Thread: SCOTCH Whisky Discussion

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Sweet. Do you have some pics somewhere that you can post? Did you make it down to the south coast of the island where Ardbeg, Laphroig, and Lagavulin are?
    Yes. I went to all three of those. Walked around and took pics. The only tour I took was Bruichladdich. Also saw Bowmore from a distance. I'll put up some pics soon.

  2. #202
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    ...Bowmore...
    My current favorite. Smooth with a bit less peat than Laphroaig.
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  3. #203
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    OK so I decided to spend a little $$ and see what you bastards were hootin' n hollarin' about with the Lagavulin so I got the 16...

    Drive another nail through my liver this shit is tremendous!
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  4. #204
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Magnificent.
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    OK so I decided to spend a little $$ and see what you bastards were hootin' n hollarin' about with the Lagavulin so I got the 16...

    Drive another nail through my liver this shit is tremendous!
    Yep. A top 5 all-time whisky for me. The old and the new are slightly different, but they are both great so it doesn't matter really.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

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  6. #206
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    OK, I continued my watering experiments this afternoon with four different malts...

    The Morangie Nectar D'or did not change with the max of 7 drops of water
    The Knockando 18Y did suffer a bit from the adding of water
    The Aran Sauternes cask (50%) was slightly altered, but I couldn't decide if it was for the better or the worse.
    the Rothes seemed unchanged


    sooo out of eight Malts, there were four unchanged, one uncertain (Y or N) and two worsen (Aber & Knock 18Y) and one better (Gassaugh peated)

    Maybe I should try this only with straight-from-cask undiluted malts

    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Yep. A top 5 all-time whisky for me. The old and the new are slightly different, but they are both great so it doesn't matter really.
    I thought they had only one expression, the 16Y... Just like Oban has only the 14Y
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    I thought they had only one expression, the 16Y... Just like Oban has only the 14Y
    You misunderstood me Trane- I meant the older version and the relatively newer version. They are both 16 year old, but there gave been some subtle changes over the years. I'm pretty sure Ralfy did a whisky review episode on the difference, but my memory is foggy.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

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  8. #208
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I thought they had only one expression, the 16Y... Just like Oban has only the 14Y
    There is an 8 year and a distillers edition. That's it to my knowledge.

    And Oban has a distillers edition and an 18Y (I have the latter in my cupboard)
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  9. #209
    Just got a email from my local liquor store here in Quincy that is doing a Scotch tasting this Thursday. Here's the line-up...

    Johnnie Walker Blue
    Dalwhinnie 15 YR
    Auchentoshan Three Wood
    Glenmorangie Tusail
    Bowmore 12
    Lagavulin 16 YR
    Laphroaig Cask Strength
    Ardbeg Perpetum
    Ardbeg Dark Cove

    Looks pretty good, I think I'm going to go. It will be interesting to put some of these side by side to see the differences. Anyone have any thoughts on any of these?

    Bill

  10. #210
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Last 5 of those should all be good, I don't know those specific Ardbeg's but their stuff is good. The Laphroaig & Lagavulin would be my go to ones.
    Ian

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  11. #211
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    ^^^^
    Laphroaig is like sticking your head in a peat bog... not that that's a bad thing...

  12. #212
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    ^^^^
    Laphroaig is like sticking your head in a peat bog... not that that's a bad thing...
    No, that's Ardberg.

    Laphroaig is nectar.

    Ardberg is like drinking Laphroaig from an ashtray.

    YMMV
    Regards,

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  13. #213
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    BTW - I was at a scotch and cigar bar in San Francisco. Great little place. Expensive as hell, but fun - and the bar maid really, really knew her stuff. Very impressive.

    Except for one thing ... I had an argument with her about something that others have argued as well:

    Is there a difference between smoky and peaty?

    I maintain that the 2 are VERY different. Almost everyone else I've spoken to says they're the same thing.

    Perhaps it would make a difference if people knew the smell and feel of raw peat, vs smoked peat..?

    Your thoughts?
    Regards,

    Duncan

  14. #214
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Auchentoshan Three Wood
    Glenmorangie Tusail
    Bill
    I'm not a fan of those isles malts so I'll retain those two

    The Auchentoshan three woods is phenomenally dense malt, as if there was real matter in the spirit, as it is totally matured in three different kind of barrels. It's a fave of mine.

    As for Morangie's Tusail, it's one of those yearly signature malt with a finite amount of bottles and not to be repeated. The master distiller's experimental joys, if you wish. They can be a bit of a hit & miss.... I had a Madeira-finish that was relatively weak, but this year' Bacalta is simply awesome (if I can buy a second bottle, I will, but it's also 80.00 a pop). As for the Tusail, I haven't been able to taste it, so I can't give you a feedback on it



    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    ^^^^
    Laphroaig is like sticking your head in a peat bog... not that that's a bad thing...
    No, that's Ardberg.

    Laphroaig is nectar.

    Ardberg is like drinking Laphroaig from an ashtray.

    YMMV
    I'd say Lagavullin is like sticking your head in a humus pit (peaty), but it's not the best example of a peaty malt, because it's still slightly smoky.
    Laphroiagh is like sticking your head in an un-cleaned for decades ashtray (smoky)
    Ardbeg is like sticking your head in a bottle of medicine solution (phenolic) in which some people put out their ciggie butts

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    Is there a difference between smoky and peaty?

    I maintain that the 2 are VERY different. Almost everyone else I've spoken to says they're the same thing.

    Perhaps it would make a difference if people knew the smell and feel of raw peat, vs smoked peat..?

    Your thoughts?
    Yes, there is a huge difference for me.... nowadays... When we first started these Malt threads/PM on PE2.0, I couldn't tell much the difference between the two either. Then I had a taste of an extreme peat malt (I mean they went out of their way to give you a paat malt >> it was relatively un balanced spirit, if you ask me) and it became clear that peat is anything but smoke, though obviously there is a link between the two (since you burn the peat for germination purposes). Peat has an moist earth smell... if you garden a lot in a fairly rainy area, you'll know what I mean. In other words, if you've spent your whole like in Aridzone/Arizona, you've got very little chance to know what peat is. If you want to know what peat smells like, go in a moist forest around this time of the year and start furrowing though the decaying leaves and the top soil (+/- first 15 cm).... That's not yet peat, but it's well on the way

    Bowmore is a better example than Lagavullin for peaty malt, but as I said above (in the water dilution posts) Glengassaugh is even better, because it does have much smoke aromas that the western isles malts have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Just got a email from my local liquor store here in Quincy that is doing a Scotch tasting this Thursday. Here's the line-up...

    Johnnie Walker Blue
    Dalwhinnie 15 YR
    Auchentoshan Three Wood
    Glenmorangie Tusail
    Bowmore 12
    Lagavulin 16 YR
    Laphroaig Cask Strength
    Ardbeg Perpetum
    Ardbeg Dark Cove

    Looks pretty good, I think I'm going to go. It will be interesting to put some of these side by side to see the differences. Anyone have any thoughts on any of these?

    Bill
    That is a nice grouping. I would go. Make sure to taste the Tusail. It was a limited edition that was widely praised and uses Maris Otter barley.

    I have had the Blue. You can be the judge but it’s the most expensive scotch on that list by a long shot. I didn’t think it was all that. Around these parts, the Blue Label is a ultimate status symbol for those who don’t know scotch to impress others who don’t know scotch.
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  16. #216
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    BTW - I was at a scotch and cigar bar in San Francisco. Great little place. Expensive as hell, but fun - and the bar maid really, really knew her stuff. Very impressive.

    Except for one thing ... I had an argument with her about something that others have argued as well:

    Is there a difference between smoky and peaty?

    I maintain that the 2 are VERY different. Almost everyone else I've spoken to says they're the same thing.

    Perhaps it would make a difference if people knew the smell and feel of raw peat, vs smoked peat..?

    Your thoughts?
    I admit not knowing the process well enough to comment on that level, but Perhaps it’s not a matter of it being two different things as much as the level of smoke you get from the peat.

    For me, Ardbeg, Laphroaig, Kilchoman, Port Charlotte, are peaty with low smoke. Whereas Lagavulin, Bowmore, Talisker, etc. are higher in smoky content.

    But much of my feelings on taste profiles comes from my own experiences as opposed to real industry knowledge. I wouldn’t mind attending an advanced type class that really explained what you’re tasting.
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  17. #217
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I think smoky and peaty are 2 different things, but oftentimes a whisky will be both, and then the degree to which the flavor profile is one or the other distinguishes how the whisky is characterized, in large part.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Just got a email from my local liquor store here in Quincy that is doing a Scotch tasting this Thursday. Here's the line-up...

    Johnnie Walker Blue
    Dalwhinnie 15 YR
    Auchentoshan Three Wood
    Glenmorangie Tusail

    Bowmore 12
    Lagavulin 16 YR
    Laphroaig Cask Strength
    Ardbeg Perpetum
    Ardbeg Dark Cove

    Looks pretty good, I think I'm going to go. It will be interesting to put some of these side by side to see the differences. Anyone have any thoughts on any of these?

    Bill
    Bill, what store is that? I might like to go. Sounds like a great lineup.
    Lou

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  19. #219
    Wow, thanks for all the feedback folks! As I've said before, my tastes tend to run toward the "nectary" side, but my wife likes the "peatier" malts. I'm going to ask them to give me the nectary stuff first before I get into the really heavy things that tend to overwhelm my palette.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Make sure to taste the Tusail. It was a limited edition that was widely praised and uses Maris Otter barley.
    Cool, I'll pay special attention to this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I have had the Blue. You can be the judge but itís the most expensive scotch on that list by a long shot. I didnít think it was all that. Around these parts, the Blue Label is a ultimate status symbol for those who donít know scotch to impress others who donít know scotch.
    Totally! When my wife and I were going to Korea we were told that some of her business partners might dig out the JW Blue to impress us, but that they didn't know a thing about Scotch and never drink it themselves. I'm not certain that's totally true, but I do sense there's a certain "hype" around JW Blue. As an aside, we got no JW Blue on our visit, but got treated to some fantastic meals, and plenty of beer and Soju, which they drink in asounding quantities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
    Bill, what store is that? I might like to go. Sounds like a great lineup.
    Wollaston Wine & Spirits, 58 Beale Street, Quincy, MA 02170. http://www.wollastonwines.com/. If you go, tell me what time you'll be there and maybe we can connect!

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    Is there a difference between smoky and peaty?

    I maintain that the 2 are VERY different. Almost everyone else I've spoken to says they're the same thing.
    I think there are a couple of factors. From my distillery tour last year, I learned that the barley is toasted, or smoked, over a fire. Traditionally that fire was stoked by peat, but it could in theory be stoked by anything. Here is a picture of the old furnace with the last of the peat left in it:

    249.jpg

    The barley is toasted above the smoke from this peat, and the longer you toast it, the more "toasty" it winds up tasting. We were given two jars to smell, one with un-toasted barley, and one with toasted. Even at this very early stage, you could smell the characteristics of Whiskey in the toasted jar. The particular distillery we visited, Glen Garioch, toasts very lightly, and I don't believe they use peat anymore (they have a new furnace for toasting and no longer use the old furnace). So their malt is lighter, typical of Speyside, which they are near. But increasing the time over the smoke would definitely increase it's "smoky" flavor.

    Now the question becomes whether the fire is stoked by peat or not, and whether you think that the barley will pick up the characteristics of the peat if that is being used to stoke the fire. I haven't tasted enough whiskeys to know. My sense is that the "peatiest" malts are both the smokiest (i.e. have been over the smoke longest) and use peat for the fire. But you might be able get very close to that taste not using peat for the fire. So in that sense, smoky and peaty are largely the same, but those that use peat for the fire may have certain characteristics others do not.

    I'll ask this question at the tasting, I'm sure they'll have the definitive answer. I might ask them what Prog is as well, just to get that cleared up.

    Bill

  20. #220
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Totally! When my wife and I were going to Korea we were told that some of her business partners might dig out the JW Blue to impress us, but that they didn't know a thing about Scotch and never drink it themselves. I'm not certain that's totally true, but I do sense there's a certain "hype" around JW Blue. As an aside, we got no JW Blue on our visit, but got treated to some fantastic meals, and plenty of beer and Soju, which they drink in asounding quantities.

    Wollaston Wine & Spirits, 58 Beale Street, Quincy, MA 02170. http://www.wollastonwines.com/. If you go, tell me what time you'll be there and maybe we can connect!
    Hi, Bill,

    My son lives and works in Myanmar and he says the same thing. JW Blue is regarded as some sort of holy firewater, and business is transacted with a bottle nearby. He mentioned, also, they have a drink similar to Soju that is used almost exclusively for getting drunk. Other than that, it has no color and tastes hideously; he brought some home on his last visit.

    I'll see what she-who-must-be-obeyed has planned for tomorrow before I know. I'll be a year shy of senior citizenship tomorrow and she may have something in the works. I'll be taking the day off, so there may be time to attend.
    Lou

    Mr. Bruno's wardrobe furnished by Botany 500.

  21. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
    Hi, Bill,

    My son lives and works in Myanmar and he says the same thing. JW Blue is regarded as some sort of holy firewater, and business is transacted with a bottle nearby. He mentioned, also, they have a drink similar to Soju that is used almost exclusively for getting drunk. Other than that, it has no color and tastes hideously; he brought some home on his last visit.
    Gawd help me, but I actually like Soju. The Koreans make what is called a beer bomb, which is beer with about an ounce of Soju in it. With the right kind of beer (basically a Pilsner-style) it can be quite refreshing in the summer. I'm sure they do something similar in Myanmar. Alone, Soju is a little raw, but you get used to it if it's the only game in town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
    I'll see what she-who-must-be-obeyed has planned for tomorrow before I know. I'll be a year shy of senior citizenship tomorrow and she may have something in the works. I'll be taking the day off, so there may be time to attend.
    Cool! I had forgotten we have dinner plans tomorrow, so I'll likely go early. It starts at 5 PM, so that's when I'll probably be there. Let me know if you wind up going and if it's in that timeframe, it would be great to see you. And happy birthday!!

    Bill

  22. #222
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I admit not knowing the process well enough to comment on that level, but Perhaps it’s not a matter of it being two different things as much as the level of smoke you get from the peat.

    For me, Ardbeg, Laphroaig, Kilchoman, Port Charlotte, are peaty with low smoke. Whereas Lagavulin, Bowmore, Talisker, etc. are higher in smoky content.

    But much of my feelings on taste profiles comes from my own experiences as opposed to real industry knowledge. I wouldn’t mind attending an advanced type class that really explained what you’re tasting.
    It's amazing how our palates can differ... I'd say the exact opposite... the/your first two (haven't tasted the next two) are definitely smokier to my palate than your latter three.

    If I can still remember from my tour of the Fiddich distillery in the mid 80's, it's partly a matter of how you place your burning peat under the barley to be germinated (or how you place the barley above the pear) and how the smoke comes in contact with it.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  23. #223
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Yes, perhaps it’s difficult to describe, but the flavor profile map helps in visualizing the difference. I wouldn’t personally spdescribe Lagavulin as “more rich” than Laphroaig, but I would say it’s heavier on the smoke.

    But either way, the map separates Ardbeg and Laphroaig from Lagavulin.

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  24. #224
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    This taste map is a little more complete than the one posted on page 2 of the old group thread. (it includes a few Japanese malts too)

    However there was another one posted in the PE2.0 thread (can't find it anymore, is it still available?) that seemed to be interactive - you could click on the malt and the hyperlink would lead you towards a more sold description;

    On top of it, I remember a similar taste map where the external vertical and horizontal axis also had description.
    If memory serves,
    the top right hand corner was described as "peaty",
    the top left hand as "medicinal",
    the bottom left hand was "floral"
    and the bottom right corner as "fruity"

    And the single malts closest to the bottom right corer were the Auchentoshan Three Woods and a Glengoyne, (which I still have to find) ... needless to say that my preference goes to the bootom right corner.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  25. #225
    Hey, thanks for posting that map. It gives this Auchentofan some things to try!
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