Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: Zappa-Little Dots and Chicago '78

  1. #1

    Zappa-Little Dots and Chicago '78

    I have several posthumous FZ releases but not all. I am rather picky on which ones I get. What's the opinion on these two? Are they must haves or just solid FZ releases.

    Bill
    She'll be standing on the bar soon
    With a fish head and a harpoon
    and a fake beard plastered on her brow.

  2. #2
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    402
    Before answering the question we should know your perspective, i.e. which of the earlier ones you consider must-haves.
    Last edited by Jay.Dee; 02-16-2017 at 08:35 AM.

  3. #3
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    402
    I think they're both fantastic. But I have no idea what you're picky about.

  4. #4
    Little dots is the fellow released to Imaginary Diseases and presents live recordings by the famous Petit Wazoo group recorded live in November and December 1972. The musicians have been part of the short lived Grand Wazoo orchestra, that did only a couple of shows in September 1972, The only newcomer being Gary Barone who replaced Sal Marquez on trumpet. Contrary to the Grand Wazoo this 10 piece band had never recorded any studio material and a bigger part of the tracks are extended jams with various solos, the major exception is the complete 3 part version of Rollo, which Zappa never played live again, an interesting composition that would partly reappear later in Greggery Peccary.

    The early version of Cosmic Debris is interesting for historical reasons but there are a couple of far more interesting versions. The Kansas City Shuffle appeared in another form already on Imaginary Diseases and is quite funny with Zappa asking the audience in the middle of the song in which style they wanted the track to end , the audience choosing a boogie. The major part of the CD is taken by the last track recorded in Columbia SC and the story of the concert is told by Malcom Mc Nabb in the liner notes: drummer Jim Gordon and trumpet player Gary Barone were arrested backstage by the police shortly before the concert for drug possession leaving the band to play without these two musicians.

    The support act having been Tim Buckley, Zappa asked his drummer Maury Baker to sit in with the band, which for obvious reasons reduced the material to non written impros. Zappa announced the situation to, the audience (not mentioning drugs so) in the beginning and I must say the result is rather good , surely linked to the drumming skills of Maury Baker. Especially the second longer part, an extended jam does not get boring and contains a good solo by Zappa and some dynamic riffing by the brass section.

    I haven't got yet Chicago 78 , but from all releases after Zappas death I prefer the complete concert recordings. Philly 76 is one of my favorite.
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  5. #5
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    402
    I have not heard Chicago '78 either yet, but out of the official live archival releases this would be my top ten of the 60s/70s so far:

    1. Road Tapes #2 '73
    2. Wazoo '72
    3. Carnegie Hall '71
    4. Token of His Extreme '74
    5. Little Dots '72
    6. Hammersmith Odeon '78
    7. Imaginary Diseases '72
    8. FZ: OZ '76
    9. Road Tapes #1 '68
    10. Philly '76

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    I have not heard Chicago '78 either yet, but out of the official live archival releases this would be my top ten of the 60s/70s so far:

    1. Road Tapes #2 '73
    2. Wazoo '72
    3. Carnegie Hall '71
    4. Token of His Extreme '74
    5. Little Dots '72
    6. Hammersmith Odeon '78
    7. Imaginary Diseases '72
    8. FZ: OZ '76
    9. Road Tapes #1 '68
    10. Philly '76
    More or less my favorite too with different ratings, I love the R&B vibes of the late 76 touring band and its a pitty that lady Bianca didn't stayed in the band for longer and I would add 'Joe's Camouflage' 'the summer 75 touring rehearsals/ sound is not too great so)
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  7. #7
    My pick is Chicago '78. Great sound, great FZ guitar, and an enjoyable show. Little Dots has it moments, but too much so so jamming and noodling for my taste. The first installment entitled Imaginary Diseases has more to offer compositionally. But you might want to consider the excellent Hammersmith Odeon 1978 3 disc set if it gets a general release, and I've heard that's the word for March of this year.

    Both Chicago '78, and Crux Of The Biscuit feature the Yellow Snow Suite, and the one to hear is the Sidney '73 performance on Crux w/ JL Ponty and company.

  8. #8
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    I think they're both fantastic. But I have no idea what you're picky about.
    I can't speak for the Admiral, but at least one of the Joe's-whatevers has crappy sound quality. The clips I heard discouraged me from picking it up.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I can't speak for the Admiral, but at least one of the Joe's-whatevers has crappy sound quality. The clips I heard discouraged me from picking it up.
    Its Joes Camouflage, band rehearsals recorded on a portable 4 Track by Denny Walley, but its the only document for this particular band and interesting compositions that appear nowhere else.
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  10. #10
    The eons are closing
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    3,640
    Must buy Carnegie Hall and Wazoo
    Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit

  11. #11
    Buffalo '80 is becoming a fav

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Out of his Posthumous releases, this is what I have:

    Civilization Phaze III
    The Lost Episodes
    Frank Zappa Plays the Music of Frank Zappa: A Memorial Tribute
    Mystery Disc
    Everything Is Healing Nicely
    FZ : OZ
    Halloween
    QuAUDIOPHILIAc
    Imaginary Diseases
    Trance-Fusion
    The Dub Room Special!
    Wazoo
    Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison
    Finer Moments
    Dance Me This
    Roxy The Soundtrack
    Beat the Boots Vol. 3

    I have tended to avoid the Joe's releases. I don't particularly need every live show he has put out but the ones of superior quality are of interest.

    Bill
    She'll be standing on the bar soon
    With a fish head and a harpoon
    and a fake beard plastered on her brow.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MudShark22 View Post
    Must buy Carnegie Hall and Wazoo
    While I like the songs and performance on the Carnegie release, the sound quality really seems like crap to me. Wazoo is great for the most part but I like Imaginary Diseases even more. Haven't picked up Little Dots or Chicago 78 yet but they both sound like worthwhile purchases from the comments here.

  14. #14
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Frownland
    Posts
    2,394
    Little Dots is essential if you like Zappa is jazz/rock mode.

    78 isn't my favorite period for FZ, but it's recorded and played very well throughout and I'm glad I own it (even though I probably won't play it all that often).
    Please don't ask questions, just use google.

    Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.

    I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard View Post
    Its Joes Camouflage, band rehearsals recorded on a portable 4 Track by Denny Walley, but its the only document for this particular band and interesting compositions that appear nowhere else.
    That has passable sound. The worst sounding is Joe's Domage, but if you are a fan of the 1972 studio albums it is a document of the rehearsal process with some of the music sounding quite different from the familiar versions.

  16. #16
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Past
    Posts
    1,900
    Unfortunately, I can't recommend Little Dots. It's exhibit "A" for Uncle Frank's worst instincts toward endless noodling; he simply doesn't have the ideas to sustain his extended solos.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  17. #17
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    402
    ... or in other words: if you are a fan of Uncle Frank's guitar noodling (or happy brass-rock live jamming in general), Little Dots is your best pick. I'm lovin' it!

  18. #18
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    I think they're both fantastic. But I have no idea what you're picky about.
    +1 --- Worth every fucking second if you like Zappa.

  19. #19
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Buffalo '80 is becoming a fav

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
    THIS. I wore it out years back - but it's coming around again.

  20. #20
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    402
    OK, so I finally purchased and gave a serious listening to the Chicago '78 release.

    The first disc is Zappa in his late 70s soul/funk mode, playing at a rather leisurely pace. Nothing groundbreaking, just a professional rock performance, as mainstream as Zappa could get.

    The second set has some of Zappa at his proggiest, well crafted with intricate ensemble arrangements, thin on instrumental improvs/noodling, stately executed, even duly pompous at times (except for lyrics and banter of course).

    All in all, not my favourite side of Frank, but enjoyable overall. It may be of interest for those who dig classic rock of the late 70s, and classic prog of that period in particular. You won't get your meat&potatoes rock/prog served more professionally elsewhere.
    Last edited by Jay.Dee; 03-13-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  21. #21
    Plus Frank's guitar tone/playing on Chicago '78 is off the charts fantastic. I dig it a lot!

  22. #22
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by mkeneally View Post
    Plus Frank's guitar tone/playing on Chicago '78 is off the charts fantastic. I dig it a lot!
    ^ THIS

  23. #23
    One Shot Deal

    What do you guys think of this one?

  24. #24
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim35 View Post
    One Shot Deal

    What do you guys think of this one?
    Fantastic. Travers did an amazing job.

  25. #25

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •