Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 67

Thread: Tony Banks and Drawbars

  1. #26
    Well, even Tony didn't use the exact same settings all the time I guess *g* It's funny, I listen to that video and it's clearly his classic sound and yet it's somehow nothing like my mental image of what it should be. Odd how the mind works...

  2. #27
    Member Burble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    8
    The video I saw was actually some time ago - I was just having fun trying to mimic Banks drawbar settings again the other night, which is why I posted. I can't find the clip that I'm thinking of. It wasn't the Belgian TV one, because I'm thinking that there were colored lights. But if you can stop the Belgian TV one at :48 you can see that the setting he's using at that point is more like 08 0600 000, which actually gives a bit of a different sound that the one I'm used to (but, not surprisingly, more accurate to the video footage). If you've got a Hammond or Nord, rev it up and try the little opening Salamacis lick with 080600000 and then 0840000000, and see if you don't think one sounds more like the album and one sounds more like the video footage. I'll have to go back and listen again, but I think that on the album, there's a slight regisrattion change between the intro and the verse, that might account for it, or maybe he just changed his mind. (Or maybe, in keeping with how things are going on this thread, I'm just dead wrong.)

    I'll have to try your settings, trurl, and see how they come out on the Hammond. Settings have such weird nuance between a B3 (or other console) and an L100 (or other spinet) and a "clonewheel", it's always interesting to see which setting is the one that makes you think, "Eureka! I've got it!!!" On my L100, I find I get the most Banks-y sounds starting close to 48 4000 000 (second harmonic percussion, fast decay) and then working in the fourth and fifth drawbars.

    Odd thing I notice about the tabs on the clear shot you mention is that he appears to have both the second and third percussion harmonic on. That's unusual.

    That's enough for now.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    Odd thing I notice about the tabs on the clear shot you mention is that he appears to have both the second and third percussion harmonic on. That's unusual.
    !!
    Can you do that? I've never played an actual L100...

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    !!
    Can you do that? I've never played an actual L100...
    Yes.

  5. #30
    I think banks use preset ( the flip tab you can see on his L122 ) . it it why some of this sound are not related to the drawbars position ...
    also spinet lake foldback as B3 or C3 have . Most of hammond emulator are based on the B3 and can't sound thin like a spinet on the upper register ..

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorillclub View Post
    I think banks use preset ( the flip tab you can see on his L122 ) . it it why some of this sound are not related to the drawbars position ...
    Yes, that was one thing I was wondering...
    also spinet lake foldback as B3 or C3 have. Most of hammond emulator are based on the B3 and can't sound thin like a spinet on the upper register ..
    That's a good point too. The software based plugins (like NI's B4 or GSi's VB3, which I use) can emulate that, but it's a global setting that is usually disabled for more of a B3 mode. I may have to play with that some. Back in the early days I had an M3 and always thought it had its own cool character- I didn't realize the lack of foldback probably had a lot to do with that.

  7. #32
    the presets on the L100 serie are :

    upper :
    Clarinet 008080800
    Trumpet 006688888
    Full Organ 868868446

    lower
    Ensemble 6644222 ( edit : beware , only 7 drawbars on the lower manual . it start at 8' so enter 006644222 on a regular 9 drawbars setting )

    maybe you can start with this drawbars setting to see if it match some banks sound ?
    Last edited by Gorillclub; 01-31-2013 at 10:56 AM.

  8. #33
    Member Burble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    8
    Gorillclub: I don't he uses any of the presets, other than the 'Ensemble' preset on the lower keyboard (which you can actually see in the Belgian video - I didn't note the time) The 'Clarinet' and 'Trumpet' presets are awful. I don't recognize either as sounds he's used. 'Full Organ' might be useful, and he may have used that, but it's not a distinctively Banks sound.

    Most of the flip tabs to the right are percussion, reverb and vibrato tabs, plus I think there's a "brilliance" tab at the far right that he has down sometimes, so if any of those are down, it doesn't mean he's using a preset.

    What's strange is that if you freeze it at :42 (which I have obviously done too much already), there aren't ANY tabs down for the upper manual (the group of four to the left), which should mean no sound at all. Obviously, either he had a modification done (which I've not heard of), or the tab is broken so that you can move it back up without silencing the keyboard (I had one that did that once).

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by progsynth View Post
    I love Tony Banks playing and hammond sounds and I love Progressive Ears for the geeks that analyze drawbar settings!

    Just recently learned about "888" in a previous thread, and programmed it into my Electro 3. Jammed with it at band rehearsal yesterday and it sounds awesome!!
    888 is no longer alone!!!!!

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    888 is no longer alone!!!!!
    Classic!

  11. #36
    Maybe commonly known, but T Banks also used the Hammond tapes of the Mellotron on a few tracks. And always recorded his hammond DI'ed and a mic'ed leslie. Just adding some unimportant tidbits.

    JK

  12. #37
    Yes, on Seven Stones he used a Mellotron for the organ sound. He also had both the Mellotron and Hammond go through the Leslie when playing live. I think that's why Watcher sounds different on Live than on Foxtrot. Finally, Tony opted for running the T-100 through the MXR Phase 100 during the W&W era.

    For a guy who didn't like Hammond organs, Tony certainly did innovating things with them.

    Note - Jim, I know you know this trivia, I was just posting for others.

  13. #38
    So Tab settings on a Spinet Hammond....
    Far Right = Bright
    Next one to the left = Soft
    Continuing to the right to left right down the row...

    Heavy Reverb
    Light Reverb

    Next group of three are variations of Vibrato

    Next Group of 4 are: Vibrato (On or Off, up is off) and a couple more, the last one is ReIterate

    The last ones you can see are the percussion Tabs (and not percussion like Keith Emerson used but more pitched type of percussion like Guitar, Marimbas, Banjo, etc... Tony couldn't make his Hammonds POP when playing notes).

    Further to the left are the Drawbar Preset Tabs and finally a tab that turns the drawbars on or off (you can't see these).,

    So, from this photo, you wouldn't know if he was using a PRESET tab or the drawbars since we can't see these tabs.

    Just thought I would help everybody see what was happening in the reference to the freezed frame of the YOUTUBE video.

    Jim

    PS - Ad Inf, yes of course... He didn't abandon the leslie/DI'ed technique until post Peter Gabriel... What is really interesting is that the entire band moved to Transistor amps by The Lamb Tour (including T Banks, the T Hammond and the Leslie 760). I guess tubes didn't tour well.

    PSS - Do not underestimate how much the DI'ed Hammond changed the overall tone of the Organ in the studio (It is night and day if you don't mix in the DI'ed Hammond versus just using the Leslie).

  14. #39
    “DI”?

    -------------
    MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

    "You can take the war out of the soldier, but you can't raise that soldier from the dead."
    --Shona Laing

    N.P.:“Le temps”-Terpandre

  15. #40
    Direct Input (without amp/speaker)

  16. #41
    Actually, Tony had his spinets modded so he could send the Direct line to his little mixing board (the L and T have no Direct Line output and need to be modified for this ability). But I am really trying to help all the keyboard players duplicate TBs studio and live sound (can't do it with the Leslie alone). Also for what it is worth, Johnnie Burns did the FOH mix on those early tours in addition to engineering/producing the classic GEN LPs. DI actually stands for Direct Injection but Direct Input works too.

    JK

  17. #42
    Member Burble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by jkleban View Post
    So Tab settings on a Spinet Hammond, etc....
    Just thought I would help everybody see what was happening in the reference to the freezed frame of the YOUTUBE video.
    Even though this is getting silly, just for the sake of clarity, I think you're combining some of the L-series tabs with the T-series tabs. Trying to represent the tab grouping with spacing, where top to bottom = right to left, the L-122 tabs would be:

    Brightness
    Volume Soft

    Reverb II
    Reverb I

    Vibrato Chorus
    Vibrato Small
    Vibrato Normal

    Percussion Soft
    Percussion Short
    Percussion Third Harmonic
    Percussion Second Harmonic

    Full Organ
    Clarinet
    Trumpet
    Upper Drawbars (These four tabs control the sound of the upper manual, but only one can be selected.)

    Ensemble
    Lower Drawbars (These two tabs control the sound of the lower manual, but only one can be selected.)

    What that does mean is that if you look at the freeze-frame in question, none of the upper-maunual tabs are depressed. I'm not pointing this out to be pedantic, because I still have no idea what is going on; on my L, with that setting you don't get any sound whatsoever.

    Well, we've beaten that horse to death, I think.

    How about this? Does anyone have a drawbar setting that they think matches up to either a) The 9/8 Apocalypse solo or b) the setting for the lead in section for Get 'em Out By Friday? I guess that's what I was really hoping that someone would pop in with.

  18. #43
    Burble,

    Tony did use the DI'ed Hammond signals on Foxtrot as well. That might be part of why you can't find what you think are the drawbar settings TB is using... a couple of wierd things happen when mixing the DI and Mic'ed Leslie.. one being a controlled out of phase sound of the DI'ed signal.

    Thanks for xplaining the L series tabs also.

    Jim

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    How about this? Does anyone have a drawbar setting that they think matches up to either a) The 9/8 Apocalypse solo or b) the setting for the lead in section for Get 'em Out By Friday? I guess that's what I was really hoping that someone would pop in with.
    That's a section in particular that sounds like basically all white drawbars to me + maybe the 2nd. At least, in my head- may have to pull it out and listen

  20. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire, England
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Adinfinitum View Post
    Yes, on Seven Stones he used a Mellotron for the organ sound. He also had both the Mellotron and Hammond go through the Leslie when playing live. I think that's why Watcher sounds different on Live than on Foxtrot. Finally, Tony opted for running the T-100 through the MXR Phase 100 during the W&W era.

    For a guy who didn't like Hammond organs, Tony certainly did innovating things with them.

    Note - Jim, I know you know this trivia, I was just posting for others.
    I certainly didn't know it, but now my life feels complete - so thanks

  21. #46
    Member Burble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    8
    BTW, I meant to mention:
    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    888 is no longer alone!!!!!
    Best and most cogent post to this entire thread.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    BTW, I meant to mention:

    Best and most cogent post to this entire thread.
    Thanks. I'm actually sampling 888000000 right now on a Hammond for a new virtual instrument called "SampleTank 3".

    I have an L100 here in the studio. I saw Tony's which was still there at The Farm along with some other classic relics (many of which I got to sample the times I've been there recording). Anyway, this thread is cool! If I had more time I'd reference some notes I have on the subject. When I got the chance to play the organ solo on Hackett's Supper's Ready on Genesis Revisited 2 I didn't actually reference the original to a T (not a model T either). I did it a few ways and Roger (Hackett's main co-producer/keyboardist) ended up using some of the tracks but not all of them. But what I had layered with it was really cool actually (a sort of wah distorted pianet kind of sound). But the percussion harmonic was still there and it had that bite to it. So much fun to do. You gotta love those old vintage Tony Banks sounds. I actually have a square of 70's/80's TB keys in my studio set up ready to go and I might invite Nick D'Virgilio over in a week or so to jam while I sit in that square messing around. So organic (npi). P10, RMI, Arp ProSoloist, L100, CP70, Arp Quadra... lush analog goodness. Anyway, carry on. Interesting stuff.

  23. #48
    You can find a picture of a cheat sheet used by the TMB keyboard player :

    http://www.davidmyersmusic.ca/gallery.html

    (4th picture of row 8)

    He seems to use preset and drawbar . He even use the clarinet setting on "dancing with ...." . It seems that the fullorgan preset is used pretty often .... Anyway its TMB and not the real tony ....
    Last edited by Gorillclub; 02-06-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  24. #49
    Member Burble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorillclub View Post
    You can find a picture of a cheat sheet used by the TMB keyboard player :
    Awesome! This is more like something I was hoping for. But that's got to be right. The clarinet preset is totally the sound of the single-note stuff that Banks is playing at the beginning, starting with the "Paper late, etc.". Very cool.

    I'll have to set up some of the other registrations later. Thanks for digging that out. That's great.

  25. #50

    Firth of Fifth

    Hello everyone,
    Am new to the forum, I wanted to ask if anyone can help me to identify the settings of Tony Hammond drawbars in the video below ..... if it is the T102 or the
    L122 and possibly in addition to Leslie, what effect is used to produce this particular sound ... here's the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtk1HLrjGRs
    maybe someone knows even the setting of arp pro soloist in solo?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •