Ok, what's so great about... Steely Dan?

[Jerjo]

Nothing says 70s college days like the vision of a young woman wearing a your best cotton dress shirt (because it's so comfortable) and very little else, swaying around your dorm room while "My Old School" is playing.

[No Pride]

Are you his lawyer?

Taste and appreciation have absolutely nothing to do with accessibility and gratification. It's all in the way the music hits ya. There's no accounting for tastes, as they say. (What exactly did you think that phrase means?????)

Lastly - not all musicians are intelligent enough to appreciate "complex and challenging" music.

"They were smoked" means that jazzers in general play more complex and challenging music than the likes of Steely Dan and bands of that ilk. I can't go back and ask many of the people in jazz bands back in the 70s what they thought of Steely Dan.

What does Becker and Fagen being HUGE jazz fans have to do with the price of tea in China? If only that were enough to make one great at something

I'll reply once before stepping away from this debate and giving myself a lecture about feeding trolls.

You are right that not all musicians appreciate complex and challenging music, though that has nothing to do with their intelligence or lack thereof. And that's fine, but they're not the ones we're talking about.

I mentioned a SD cover band that I've played with. Every member of that band (and the subs they send when they can't make a gig) are professional musicians and (with the possible exception of the singers) accomplished jazz players. Most of them know practically every tune from the Great American Songbook as well as a bunch of Shorter, Hancock, Corea, Coltrane, Parker, Silver, Golson, etc. tunes. Playing with this band isn't a paying gig; if you're lucky, you'll make $50. Musicians of this ilk won't take low pay gigs unless it's going to be fun musically. I'm not about to go Googling a bunch of famous jazz players and seeing what accolades they have for SD; you'll just have to trust me (or not), there's a lot of respect for them within the jazz world.

What Becker and Fagen being jazz fans has to do with the tea in China is that they are musicians who understand, have learned from and are highly influenced by the music. Of course they have other influences like pop, blues and r&b, all of which figures prominently in the musical hybrid they create.

You clearly don't think SD are "all that" and that's fine. But you're not going to convince those of us that are fans that we've been somehow mislead.

[progeezer]

A++ for restraint, Mr. D!

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

[musicislife]

A++ for restraint, Mr. D!

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Define the word "troll" appropriately. One who has an opinion which doesn't match up to the 5 people here touting Steely Dan as the second coming (very strange for a prog board, btw) is not one. Trust me, I know my shit. There's something wrong with jazz not getting the love it deserves and the Dan being called sophisticated. Puhleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssse.

[musicislife]

I'll reply once before stepping away from this debate and giving myself a lecture about feeding trolls.

You are right that not all musicians appreciate complex and challenging music, though that has nothing to do with their intelligence or lack thereof. And that's fine, but they're not the ones we're talking about.

I mentioned a SD cover band that I've played with. Every member of that band (and the subs they send when they can't make a gig) are professional musicians and (with the possible exception of the singers) accomplished jazz players. Most of them know practically every tune from the Great American Songbook as well as a bunch of Shorter, Hancock, Corea, Coltrane, Parker, Silver, Golson, etc. tunes. Playing with this band isn't a paying gig; if you're lucky, you'll make $50. Musicians of this ilk won't take low pay gigs unless it's going to be fun musically. I'm not about to go Googling a bunch of famous jazz players and seeing what accolades they have for SD; you'll just have to trust me (or not), there's a lot of respect for them within the jazz world.

What Becker and Fagen being jazz fans has to do with the tea in China is that they are musicians who understand, have learned from and are highly influenced by the music. Of course they have other influences like pop, blues and r&b, all of which figures prominently in the musical hybrid they create.

You clearly don't think SD are "all that" and that's fine. But you're not going to convince those of us that are fans that we've been somehow mislead.

I've got news for you - the Great American Songbook hasn't been highly used in practice in jazz for at least 4 decades. And having heard "a bunch of" those artists does not make one a jazz artist, nor does it make one knowledgeable about jazz. For what it's worth, I'm not a musician, and I know ALL OF the output those particular artists plus many, many more. And again, you've managed to mention the respect for SD that comes from the jazz world without naming names.

I'm not trying to convince anybody of everything. Just laughing at all the fawning is all.

[No Pride]

I've got news for you - the Great American Songbook hasn't been highly used in practice in jazz for at least 4 decades. And having heard "a bunch of" those artists does not make one a jazz artist, nor does it make one knowledgeable about jazz.

When I said "know" those tunes, I meant know how to play and improvise over them.

And there are plenty of jazz artists who still play American Songbook tunes, even modern players who write their own stuff play them. Last time I was in NYC, I went to The Village Vanguard and heard Kurt Rosenwinkle's Standards Trio and that's almost all they played.

[klothos]

Last time I was in NYC, I went to The Village Vanguard and heard Kurt Rosenwinkle's Standards Trio and that's almost all they played.

yay - Blue Bossa all night long? Is it true?



j/k ernie

[progeezer]

Trust me, I know my shit. There's something wrong with jazz not getting the love it deserves and the Dan being called sophisticated. Puhleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssse.

"Trust me, I know my shit". Hmmm...sounds like a certain neophyte world leader.

If you can comment that jazz doesn't get much love on this site, then you're obviously commenting before doing much research. Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeze (just to clarify to avoid more TROLLING, I spelled mine phonetically without aaaaaa).

There is a wide chasm between disagreeing and disparaging. There IS such a thing as virtual people skills too.

[Baribrotzer]

There is a wide chasm between disagreeing and disparaging.

And there's a wide chasm between losing and winning. And if you care about crap like the "wide chasm between disagreeing and disparaging", you obviously don't know how to WIN. Loser.

There IS such a thing as virtual people skills too.

Obsolete and ppointless. What's wrong with winning so much you get tired of winning? But of course you don't know how to WIN, or even want to. Loser.

...sounds like a certain neophyte world leader.

LIBTARD!!!! I knew it! Just die and get out of the way! It's nort your country anymore! It's nort your woldr anymore! IT'S MINE! MINE! MINE! LOSER!!!!!









(Interesting. I was trying to parody a troll, and wound up accurately duplicating [in my opinion] one particular Twitter feed)

[Gruno]

I'll reply once before stepping away from this debate and giving myself a lecture about feeding trolls.

A++ for restraint, Mr. D!

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

[musicislife]

There IS such a thing as virtual people skills too.

Not here.

[musicislife]

This common internet meme makes you laugh?

[Jerjo]

This common internet meme makes you laugh?

When did JonnyQuest come back to life?

[musicislife]

When I said "know" those tunes, I meant know how to play and improvise over them.

And there are plenty of jazz artists who still play American Songbook tunes, even modern players who write their own stuff play them. Last time I was in NYC, I went to The Village Vanguard and heard Kurt Rosenwinkle's Standards Trio and that's almost all they played.

You know what I meant. The GAS is no longer a main jumping off point for improv in the jazz world. You happened to see one artist who uses it almost exclusively. For that one, there are 100 who don't.

Can we please stop putting Steely Dan or people who can play their music in the strata occupied only by jazz artists???

[musicislife]

When did JonnyQuest come back to life?

Let him answer for his own childishness. I suppose Johnny Quest will be back once Springstone becomes a credible PROG artist.

[Gruno]

This common internet meme makes you laugh?

Not at all. When others call out trolls it gives me such a tingle inside ... mmmmm...

[3LockBox]

Can we please stop putting Steely Dan or people who can play their music in the strata occupied only by jazz artists???

Well the name of thread is "what's so great about ________" No one is saying you have to hold SD to esteem. No one is saying SD is mind-fucking jazz (thank god its not). No one who holds Steely Dan to esteem is wrong though. Call it jazz influenced rock, call it pop if you will, but it's far more sophisticated than you'd like to give it credit for and that's all anyone's saying really.

As far as your exchange with No Pride goes, check out the dude's avatar. That's the cover of a jazz-fusion instrumental album I hold to esteem and No Pride plays on it. Now, if you've played on an such an album that's half as good I'll happily defer to you on the subject of jazz in the future.

[Trane]

If your wife likes Steely Dan then she's an exception to the "Women Don't Like Steely Dan" truism. My wife can't get past Fagen's voice but I don't think she likes the calculated feel of their later material, either.

I've found that a lot of women like Steely Dan. After all, they were on the radio a lot! As far as Fagen's voice goes? I think it's incredible!

I was never under the uimpression Steely Dan was not liked by women... When I was daily subjected to massive SD airplay, I had the impression it wasmostly for women's pleasure (as the dildo name would hint)

Nothing says 70s college days like the vision of a young woman wearing a your best cotton dress shirt (because it's so comfortable) and very little else, swaying around your dorm room while "My Old School" is playing.

Faaaaakkkkk me!!! I can't find my CD-r compilation!! wall.gif

[klothos]

One thing (out of many) I love about them is their chord progressions, always from the road less (or never) traveled.

I missed this post -- Yes, thats actually my favorite thing. Especially when they are written in a progression where select notes of each chord will ascend or descend diatonically or chromatically (sometimes both) as the phrase is played. Love that (Josie, for example)

[klothos]

You know what I meant. The GAS is no longer a main jumping off point for improv in the jazz world. You happened to see one artist who uses it almost exclusively. For that one, there are 100 who don't.

Can we please stop putting Steely Dan or people who can play their music in the strata occupied only by jazz artists???

I dont think anybody is putting them in a category with Mingus or Parker but I believe its erroneous to think that many of the musicians involved with Steely Dan over the years can't hang with "real" jazz players........Just because an artist or musician doesnt do something live or on record certainly doesn't mean they can't

[Obscured]

Full show from 2000 recently posted-

Killer setlist, killer band.

[Polypet]

You know what I meant. The GAS is no longer a main jumping off point for improv in the jazz world. You happened to see one artist who uses it almost exclusively. For that one, there are 100 who don't.

Can we please stop putting Steely Dan or people who can play their music in the strata occupied only by jazz artists???

Apart from the fact that the majority of their players, for most of the band's existance, actually reads like who's who of the top contemporary jazzers in the country, sure. Let's

And there's a wide chasm between losing and winning. And if you care about crap like the "wide chasm between disagreeing and disparaging", you obviously don't know how to WIN. Loser.


Obsolete and ppointless. What's wrong with winning so much you get tired of winning? But of course you don't know how to WIN, or even want to. Loser.

LIBTARD!!!! I knew it! Just die and get out of the way! It's nort your country anymore! It's nort your woldr anymore! IT'S MINE! MINE! MINE! LOSER!!!!!









(Interesting. I was trying to parody a troll, and wound up accurately duplicating [in my opinion] one particular Twitter feed)

That was very realistic - i almost thought your online identity had been somehow compromised

Nicely done

[musicislife]

Apart from the fact that the majority of their players, for most of the band's existance, actually reads like who's who of the top contemporary jazzers in the country, sure. Let's



That was very realistic - i almost thought your online identity had been somehow compromised

Nicely done

Fact? You're off your rocker. Obviously, you have no real knowledge of who the top contemporary jazzers were in the 70s or 80s were. I'll give you Shorter, but he played one solo on one song on one album. Nobody would really consider Gadd a jazzer, and Feldman was never in the upper echelon. Carlton, while a great guitarist, was never considered a purely jazz player. So, who else are we talking about? Hyperbole gets you nowhere. Nobody here in Murica ever saw Steely Dan as the best of the best, and no jazz fans ever considered them jazz. So, please. What we're left with is 2 hippy stoners who happened to meet in bumfuck NY and carved a nice musical career for themselves. Music fans are the kings of hyperbole years after the fact. I see the same thing going on in a Moody Blues thread.

[progeezer]

Kim - I had to PM John to make sure I hadn't lost a friend! Now get back on that rocker!

I did sing 16 bars of Little Anthony & The Imperials "Hurt So Bad" first, John.

[musicislife]

Kim - I had to PM John to make sure I hadn't lost a friend! Now get back on that rocker!

I did sing 16 bars of Little Anthony & The Imperials "Hurt So Bad" first, John.

Now, Steve. Are you REALLY displaying your Sunday best "virtual people skills" here. Taking digs at me without doing it directly. Is that really the example that one should want to set for good behavior on the internet? Heed thine own advice.........one fellow NYC snarky-ass native to another.