Heart - Prog or Not?

[dropforge]

[Jubal]

I heard Bad Company and Heart were offered a co-headlining tour together sponsored by Lipitor™; it was to be called the Bad Heart tour.

You gotta admit, that is funny right there.

[Trane]

^ Well, at least the band had Mark Andes in their ranks. That ought to count for somewhat of a "genre legitimacy", I guess.

that's the SPIRIT (they're in PA )

Seriously?..I think I got redirected to PA.

I'm sure they were proposed a few times before, but I checked (to be extra-sure), they're not in.

But given what's in prog-related, I wouydn't oppose Heart's inclusion

IMHO not. I'd put them in that 'FM rock'/early AOR category of a somewhat easier-to-digest version of the rock bands of the late 60s/early 70s. Led Zeppelin were always the obvious influence in this case.

I don't see what's 'elitist' about finding the concept dubious.

mmmm... Not really... too hard-rocking to be FM/AOR...
Just like Aerosmith is not FM/AOReither.

Better have a listen to Dreamboat Annie and Little Queen again.

That was my firsty throught

and that I'd like to go progressively under their gipsy skirts outfit on the Little Queen album

[JJ88]

^Heart more hard-rocking than Aerosmith? Really?

Please note that I did say 'early AOR'...not as slick as what AOR became later, but still much slicker (IMHO) and obviously radio-friendly than their main influence, Led Zeppelin.

[Trane]

^Heart more hard-rocking than Aerosmith? Really?

Please note that I did say 'early AOR'...not as slick as what AOR became later, but still much slicker (IMHO) and obviously radio-friendly than their main influence, Led Zeppelin.

ooopsie, that didn't come out right!!
I meant to say that they're roughly equally hard-rocking , and I'd probably put in the same bracket the BOC (AoF to Mirrors) and Styx (Equinox to Po8) albums of those years)

But nothing to do with REO Speedwagon type of hard-rock, IMHO

[JJ88]

I'd agree they aren't like REO, but AOR is about as nebulous and hard-to-define as 'prog' is!

[GuitarGeek]

I believe so. Toronto had some cool tunes.

I've really only heard the one song, so I honestly don't know. I just thought it was weird that Heart ended up recording a song written by one of the people in Toronto, for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post.

BTW, I think What About Love one of the songs where Ann Wilson said she thought the vocal was way too whiny sounding on the demo, so when it was determined that they had to do this particular song (and I get the impression she really didn't like having to do other people's songs, in the first place), she intended to put some guts into her delivery.

[GuitarGeek]

It has been a while since I read the Wilson sister’s book (A good read if you are a Heart fan), but the band completely broke up in the mid-90’s when the sisters formed The Love Mongers. Leese joined Paul Rogers’s solo band in the late 90’s. When Heart finally re-formed in the early 00’s, my impression was that he was not asked to return. Again, it has been a while since I read the book so I may be remembering things wrong. Leese is still a member of Rogers solo band when he is not touring with Bad Company.

I can see several different scenarios playing out there. When they did the Behind The Music thing, there was some insinuation that during the 80's "the guys in the band" were giving Ann grief over her weight problems. I think it's Nancy who says they were saying things like, "We'd sell more records if she'd just lose a little weight". Now, they didn't say exactly who was saying these things, but one could theoretically argue that Howard might have been one of the guilty parties in this case (or it could have been Mark Andes or Denny Carmassi, or any combination of the three). So I could see the sisters not wanting to have to deal with that when they reactivated Heart.

Another possibility is they may have figured out they could make more money if they simply hire backup musicians, rather than invite any of the guys who were in past lineups back in.

So who knows what happened.

[Canvas]

I always considered Heart to be occasionally proggy because of guitarist Roger Fisher....I thought he was a fantastic player and has some really great moments on those first couple albums....

[Digital_Man]

[But given what's in prog-related, I wouydn't oppose Heart's inclusion]

Yep, I see no reason these bands can't be in under prog related: The Tubes, The Grateful Dead, Television, Velvet Underground among others.

[Yodelgoat]

Wow, listening to Ann - Crazy on you... Clearly she has dropped a few steps down - cant hit the original higher notes in the song. That is a problem I thought was mostly limited to guys as they get older. She sure has a powerrful voice, but it seems like she is really reaching just to hit the nominal high notes. On the original version she goes at least a 5th higher. I think I hear a little meat shred in her voice too.

The Maestro David Kyle would have never allowed Ann to lose a step like that. (RIP Maestro)

(by the way, Heart isnt prog in my book, they're also a pretty good rock band. Proud to have them in my collection).

[Progmatic]

You don't know what you are missing. Some of the best vocals ever, great musicianship. Melody, Harmony, and Groove. Heart 0 is a loss.

You just described Maddona, Michael Jackson or Eagles ...I do not like them enough to have their albums either

[Svetonio]

^Heart more hard-rocking than Aerosmith? Really?

Please note that I did say 'early AOR'...not as slick as what AOR became later, but still much slicker (IMHO) and obviously radio-friendly than their main influence, Led Zeppelin.

Heart never were regarded as 'early AOR'; they were *Rock* and they were regarded as such.
In the second half of the seventies, as Adult Oriented Rock (AOR) were regarded the albums like The Stranger and 52nd Street by Billy Joel, Red Octopus by Jefferson Starship, Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, Sleeper Catcher by Little River Band, Year of the Cat by Al Stewart, City to City by Gerry Rafferty and so on.

[saucyjackstl]

You just described Maddona, Michael Jackson or Eagles ...I do not like them enough to have their albums either

Yep I get it. If its popular it must suck. Strange argument. Let me know when one of them made something like this and I'll buy it.

[dropforge]

Wow, listening to Ann - Crazy on you... Clearly she has dropped a few steps down - cant hit the original higher notes in the song. That is a problem I thought was mostly limited to guys as they get older. She sure has a powerrful voice, but it seems like she is really reaching just to hit the nominal high notes. On the original version she goes at least a 5th higher. I think I hear a little meat shred in her voice too.

The Maestro David Kyle would have never allowed Ann to lose a step like that. (RIP Maestro)

He would have never allowed her to age?

[Progmatic]

Yep I get it. If its popular it must suck. Strange argument. Let me know when one of them made something like this and I'll buy it.

My argument has nothing to do with Pop music. I may have as well used classical music as an example. The attributes, you used, apply to just about any music worth publishing. Those attributes on their own do not make particular music necessary appealing to a music fan.




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[GuitarGeek]

In the second half of the seventies, as Adult Oriented Rock (AOR) were regarded the albums like The Stranger and 52nd Street by Billy Joel, Red Octopus by Jefferson Starship, Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, Sleeper Catcher by Little River Band, Year of the Cat by Al Stewart, City to City by Gerry Rafferty and so on.

I don't know where this "Adult Oriented Rock" nonsense started from, but that's not what AOR is. What you're describing above is the Adult Contemporary radio format.

AOR stands for "Album Oriented Rock". It evolved out of Progressive Rock radio format. AOR basically dispensed with the freeform element common to early FM stations, and involved instituting a more rigid playlist aimed at greater "commerical appeal" while maintaining the reliance on album tracks, and not just singles.

[Jerjo]

^This!^

[Vic2012]

^and thus.

[Scott Bails]

Yep. That's the way I've always understood it.

[progeezer]

Unlike many here, I'll preface this by saying "imo ymmv".

The biggest major difference between Aerosmith and Heart is that Aerosmith sucks and Heart doesn't.

[SteveSly]

I don't know where this "Adult Oriented Rock" nonsense started from, but that's not what AOR is. What you're describing above is the Adult Contemporary radio format.

AOR stands for "Album Oriented Rock". It evolved out of Progressive Rock radio format. AOR basically dispensed with the freeform element common to early FM stations, and involved instituting a more rigid playlist aimed at greater "commerical appeal" while maintaining the reliance on album tracks, and not just singles.

In the U.S AOR stood for Album Oriented Rock, but I think in some other countries it had a different meaning which may be the discrepancy.

[GuitarGeek]

Unlike many here, I'll preface this by saying "imo ymmv".

The biggest major difference between Aerosmith and Heart is that Aerosmith sucks and Heart doesn't.

Aerosmith were a great band in the 70's. I think everything up to and including Live Bootleg is awesome. But their comeback albums stunk. Just say no to "outside" songwriting contributions.

[GuitarGeek]

In the U.S AOR stood for Album Oriented Rock, but I think in some other countries it had a different meaning which may be the discrepancy.

Perhaps, but I never herad the phrase "Adult Oriented Rock" before I saw it mentioned a few years back on the old PE. I've done a fair amount of reading about the history of rock music, watched documentaries, etc, but I never ever saw anyone talk about "Adult Oriented Rock" anywhere but here. (shrug)

[lak611]

The "lighter" version of album-oriented rock is adult album alternative known as AAA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adul...ve?wprov=sfla1

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