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Thread: Canterbury Binge 2017

  1. #26
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    YES.
    Start with Legend
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  2. #27
    ^
    Yes, do so. It's musically highly challenging and experimental on all levels (and especially compared to just about anything else happening in the UK at the time), but also accessibly adventurous, enticing and in time outright addictive.

    All four of their studio records are outstanding; Leg End, Unrest, In Praise of Learning and Western Culture (which contains their most thoroughly complex music) - and they had a fifth album together with West German art-pop/dada-cabaret trio Slapp Happy, Desperate Straights. These albums are all fascinating and just plain different from the rest. Praise and Straights feature the eccentric and idiosyncratic but fascinating vocals of Dagmar Krause, who would go on to form the Art Bears with Fred Frith and Chris Culer after HCow folded (although Bears were already actually going by then). Believe me, this is uniquely progressive "rock".

    Once you've engulfed yourself in the universe of HCow itself, come back and ask us about the whole Rock-in-Opposition phenomenon; it's a singular world mostly of its own - artistically and aesthetically radical and sometimes revolutionary. Once I introduced myself to that entire ilk, most of my perspective on the nature and function of experimentalism, theory and technique in rock music was irrevocably altered.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Note to Scro:

    Gary Farr and the T-Bones; I owned those two lps as well...
    You're absolutely correct. I've got the ol' record in hand as we speak, and it appears my scrot suffers from a premature case of mild dementia.

    Wait! Scrot's where the wits sit - right?
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #29
    Member Bytor's Avatar
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    I've binged Aymeric's book last month

  5. #30
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    As others have said start HC with Legend, it's brilliant and also their most accessible. What I love about all 4 of their studio albums is how different they are from each other. Legend is really the only one with a musical connection to Canterbury.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
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    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
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  6. #31
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Third twice tonight. Does that count as six? What to say? The most amazing album with electric ham sandwich sonics. "Moon in June" is a masterpiece in and of itself. I can listen to this album on repeat, but my wife might kill me after the 5th time. What am I saying - once will do. Ratledge for prime minister....or at least Archbishop of Canterbury.
    Last edited by chalkpie; 12-29-2016 at 09:53 PM.

  7. #32
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Did the mighty Calyx ever find a new www home?

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by nosebone View Post
    Start with the toes
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    YES.
    Start with Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^
    Yes, do so. It's musically highly challenging and experimental on all levels (and especially compared to just about anything else happening in the UK at the time), but also accessibly adventurous, enticing and in time outright addictive.
    Well, that settles it -- Legend it is! Many thanks, gentlemen.


    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    As others have said start HC with Legend, it's brilliant and also their most accessible. What I love about all 4 of their studio albums is how different they are from each other. Legend is really the only one with a musical connection to Canterbury.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    All four of their studio records are outstanding; Leg End, Unrest, In Praise of Learning and Western Culture (which contains their most thoroughly complex music) - and they had a fifth album together with West German art-pop/dada-cabaret trio Slapp Happy, Desperate Straights. These albums are all fascinating and just plain different from the rest. Praise and Straights feature the eccentric and idiosyncratic but fascinating vocals of Dagmar Krause, who would go on to form the Art Bears with Fred Frith and Chris Culer after HCow folded (although Bears were already actually going by then). Believe me, this is uniquely progressive "rock".

    Once you've engulfed yourself in the universe of HCow itself, come back and ask us about the whole Rock-in-Opposition phenomenon; it's a singular world mostly of its own - artistically and aesthetically radical and sometimes revolutionary. Once I introduced myself to that entire ilk, most of my perspective on the nature and function of experimentalism, theory and technique in rock music was irrevocably altered.
    This is what I love about PE. Getting to learn about music that I might otherwise have remained oblivious to, and to also learn about musical history, is priceless. For instance, until now I had never realized that Fred Frith or Chris Cutler were in Henry Cow, or that Art Bears was connected to them. So that's where those guys came from! I get it now! You learn something new every day. (Art Bears is another group that has been on my radar but I've never heard anything they've done.)

    The RIO movement, while fascinating conceptually, is something I've only skirted the edges of here and there -- honestly, too scared to jump into that ocean yet. Maybe becoming immersed in HCow will help me.

    The prospect of getting acquainted with this music gives me much to look forward to, and currently I have Soft Machine's Third playing on Spotify. Would you believe it's the first time I've ever heard it?

    Seriously, thank you all for the recommendations and the discussion. This is quite an enjoyable thread so far.

    Edit: Just ordered Legend by HCow, and the Live BBC sessions double album by Caravan from Wayside. Woohoo!
    Last edited by aith01; 12-29-2016 at 11:40 PM.

  9. #34
    This is a great thread and one I look forward to reading every year. One of my favourite releases of 2016 was created by Canterbury based band Lapis Lazuli. Their album the Wrong Meeting shows not only that progressive music is still being created in Canterbury, but also shows a band which has the desire to create music that is fresh, innovative and complex, whilst at the same time recognising the legacy of Canterbury bands such as Soft Machine.

    The final track of their album 'Reich' is available as a name your price download https://lapislazuli.bandcamp.com/tra...-free-download.

    DPRP reviewed the album in November 2016
    http://www.dprp.net/reviews/2016-057.php#lapislazuli

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    Did the mighty Calyx ever find a new www home?
    It hasn't yet, but that's mostly a case of bad timing, what with this taking place just before the Christmas break. I need to change providers but being away from home for a couple of weeks doesn't help. So I need to sort that out when I return early in the New Year.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Nice! Not sure about the MM double edition, nice extra goodies?
    If you like the jamming in "Part of the Dance", you're in for a treat. There's a long alternate take of that, plus a similar jam on Hugh Hopper's "Memories". Somewhat meandering and not absolute masterpieces of jazz-rock but a welcome opportunity to immerse oneself in the sound of the original Matching Mole with Dave Sinclair on organ, of which there's too little available.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  12. #37
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    It hasn't yet, but that's mostly a case of bad timing, what with this taking place just before the Christmas break. I need to change providers but being away from home for a couple of weeks doesn't help. So I need to sort that out when I return early in the New Year.

    Aymeric, if this quest for a new shelter is a costly thing, you may want to ask for support...

    I'd be glad to chip in, and some of my buddies would too.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  13. #38
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    yes, for HC, start with Leg End

    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I'm certainly waiting on Aymeric's book (in English). Only live Caravan I have is Fairfield, is BBC 'better', 'more essential', 'different'?
    Fairfield is their Utmost, IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Ian,

    yes, the Caravan BBC stuff is relatively essential.
    Quite, but be carefull in choosing the proper BBC release, because Green Bottles For Marjorie (however interesting it may) is pretty shitty sounding

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The live Paris Theatre BBC recordings of this time are amongst the most important material in the BBC's entire archive.
    I don't find the Caravan Paris BBC recording all that interesting, mainly because it concentrates on the Cunning Stunts material.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  14. #39
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    The most amazing album with electric ham sandwich sonics.
    There aren't that many competing for that prize, however (nicely said, btw).
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  15. #40
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Agreed that The Time Of Our Lives BBC is essential Caravan, and I think I probably devote more listening time to it than the (also excellent) Fairfield Halls. Both are outstanding archival companion pieces to the catalogue proper.

    Been in an Egg vibe lately after a friend came across some used CDs in a shop unexpectedly. Such terrific stuff.

    Placed my Christmas CD order which should arrive sometime this coming week, including the SHM-CD editions of the two Hatfield And The North albums, as well as the Esoteric reissues of the first two National Healths, since I still haven't checked those out (the reissues I mean, I know the albums well!) So I guess you could say the onset of winter/beginning of a new year is a Canterbury vibe for me as well!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  16. #41
    ^ JJ, if you still can't get into HCow, the third Egg album (The Civil Surface, '74) has some of that very same cerebral frame to it (plus contributions from Lindsay Cooper and Tim Hodgkinson of HC, of course). But as with HC's Leg End, it's still the melodic strength which enhances the full impression. I'd recommend you still have a go at it. I mean, it isn't as if the harmonic layers on The Polite Force aren't adequately "academic" already.

    I personally think The Civil Surface is a mammoth record, give or take those notoriously overloud drums. The themes are still there, performance is stellar and the atmosphere is just about right.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #42
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Ian - if you dig the early albums (which are the best imo), then considering the sound, track selection, and historical aspect, I think its essential AND different than Fairfield Halls. I also love Fairfield Halls, and the organ solo on "Backwards" is one of my top Canterbury moments, period. You also get Richard on the BBC, but only Pye on Fairfield. There might be some samples online of the BBC, but knowing you I think you'd love it

    EDIT: Ian - try this, you'll like it! - - - -
    I probably need this, as someone who definitely prefers early Caravan.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Legend is really the only one with a musical connection to Canterbury.
    The Beginnings disc makes for a great companion. As Canterbury as it gets! And loads of fun to listen to, if not as highly polished and developed. But the music has a raw sound quality that is very attractive. I'm glad these box set volumes are now available individually, even though I'm missing out on the booklet and all the exhaustive notes. But there's J Kelman's extensive review at All About Jazz for some background and history.

  19. #44
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I personally think The Civil Surface is a mammoth record, give or take those notoriously overloud drums. The themes are still there, performance is stellar and the atmosphere is just about right.
    I agree.

    And I dig the sound, even if the drums are mixed loud. I can hear everything and it's recorded well enough for 1974...
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  20. #45
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    Talking of production/mixing...I have to return to that first Soft Machine album and confess I've never liked the way that sounds. Whoever mixed this went crazy with the 'psychedelic' panning. The 2nd album doesn't have the same production clarity but is a much more satisfying, unified mix IMHO.

  21. #46
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Talking of production/mixing...I have to return to that first Soft Machine album and confess I've never liked the way that sounds. Whoever mixed this went crazy with the 'psychedelic' panning. The 2nd album doesn't have the same production clarity but is a much more satisfying, unified mix IMHO.
    Oh man, I love the production on the 1st album! I know the Udester loves it as well, he'll probably chime in here. It has real meat, real definition, and a unique sonic signature that imo makes it unified. It's cool mate, our meatballs process things in different ways. GREAT fucking album regardless of what one thinks of the mix, production, etc

  22. #47
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I agree.

    And I dig the sound, even if the drums are mixed loud. I can hear everything and it's recorded well enough for 1974...
    +3.

    One of those albums that has a slightly exaggerated negativity surrounding it imo. I still prefer The Polite Force, but TCS is an album a ton of bands could never make install composition level alone.

    Three words: Enne a Gram.

  23. #48
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Talking of production/mixing...I have to return to that first Soft Machine album and confess I've never liked the way that sounds. Whoever mixed this went crazy with the 'psychedelic' panning. The 2nd album doesn't have the same production clarity but is a much more satisfying, unified mix IMHO.
    For a 1968 psychedelic album, hurriedly recorded by someone who didn't know or take too much interest in the band, it's not bad, imo.

    I agree with you about its flaws, but, honestly, you have to judge its flaws in the context of what they were then and what was in fashion then.

    There are many, many worse sounding psychedelic rock albums from 1968. That doesn't make this better, but it helps to relieve some of the sonic pain. At least it does for me.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  24. #49
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I agree.

    And I dig the sound, even if the drums are mixed loud. I can hear everything and it's recorded well enough for 1974...
    Of the three Egg albums, Surface is far and away my favorite. As someone who obsesses over sound and mixes, I honestly don't see what's the big deal with that record. Sounds like nothing else.


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  25. #50
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Canterbury Binge 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Talking of production/mixing...I have to return to that first Soft Machine album and confess I've never liked the way that sounds. Whoever mixed this went crazy with the 'psychedelic' panning. The 2nd album doesn't have the same production clarity but is a much more satisfying, unified mix IMHO.
    To the contrary, I LOVE the way Softs 1 sounds. It's the best sounding record they produced, at least with Wyatt and my personal favorite. I find 2 and 3 slightly disappointing in the sound / mix department, but rather strong in the music department.


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