusion - 38:59
Pieces of Eight - 42:18
Cornerstone - 38:17

Going by timing, this new on will be a masterpiece!

Bill

That's kind of surprising. I didn't realize most of their catalogue is mostly in the 30-40 minute range.

[Sputnik]

That's kind of surprising. I didn't realize most of their catalogue is mostly in the 30-40 minute range.

Most 70s albums are 40 minutes or shorter. The albums got a bit longer in the late 70s, and for some reason the Genesis albums are super-long (Selling England is 53:50, Trick is 51:01, and W&W is 50:54), but it's usually under 20 minutes per side.

Bill

[JJ88]

^That's one of the positive things about this 'vinyl revival'...artists are having to think in those terms again. I prefer the CD sonically but one of the bad things is that eventually you had 80 minutes as standard so some (like The Rolling Stones) took that as license to fill up their albums. Generally, if you had a double album in the past, it had to be a major statement and had to justify its length. Going back to 35-45 minutes is not a bad thing at all.

(As you say, Genesis were kind of an exception- they definitely gave fans value for money!)

[Sputnik]

^That's one of the positive things about this 'vinyl revival'...artists are having to think in those terms again. I prefer the CD sonically but one of the bad things is that eventually you had 80 minutes as standard so some (like The Rolling Stones) took that as license to fill up their albums. Generally, if you had a double album in the past, it had to be a major statement and had to justify its length. Going back to 35-45 minutes is not a bad thing at all.

(As you say, Genesis were kind of an exception- they definitely gave fans value for money!)

I largely agree with this. I've often described myself as "Mr. Short Attention Span Theater." I also love CDs, but man, those 60, 70, 80 minute CDs just wear me out. I also think this trend contributed to a a lot of "padding" on albums. To me, lots of ideas could have been distilled to be more concise and effective, and others could have been done away with altogether. I've also definitely been noticing the trend toward shorter albums lately, and I've gotten a much stronger impression of the material on these albums. To me, it's sacrificing quantity for quality, and I'll take that trade-off any day.

My only minor hesitation is albums that are shorter than 35 minutes, like the first Hooffoot album that I just got on CD. Don't get me wrong, I love that album and am not complaining, but I did feel that at ~34 minutes it could have gone a bit longer. I realize it was made for vinyl, but even with modern vinyl you have 19-20 minutes per side. So it can be taken to an extreme. Generally for me, about 40-45 minutes is optimal. Studies have shown that this is about the attention span of most people, and I think it makes albums digestible and puts quality issues over quantity.

I also confess my curiosity about this new Styx albums is actually greater given the shorter length. It does potentially point to a conscious attempt at recapturing what they did in their best (imo) period. I am going to make a point of checking this out.

Bill

[Gerhard]

Earlier in this thread someone posted that it will be 42 mins long, per itunes, which I thought was still a bit short for 14 songs. Amazon also says 42 min, and here is a tracklist I found via Google, which does add to about 42 mins. I guess Red Storm will be the proggy epic, at 6 min.

1 Overture 1:23
2 Gone Gone Gone 2:08
3 Hundred Million Miles From Home 3:40
4 Trouble At The Big Show 2:30
5 Locomotive 5:04
6 Radio Silence 4:18
7 The Greater Good 4:10
8 Time May Bend 2:31
9 Ten Thousand Ways 1:23
10 Red Storm 6:04
11 All Systems Stable 0:18
12 Khedive 2:04
13 The Outpost 3:51
14 Mission To Mars 2:43

[gojikranz]

^That's one of the positive things about this 'vinyl revival'...artists are having to think in those terms again. I prefer the CD sonically but one of the bad things is that eventually you had 80 minutes as standard so some (like The Rolling Stones) took that as license to fill up their albums. Generally, if you had a double album in the past, it had to be a major statement and had to justify its length. Going back to 35-45 minutes is not a bad thing at all.

(As you say, Genesis were kind of an exception- they definitely gave fans value for money!)

except I think we can't dance is one of the worst offenders. I think there is a pretty good 50 minute album in there but padded too much. though if they had made it 50 minutes they surely would have still left on hold on my heart just to disappoint me .

it is nice that some bands are coming out with shorter albums with vinyl in mind. although the flipside we are also getting a lot of odd 3 sided records or 56 minutes spread thinly over 4 sides that are kinda frustrating.

[JJ88]

^Oh I definitely agree, We Can't Dance is half-good, half-not. That's a double album on record but only a single CD. I meant their 70s albums really, which from Foxtrot onwards, were usually 55 minutes or thereabouts.

As for Styx and epics, things like 'Suite Madame Blue', 'Come Sail Away', 'Castle Walls' etc. on the classic albums weren't that long.

[Gerhard]

it is nice that some bands are coming out with shorter albums with vinyl in mind. although the flipside we are also getting a lot of odd 3 sided records or 56 minutes spread thinly over 4 sides that are kinda frustrating.

Agreed, both of those are annoying, but I guess I'd rather have three 20 min sides than four 15 min sides, if the flow of songs allows it. Worse yet, to me, are 45-50 min albums spread over 4 sides at 45 RPM. Not only do I have to change sides three times instead of once, I first have to take the platter off and change the belt to the 45 RPM pulley.

[lwpmedia]

my bad on the time -- for some reason I only had the first 11 tracks, just went back and added the rest...

the album is good so far, classic sounding Styx in a modern context...

cool there's at least one classic band out there staying relevant in a trying climate!

[Sputnik]

Agreed, both of those are annoying, but I guess I'd rather have three 20 min sides than four 15 min sides, if the flow of songs allows it. Worse yet, to me, are 45-50 min albums spread over 4 sides at 45 RPM. Not only do I have to change sides three times instead of once, I first have to take the platter off and change the belt to the 45 RPM pulley.

What I don't understand about this is that if Genesis was making 50 to 53 minute LPs in the late 1970s, why can't a band today make a 45-50 minute LP? If they could put practically 25 minutes on a side, why can't a modern band do that?

Bill

[the winter tree]

I also think the trend towards shorter, more concise albums is a good thing. It got ridiculous in the 90s, lots of overlong padded albums. The 80 minute format is good for best ofs, compilations, and live albums.
I remember being pressured by a label I signed to in the late 90s to stretch out a very concise 48 minute album with songs that I felt didn't belong. I gave in and regretted it.

[JJ88]

^As I said, The 'Stones are repeat offenders for me. Voodoo Lounge, Bridges To Babylon and A Bigger Bang have good songs but too much filler.

I didn't keep it long but I remember Cyclorama having a fair bit of filler too.

What I don't understand about this is that if Genesis was making 50 to 53 minute LPs in the late 1970s, why can't a band today make a 45-50 minute LP? If they could put practically 25 minutes on a side, why can't a modern band do that?

Bill

The quality can be compromised. If you look at SEBTP, they have quieter songs as the last track on each side. I dread to think what some of Todd Rundgren's like A Wizard A True Star and Initiation sound like on record.

[gojikranz]

^As I said, The 'Stones are repeat offenders for me. Voodoo Lounge, Bridges To Babylon and A Bigger Bang have good songs but too much filler.

I didn't keep it long but I remember Cyclorama having a fair bit of filler too.



The quality can be compromised. If you look at SEBTP, they have quieter songs as the last track on each side. I dread to think what some of Todd Rundgren's like A Wizard A True Star and Initiation sound like on record.

I have had a few copies of initiation. never found one without a skip on side 2. sounds decent but you gotta turn it up loud which of course increases the pops and crackles noise.

I would think that with modern 180 gram that longer sides would be somewhat more doable cause at least the grooves could be somewhat deeper hopefully helping with the tendency to skip when grooves are so close together.

[Sputnik]

The quality can be compromised. If you look at SEBTP, they have quieter songs as the last track on each side. I dread to think what some of Todd Rundgren's like A Wizard A True Star and Initiation sound like on record.

Yeah, I figured it was something like this. It just seems odd they were able to deal with it back then, but not now. And while SEBTP has quieter songs, what about TotT and W&W? Wot Gorilla is not exactly a quiet song. I don't recall this skipping when I had it on vinyl, and I had a crappy turntable.

II would think that with modern 180 gram that longer sides would be somewhat more doable cause at least the grooves could be somewhat deeper hopefully helping with the tendency to skip when grooves are so close together.

You'd think there should be some solution. I have no horse in the race as vinyl doesn't really interest me, but it always makes me scratch my head why there's such a hard limit on modern vinyl releases. We actually looked into doing a vinyl run for the Eccentric Orbit albums, and it just proved impossible because of this. I wasn't the one that researched it, but when presented the weird options we had of reformatting the music or leaving stuff off, I just vetoed the idea. Not with it, to me anyway.

Bill

[Gerhard]

I have "modern" albums, both new recordings and reissues of classics, that have sides with well over 20 min of music, so it's certainly doable. I appreciate that shorter sides can improve sound quality, but there has to be a balance between quality and convenience (clean and easy).

[JJ88]

The other thing was that longer albums were mastered at a lower volume, I think? I guess this is why those audiophile labels put out 45rpm speed versions of albums.

[The Crimson King]

How do they split the bass duties on the album between Chuck Panozzo and Ricky Phillips?

[Trane]

^That's one of the positive things about this 'vinyl revival'...artists are having to think in those terms again. I prefer the CD sonically but one of the bad things is that eventually you had 80 minutes as standard so some (like The Rolling Stones) took that as license to fill up their albums. Generally, if you had a double album in the past, it had to be a major statement and had to justify its length. Going back to 35-45 minutes is not a bad thing at all.

(As you say, Genesis were kind of an exception- they definitely gave fans value for money!)

70's champion was Klaus Schulze, whose classic albums ran close to one hour...

Some 70's French and Italian releases were under 30 minutes ...
I think Elton John lost a court case when he gave his old label less than 30 mins of stuff for the residual album still under contract... So he scraped o,ne more track from the bottom of the drawers.

I largely agree with this. I've often described myself as "Mr. Short Attention Span Theater." I also love CDs, but man, those 60, 70, 80 minute CDs just wear me out. I also think this trend contributed to a a lot of "padding" on albums. To me, lots of ideas could have been distilled to be more concise and effective, and others could have been done away with altogether. I've also definitely been noticing the trend toward shorter albums lately, and I've gotten a much stronger impression of the material on these albums. To me, it's sacrificing quantity for quality, and I'll take that trade-off any day.

My only minor hesitation is albums that are shorter than 35 minutes, like the first Hooffoot album that I just got on CD. Don't get me wrong, I love that album and am not complaining, but I did feel that at ~34 minutes it could have gone a bit longer. I realize it was made for vinyl, but even with modern vinyl you have 19-20 minutes per side. So it can be taken to an extreme. Generally for me, about 40-45 minutes is optimal. Studies have shown that this is about the attention span of most people, and I think it makes albums digestible and puts quality issues over quantity.

I'm also a fan of CDs, but TBH, most of the 90's and 00's albums are simply too long for me as well

As for recent albums, I've seen a few indeed under the 40-mins limit, which tends to irk me a bit...

^As I said, The 'Stones are repeat offenders for me. Voodoo Lounge, Bridges To Babylon and A Bigger Bang have good songs but too much filler.
.

not that The Stones' best albums were in the 90's anyways, right??
Never thought that The Stones were an album band anyways (I don't own any, but have three compilations), but I recently reheard It's Only RnR, and I think that is one freakin' good album.

[Yodelgoat]

not that The Stones' best albums were in the 90's anyways, right??
Never thought that The Stones were an album band anyways (I don't own any, but have three compilations), but I recently reheard It's Only RnR, and I think that is one freakin' good album.

Exile on Main street is an incredible album. If ever the stones were a great album band, it was during that album. I agree that everything else is not that good. It was an album oriented album and it totally shines - not exactly 34 minutes long though.