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Thread: Most influential new prog artists

  1. #26
    Änglagård. The whole “new prog” scene could not exist without them.

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  2. #27
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    And I'm not all too conviced that Thinking Plague can be said to have actually derived from anyone in particular; Mike Johnson was always equally as fundamentally influenced by "symph" as by "avant-prog" pioneers, and indeed directly by composers such as Barber, Schumann and Shostakovich. The line towards the Art Bears for instance, is way more obvious in a band like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum than with TP.
    I tend to think the TP link is more direct to those in bold than anything in the prog realm with probably The Beatles thrown in for good measure.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progmatic View Post
    well then you have hard task because Steve Wilson derived his music from Pink Floyd, Hawkwind ...Dream Theatre from King Crimson (Red), Black Sabath...
    Well, obviously, nobody is completely original. But some bands- like Dream Theater for example- manage to create an identifiable sound that isn't exactly like any one of their influences and in turn become, in the totality of their influences, a model for other bands to copy.

    And I dig Watchtower, Atheist, etc., but I don't really hear that influence in any of these modern djent bands. Watchtower etc. is more like technical thrash rather than...whatever the hell Meshuggah is.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Änglagård. The whole “new prog” scene could not exist without them.
    Horseshit.




  5. #30
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Influential? Modern prog? Not many imo. Dream Theater come to mind although they've been around for quite a while.

    The Flower Kings should be mentioned. How many newer(post seventies)bands have tribute albums FOR THEM!
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Progmatic View Post
    What is sub-sub-genre. It either is prog music or not. For me prog metal is not prog music.

    Dave involvement with his bands like 5uu's, UTotem and Thinking Plague inspired whole avant-garde subgenre sprouting bands like Aranis, Cheer-Accident, One Shot, Morglbl, Hamster Theatre, Ahvak, Doctor Nerve, Yugen and similar...
    Not to rain on your parade, Progmatic, but in the interest of accuracy, let me make some observations. Cheer Accident was formed in 1981, even BEFORE Thinking Plague and 5UUs. They may have been influenced by TP/5UUs, but it is not very obvious (to me, anyway). In fairness to Nick and company, Doctor Nerve was formed in 1984, and I'm sure that they were well along their musical path before they ever heard us (if they EVER did - just as we never heard them for years and years). Meanwhile, as has been discussed elsewhere, both 5UUS and TP were well established aesthetically before we ever heard each other or certainly met each other. TP has often been grouped with the so-called COMA bands, Motor Totemist Guild, 5UUs, U Totem, etc., but that is very misleading, because as I say, all these were well established stylistically before having any contact with us and vice versa (U Totem, of course, was an amalgam of MTG and 5UUs, that happened a little later, but really had no real connection to TP). Also TP was "spawned" in Denver, and 5UUs, et al, were from LA. It's simply a case of simultaneous musical evolution.

    As for Hamster Theatre, well certainly there are 3 Plagues in the band, but again, it existed some years before Mark and I joined in 1996. Dave Willey, and to a lesser degree, Jon Stubbs, are the aesthetic masters in HT, and they both have very clear musical "visions" that are unlike TP and 5UUs in fundamental ways - which is not to say that Dave Willey had NO influence for earlier TP (I knew him since 1988), but as one who has learned a ton of Dave's music, it may be complex but it is very different form TP. The eastern Euro and kinda Samla- Nimal vibe is very strong (and the are lots of augmented chords, whole-tone scales and stuff that I would almost never use). Dave spent time in eastern Europe and Switzerland in the early 90s and that experience was crucial to the development of HT. If you listen to Songs from the Hamster Theatre (Dave's solo album), the foundation of the current HT was already there - we were learning and arranging tunes from that CD when I joined. If anything, Dave taught ME to really appreciate the accordion (and similar reed-keys instruments, like harmonium), and that's why you hear so much of these on History of Madness.

    Regarding Aranis, I personally don't hear any 5UUs or TP influence in there. The first time I heard them was at Gouveia in 2008, well before Kerman joined them, and they were definitely kind of "classical chamber music" meets sort of deeper, organized "new age". There were no drums, no "electric" instruments at all, as I recall. And as far as I can tell, Kerman has only added relatively "light" percussion. It's nice music, and they do some fairly complex things, but harmonically and in timbre, they are not what I would call "avant rock" and definitely not in the vein of 5UUs or TP.
    Harmonically, they are relatively "inside".

    One Shot.... there may be some influence - I assume they must have heard 5UUs and TP, but any direct influence is certainly not obvious to me. As for Morglbl, I don't really hear any.

    So, my overall point here is that people often categorize and generalize about musical connections. They mistake interchanges of personnel, or certain correlations in time and location, for actual direct musical influence. Certainly, the older bands have influenced many of the newer bands in some ways, but I have yet to hear a newer band that makes me think specifically of 5UUs or TP - and thank 'god' for that. People need to find their own paths. But that said, I would like to hear more harmonic evolution, and more thoughtful composition, where new territory is *intentionally* explored. Have we really come very far, at all, since Henry Cow? I still think Tim Hodgkinson is a genius, and some of his compositions have yet to be touched by anyone in "rock" music.

    Of course, as has been said, I have a bias for symphonic/orchestral music, which as far as I can tell, is where the real serious music is heard. Let me say yet again..."William Schuman"! (in particular his 6th-10th symphonies). And of course many many others.... You might be interested to know that Dave Kerman has always been a big fan of really "avant" symphonic music, especially Lutoslawski, Schnittke, etc. And while he loves "rawk" music (even including cookie-monster math core stuff), he's very knowledgeable of "serious" music. Also, I heard from Fred Frith years ago that they were all under the spell of Messiaen, which I can detect on In Praise of Learning and Western Culture, and perhaps Erk Gah.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ-Plagued View Post
    Not to rain on your parade
    ...I thought I had it worked out based on the time of releases and the relationships between the bands and musicians but what do I know...Thanks

  8. #33
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    steven wilson's numerous ventures would be the obvious one here. however, how about O.S.I.? their stuff covers the entire gamut of what is nowadays termed progressive music/rock and it is at comfortable distance to the so-called “classic” period. i really do think that they are quite influential, even if a little under the radar.

  9. #34
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    IMO there hasnt been much originality in music for a long time, merely variants and twists of existing methods. I think perhaps Rap was the last truly original musical thing to come along, and I dont neccessarily appreciate much in that particular musical revelation. Prog probably isnt the harbinger of change we often wish it to be, because if it wanders too far off the reservation, it becomes something other than prog - at least for most fans who think they know prog.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Änglagård. The whole “new prog” scene could not exist without them.
    I doubt that. Although they were highly regarded here, most of their reputation resultet from the fact that their records
    were next to impossible to find, until they were rereleased many years later.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Progmatic View Post
    ...I thought I had it worked out based on the time of releases and the relationships between the bands and musicians but what do I know...Thanks
    Again, not be give you, like, a 'slap down', or anything. Just ...clarifying the facts.

  12. #37
    From my perspective- and I do not mean this in the negative way it is going to sound- there are no "influential new prog artists," if by influential we actually mean influencing others as, say, Magma influenced a generation of French and other musicians to create an entire new sub-genre of prog, Zeuhl. What I sort of feel I am reading in these posts is people attempting to position favorite bands as having influence beyond their popularity. Dream Theater is not doing anything new, nor is Anglagard, or Thinking Plague (and I love all these bands so I again do not mean this in a negative way) and they have not influenced people. This is sort of how I see, for example, Bruce Springsteen- he is popular, sells tons, is beloved and outside of a couple of poseurs really has not influenced anything at all. If anything I might give a nod to Ozric for influencing others bands such as Hydria, Magic Mushroom, Quantum Fantay. Steve Wilson seems influential as a producer more than as a musician. I guess I just don't see anyone really creating new movements in prog right now.
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  13. #38
    It's interesting that alost all of the "new" bands mentioned here started in the 90s or earlier. Who's at the top of most "album of the year" polls in the last two years? Big Big Train (formed in 1990), Änglagård (forned in 1991), Porcupine Tree/SW (formed "for real" in 1989), Opeth (formed in 1990). See a pattern? Bands like Dream Theater and Radiohead were extremely influential within just a few albums. Shouldn't there be at least a few recent bands starting to take the reigns? I'm not seeing it.

  14. #39
    Steven Wilson -- even though he's been around for a "long" time, I think he's just coming into his own. I have been a Porcupine Tree fan -- especially of their more metal sounding albums once Gavin Harrison joined up -- but after Get All You Deserve, I'm excited for the new album to be released and see where Steven goes from here. At first, I was bummed thinking that PT might not record any more albums, now I'm glad he's moving in different directions.

    What about Caligula's Horse? They were only formed a few years ago, though I don't see them influencing anyone

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    A fair bit of healthy debate has already occurred on the thread so far, so if I can perhaps look at it from a slightly different perspective.

    My two sons, aged 14 & 13, both play guitar and have done for a few years now - in fact they're better than I am and have both gigged & written songs. However, despite all my years of playing classic prog, their playing is now being influenced by 2 bands that they totally "get" - Porcupine Tree & Muse.

    There is a little love there for the Floyd too. Whilst they also like Transatlantic, BBT & Pineapple Thief, they pick up on the more contemporary sounds & themes of PT & Muse and it is seeping into the music they are trying to play and introduce to their jamming with friends who also love Muse, but lean more towards Metal, so in a few years time it will be interesting to see what they come up with. I think that's pretty healthy, really.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Prog probably isnt the harbinger of change we often wish it to be, because if it wanders too far off the reservation, it becomes something other than prog - at least for most fans who think they know prog.
    I always find it ironic that Prog as a genre should be seen as having boundaries but you are right, if a band strays too far off what most fans seem to consider to be "prog" they are very quickly ostracized, usually amid claims they have "sold out", whatever that means.

    For me Progressive Music should have no limits, that should be the point. It should be, in effect, genre-less!!

    I also agree there is no "new" Prog, as such. What we see now is more of a re-interpretation of what has gone before but that re-interpretation is often fused with something else, Metal for example.

    Steven Wilson has been very influential but not necessarily in the music sense. What seems to have happened, certainly in the last few years in the UK, is that guys like Steve, Muse, Radiohead, etc, have made Prog more accessible and, to be honest, acceptable.

    Look at last year's Prog Magazine awards, for example. Not only did they have a high profile compare in Gavin Estler, for those outside of the UK he presents the very serious and highly regarded BBC news programme Newsnight, it was also mentioned by the newspapers, online, and on TV, something that would have been completely unthinkable here in the UK 10 years ago.
    Last edited by glawster2002; 01-31-2013 at 07:01 AM.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Influential? Modern prog? Not many imo. Dream Theater come to mind although they've been around for quite a while.

    The Flower Kings should be mentioned. How many newer(post seventies)bands have tribute albums FOR THEM!

    Good point, not to mention that is is four discs!
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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Mountain View Post
    Tool is another one. At the height of their popularity there were a lot of bands trying to replicate their sound.
    Have you ever heard Soen? They released a great album last year with a huge Tool influence.
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  19. #44
    Member Ivory Forest's Avatar
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    The most influential Progressive band to make the largest impact the past 20 years has to be TOOL. Opeth, Porcupine Tree, and Dream Theater also, but Tool somehow took Progressive music and made it #1 on the Billboard charts, radio stations accepted it, and made it popular. Although its taken years for people to finally realize Tool isnt a Alternative Rock band, lol. Tool is mysterious, unpredictable, and their sound cant be compared to anything before it aside from some of the King Crimson material Ive heard (Discipline). Theyre a truly inspiring band, and they broke more ground than any Prog bands since the 1970s.
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivory Forest View Post
    The most influential Progressive band to make the largest impact the past 20 years has to be TOOL. Opeth, Porcupine Tree, and Dream Theater also, but Tool somehow took Progressive music and made it #1 on the Billboard charts, radio stations accepted it, and made it popular. Although its taken years for people to finally realize Tool isnt a Alternative Rock band, lol. Tool is mysterious, unpredictable, and their sound cant be compared to anything before it aside from some of the King Crimson material Ive heard (Discipline). Theyre a truly inspiring band, and they broke more ground than any Prog bands since the 1970s.
    I am not familiar with Tool but this is a huge claim. Why do not you support it with some example, youtube clip perhaps.

  21. #46
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    Tool over the last 2 decades does seem like an obvious choice, in terms of mainstream acceptance and influence. Although arguably, Radiohead have done/reached even more of the masses. The argument about Radiohead I suppose could be they are not entirely taking the traditions of progressive rock as specific as Tool. I.e., they are not so much about chops or musicianship, or even just composing the extended or multi--part piece that one can find in Tool's music. Tool does receive the p-word tag, whereas Radiohead rarely has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Änglagård. The whole “new prog” scene could not exist without them.

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    MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

    ‘“What blow, Goblin?” said Corinius.’ --E. R. Eddison

    N.P.:“Marchand des nuages”-Le Match/Légendes
    Bingo! I remember 21 years ago in Sacramento at a small store called Esoteric Records,hidden behind El Camino Ave near Watt and when I walked in Hybris was being played. Instantly I fell in love with it and bought it and Now-Everyone Knows This Is Now iirc on the title. Great albums were in my possession as I left that amazing prog store. I'm sure it's gone by now though.

  23. #48
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    GYBE! and Radiohead spring to mind.
    In az way, you're right... though I'd say that Radiohead were influenced by GYBE! and other post rock bands from Amnesiac onwards

    the other obvious one (to me anyway is Porky Tree...

    Though both RH and PT repeadly claimed not being "prog" for the longest of time...
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivory Forest View Post
    The most influential Progressive band to make the largest impact the past 20 years has to be TOOL. Opeth, Porcupine Tree, and Dream Theater also, but Tool somehow took Progressive music and made it #1 on the Billboard charts, radio stations accepted it, and made it popular. Although its taken years for people to finally realize Tool isnt a Alternative Rock band, lol. Tool is mysterious, unpredictable, and their sound cant be compared to anything before it aside from some of the King Crimson material Ive heard (Discipline). Theyre a truly inspiring band, and they broke more ground than any Prog bands since the 1970s.
    I will admit bias as Tool are probably my favourite band over the last 10 - 15 years or so but I would agree.

    Certainly around the time of Undertow and Ænima there were no commercially successful bands doing what they were doing and even though their output has been a little, shall we say, sparse, their influence is massive. Especially as their popularity is pretty much entirely down to word of mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    In az way, you're right... though I'd say that Radiohead were influenced by GYBE! and other post rock bands from Amnesiac onwards

    the other obvious one (to me anyway is Porky Tree...

    Though both RH and PT repeadly claimed not being "prog" for the longest of time...
    Interestingly, though, the last two interviews Radiohead have given here in the UK were both to Prog magazine.

    I know quite a few musicians in recording bands, a few of which get mentioned on this forum, and the one thing they will always say is they hate being labeled by the media with one particular genre as it can have a huge impact on how they are perceived and possibly their commercial success. That is why musicians are often so reticent if asked of they are a "Prog", or any other genre, band.

    Steven Wilson, for example, was once asked in an interview about PT being labeled a Prog band by the media. He replied that the label of a "Prog band" meant, in simple terms, their music was not played by the likes of BBC Radio 2. Not because they were uncommercial or their music wasn't suitable for airplay by Radio 2, because he believed it was, it would not be played by Radio 2 simply because PT were categorized as a "Prog Rock" band and Radio 2's policy is they don't play "Prog Rock".
    Last edited by glawster2002; 02-04-2013 at 08:32 AM. Reason: Typos!

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