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Thread: Donald Fagen/Steely Dan: I think it counts as prog

  1. #26
    Progstreaming-webmaster Sunhillow's Avatar
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    For me:

    The Royal Scam
    The Nightfly
    Katy Lied

    But no. 3 is actually on par with Countdown, Pretzel, Gaucho, Aja. And no. 4 would then be Can't Buy A Thrill, with all the rest as a shared number 5. I've just downloaded the two Walter Becker-albums, which do sound quite nice actually, but I haven't made up my mind.

  2. #27
    I've been a fan since "Haitian Divorce" hit the UK charts. Truly original and virtually uncategorisable, if that is indeed a word.

  3. #28
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    My six favorites:

    Royal Scam
    Aja
    Katy Lied
    Pretzel Logic
    Gaucho
    The Nightfly (which is a Donald Fagen album, but it's up there with SD's best)

    I never thought of them as a prog band, but does it matter? Aja (the song) is probably the closest they ever came to something that I'd consider to be prog.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    Honestly, Countdown to Ecstasy is indispensable Dan for me.
    Same with me bro! I love this album, probably the most "progressive" sounding of the bunch.
    Be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn't care... Frank Zappa

  5. #30
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    As for what The Dan are, I've always thought of them as "Pop-Fusion".

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb
    I'm listening a lot to Morph the Cat these days and love that one! Maybe my favorite of his solo stuff.
    I really liked MtC... much more so than his previous two.

    Quote Originally Posted by izz_brian
    Very "Wynton" of them, IMHO.


    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000
    I only have Aja, so would be happy to see some lists of people's top three or five SD or solo albums.
    Must haves:
    Countdown to Ecstasy (count me as another who considers this his fave)
    Royal Scam (an extremely close second)
    Aja (objectively speaking, this is their best)
    Morph the Cat (an excellent solo album that exceeds most of SD's output; call it Fagen's Fish Out of Water )

    More Than Worth the Money:
    Can't Buy a Thrill
    Pretzel Logic
    Katy Lied
    Two Against Nature
    Nightfly
    Kamakiriad

    Wouldn't Kill You If You Never Heard It:
    Everything Must Go (although, there are three excellent songs on this album that are every bit as good as just about anything they've done:
    GodWhacker, Green Book, & Lunch With Gina)

    A Bit of a Dud:
    Gaucho (although, one of their very best songs, Babylon Sisters, is on this album)
    [Disclaimer: apparently, I'm the only one in the world who feels this way]

  6. #31
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Did you ever play the new one? I provided you with a streaming link, it would have been easy.....

  7. #32
    Not sure if it's "prog" or not, but Aja was one of the first non-prog albums that really blew my mind after 3 or 4 years or non stop Genesis/Floyd/Yes etc. And it was my pathway into jazz now I think of it. Just ridiculous levels of awesomeness in all of the Dan albums, but gradually over the years Gaucho has emerged as my top album...and for years it was my LEAST favourite!!

    And yeah, Sunken Condos is still maintaining the level for me

    Matt.

  8. #33
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    If I had to rank them:

    Aja
    Countdown to Ecstacy
    Katy Lied
    Pretzel Logic
    Can't Buy a Thrill
    Royal Scam
    Two Against Nature
    Gaucho
    Everything Must Go

    That said, even the bottom albums get played now and then. Nothing they have recorded is worth ignoring.

    NP: Miss Marlene - sweet guitar work on this song
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  9. #34
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Whenever SD threads pop up, lists of fave albums usually follow and it seems Katy Lied makes the top 3 or 4 of most people's lists. I don't understand.

    Granted, side 1 starts off really strong with "Black Friday" and "Bad Sneakers", hits a lull with "Rose Darling", but then finishes strong with "Daddy" and one of SD's absolute best: "Dr Wu".

    But side 2... I just think the album falls apart:
    "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" is a good song, musically, but after a few listens, when the tongue-in-cheek humor of the lyrics becomes stale, they leave me with a bad taste (as a "bookend" to this song, "Janie Runaway" from Two Against Nature is far superior, lyrically).
    I should love "Your Gold Teeth II" but I don't. It's too slick and polished. Jeff Porcaro tears it up, on this song, but he almost sounds out of place... because he's too good.
    And I feel mostly the same about "Chain Lightning".
    "Any World (That I'm Welcome To)" is a good song, but always kinda felt like a pale imitation of "Bad Sneakers" or "Dr Wu" to me.
    Finally, I find "Throw Back the Little Ones" irrelevant. Its whimsy, if you could call it as such, is lost on me.

    Defenders, what say you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Did you ever play the new one? I provided you with a streaming link, it would have been easy.....
    I know.

    And no.

    I really appreciate you sending me the link, Sean. I just don't know why I haven't gotten around to listening to it.

    I take that back. I do know why. Yes, Morph the Cat is an excellent album, but I don't feel the same about DF's previous two albums nor about EMG, so maybe I'm a little gun shy?

    How's this: I'm lame.

  10. #35
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    "Any World (That I'm Welcome To)" is a good song, but always kinda felt like a pale imitation of "Bad Sneakers" or "Dr Wu" to me.
    Pistols at dawn, sirrah! That's one of my all-time favorites. Listen to the goddamn bridge. Fagen's character is just hanging on by his fingernails but he STILL BELIEVES. I find that song an incredible affirmation of life.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  11. #36
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    I wonder what cobalt cigs taste like?

    My 3 all-time favorite rock/pop groups: Steely Dan, The Who, Love

    My 5 favorite SD songs (ranked).

    1. Don't Take Me Alive
    2. King Of The World
    3. Any World
    4. Reelin' (any song that still does it for me after 10,000 listens......)
    5.The Royal Scam

    The preceding has been completely irrelevant.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  12. #37
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Pistols at dawn, sirrah!
    Why wait 'til dawn?

    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer
    My 5 favorite SD songs (ranked)
    If I could pick 5 I'd rank the first four:

    1. Tie: Your Gold Teeth/Show Biz Kids
    3. Tie: Do It Again/The Royal Scam

    And then I'd have to pick only one from this list:

    Only A Fool Would Say That
    Razor Boy
    Boston Rag
    Night by Night
    Charlie Freak
    Dr Wu
    Black Cow
    Aja
    FM
    Babylon Sisters
    Janie Runaway
    Jack of Speed
    Lunch With Gina (I know this is a frivolous song, but I love it)

    I can't do it.

  13. #38
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    It's so hard to pick just a few songs from the treasure trove that I forgot about "Boston Rag" , which I had mentioned earlier in this thread as one of my top 5. Must have been a different day.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  14. #39
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    Don't Take Me Alive
    I love the way that song kicks in, just great electric guitar.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  15. #40
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    Too smug for me.

    Maybe that makes them 'smog'?

  16. #41
    The Donald will be on David Letterman's Late Show this Thursday / Friday; musical guests typically come on around 12:25ish am est. As he is performing with the Dukes of September on Friday at Lincoln Center, there is a chance that Boz Scaggs and/or Michael McDonald joins him. TV listing is just Fagen. Good chance he sits in with Paul and the band all show too.

    For me-
    Dr. Wu
    Aja
    Royal Scam
    Green Earrings
    Home At Last
    Night By Night
    Deacon Blues
    Kings
    Rikki
    "I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about."
    - Peter Griffin ("Family Guy")

  17. #42
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    The Donald will be on David Letterman's Late Show this Thursday / Friday
    WOW! <off to set the DVR>

  18. #43
    nope not prog but smart jazz pop rock fusion. wonderful stuff , my fave would be royal scam, then katy lied then pretzel logic, then aja, then countdown to ecstasy then the debut then gaucho.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    A Bit of a Dud:
    Gaucho (although, one of their very best songs, Babylon Sisters, is on this album)
    [Disclaimer: apparently, I'm the only one in the world who feels this way]
    Not the only one. Count me as another long-term SD fan who is mystified at the love Gaucho generates. I wholeheartedly agree about the magnificent Babylon Sisters and I enjoy both the pop perfection of Hey Nineteen and the quirkiness of the title track but, for me, the rest of the album is somewhat forgettable.
    This is my ordering of the SD catalogue from best to least best -

    Two Against Nature (sue me)
    The Royal Scam/Pretzel Logic
    Aja
    Countdown To Ecstasy
    Katy Lied/Everything Must Go
    Can't Buy A Thrill
    Gaucho

    SD must be prog because no-one has suggested this thread be moved off the main board!

    Geoff
    "One should never magnify the harsh light of reality with the mirror of prose onto the delicate wings of fantasy's butterfly"
    Thumpermonkey - How I Wrote The French Lieutenant's Woman

    "I'm content to listen to what I like and keep my useless negative opinions about what I don't like to myself -- because no one is interested in hearing those anyway, and it contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation."
    aith01

  20. #45
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    I don't care if Steely Dan is prog or not.
    I like it - my only criteria
    Compact Disk brought high fidelity to the masses and audiophiles will never forgive it for that

  21. #46
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    Two Against Nature (sue me)
    Not at all. I think TAN is very underrated; at least, around here. For me, tho, sometimes the drums can grate on my nerves (they often sound too much like a machine). I wish the rhythm section had been played/mixed like on Everything Must Go. Had TAN been produced and mixed like EMG, I might have ranked it as high as 3rd or even 2nd.

    I guess my main complaint with TAN is that it mostly feels a little anemic musically. That and Walter solos too much.

    Anyway, I think TAN might be their best album, lyrically speaking; definitely their most mature (I might have said "until EMG" but I was so disappointed with that album I only listened to it two or three times before I gave up). What A Shame About Me, Two Against Nature, Janie Runaway, Almost Gothic, Jack Of Speed, and Negative Girl all have fantastic lyrics. Indeed, while they have always been well above par for a "rock band", some of the lines and passages on this album blow me away:

    He's a one way rider on the shriek express
    And his new best friend is at the throttle more or less

    That's just fuckin' awesome.

    And while they often had humorous lyrics before, none of them actually made me laugh out loud like this:

    Let's plan a weekend alone together
    Drive out to Binky's place
    The sugar shack in Pennsylvania
    Or would that be a federal case?
    We'll take Big Red - the Blazer - it's nice inside
    And guess who's coming along for the ride

    Who has a friend named Melanie?
    Who's not afraid to try new things?
    Who gets to spend her birthday in Spain?
    Possibly you - Janie Runaway

    Still makes me laugh!

    And how about this from the title track:

    Madame Erzulie she come last night
    Bang you silly but leave a nasty bite
    There on your nightstand much worse than that
    Panatela and old black derby hat

    Humorously brilliant.


    So what did you think of Fagen's Morph the Cat? I thought it was excellent; better than The Nightfly and Kamakiriad combined!

  22. #47
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Remember

    "Bobby Dakine won the Bunsen Prize
    Now he's coming out with something new"

    Well now his relative is mentioned in a track on the new cd, he's a bit of a collector of atomic related memorabilia...

    "Have you seen the memorabilia?
    The dusty old memorabilia
    Have you seen the memorabilia?
    Souvenirs of perfect doom,
    In the back of Louis Dakine's back room."

    Both fictional, I would guess...



    PS- You'll like the vibe of the drums on this new CD.

  23. #48
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    So what did you think of Fagen's Morph the Cat? I thought it was excellent; better than The Nightfly and Kamakiriad combined!
    Agreed, although the two "hits" on Nightfly remain two of my faves.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  24. #49
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I guess my main complaint with TAN is that it mostly feels a little anemic musically. That and Walter solos too much.
    Yes, this was my problem too. To me, it had none of the musical feel of their 70s albums. Way too safe and predictable -particularly the drums which were just dull and flaccid to my ears. Some good melodies and good lyrics, but that wasn't enough to save it for me. I really wanted to like this, but it just made me sad every time I listened to it, so out it went.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    So what did you think of Fagen's Morph the Cat? I thought it was excellent; better than The Nightfly and Kamakiriad combined!
    Haven't heard Morph, based on this thread I may try it out.

    Bill

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    I only have Aja, so would be happy to see some lists of people's top three or five SD or solo albums.
    You can get all their '70s output in the "Citizen Steely Dan" box set. Totally worth it. I picked up a copy at a used record store for about $25. Just had it on in the car today!

    I was a casual fan of the Dan until I heard the Morse-Portnoy-George cover of "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" earlier this year. For some reason, the song clicked with me in a way it never had before, and I really got into SD after that. The box set was the easiest way to grab most everything (I still don't have the two newer albums), and every time I put in a disc, it seems I find another song that starts to reveal its awesomeness to me. Such great musicianship and witty lyrics. Incredible band. I'd never consider them prog -- more like sophisticated pop -- but I love them just the same.

    Also picked up all of Fagen's solo albums a couple of weeks ago. Haven't had enough time to give them a fair listen yet, but I like what I've heard.

    Favorite Dan songs (limiting myself to 20!):

    Aja
    Do It Again
    Hey Nineteen
    Rikki Don't Lose That Number
    Peg
    Deacon Blues
    Only a Fool Would Say That
    Don't Take Me Alive
    FM
    Midnite Cruiser
    Reelin' in the Years
    Green Earrings
    Any Major Dude Will Tell You
    Black Cow
    Here at the Western World
    Any World That I'm Welcome To
    Josie
    The Fez
    Your Gold Teeth
    King of the World
    Last edited by Adrian; 11-26-2012 at 02:51 AM.

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