^^^
"My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"
President Harry S. Truman
Bastards!
Eh, I'm somewhere in the middle. An "artist" doesn't "owe" me anything because I don't care if I ever see the "artist" live. I'm fine just listening to the albums. I don't need to meet them. I'm happy with the albums. But, these "artists" should appreciate their fans. Show a bit of humility. Be thankful you have a career doing what you love. If they don't want to deal with fans then quit. Just retire and get on with your life. Geddy and Alex GET IT!
Artists don't owe their fans anything; conversely, fans owe the artist nothing -- once the music is no longer relevant to the fan, one ceases to buy the product. Which is often the reason artists go from playing arenas and stadiums down to playing open mic nights at the local bowling alley.
"And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."
Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/
I figure that, if you love what you're doing, appreciation for the fans will go along with it. But feigning appreciation and humility out of obligation is just plain weird, and there ARE plenty of alternatives to a career in music.
I think there are extremes in both groups (artists and fans). Professional musicians need somebody to support their chosen profession. When I heard Peart's comments I just decided he is pompous dick. Yeah fans and the press can take things to the extreme and I can understand an artist's frustration at times. But why the fuck did he choose to make a living with his music and then dismisses or doesn't understand interest and admiration of his talents?
yes.......being a star has its positives and negatives that come with the territory: Dont like crazy fans? Then try being a plumber as a career choice - you dont see the paparazzi following them around...........Originally Posted by Dave
No but you still have to deal with nutso customers.
And all the other ass-crack models.
"My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"
President Harry S. Truman
No, he's not a dick, he's just not comfortable around strangers. There was one interview where he said, even when he was a teenage Who fan, he never even considered the idea of finding out what hotel they were staying at and trying to actually try to meet them. He's just not that kind of person. He even wrote a song about it (well, he wrote the lyrics anyway).
And also, I'm sure over the years, when he has met fans, he's had to deal with "I like your old stuff better, why don't you make another record like Moving Pictures" and other similar comments. Or you have people who want to tell you their whole life story and how their music changed their view of the universe or inspired them to be musicians or whatever. I imagine that gets old after awhile. Some people are able to "grin and bear it" better.
Same thing with Fripp. I don't think he's an asshole, I just think he tires quickly of the process of dealing with people who want a little more than just an autograph. And then you've got guys like the one fan I met a King CRimson show who brought every LP, every CD booklet, etc for Fripp to sign. I say to the guy, "Ya know Fripp doesn't do autographs, don't ya?". He's like, "Wha?! You're kidding!", and I'm like, "No, I'm not, unless there's a scheduled meet and greet event, he just does not do autographs". And since we're standing by the stage door, the road manager comes out, and the guy starts talking him. Road manager is like, "Oh, yeah, I expect him to not even talk to me on show days".
And so what? If these guys feel uncomfortable or unable to do that kind of stuff, I'm fine with that. It has no bearing on my enjoyment of the music.
Maybe because they feel driven to create something and therefore feel they feel it's less a "choice" and more a "calling", just as some people join the military (hopefully) knowing full well they may get to experience first hand the worst humanity has to offer.But why the fuck did he choose to make a living with his music and then dismisses or doesn't understand interest and admiration of his talents?
And I dont' think it's a matter of dismissing or "not understanding" said interest/admiration, but more the fact that they prefer to keep the admiration at arm's length, as it were.
Well said. We're all going to say stupid things (see my previous post)
The correct answer is $21.12.That's total. Fans are meaningless. Great, good or bad, music can exist in a void.
Just discovered this thread, but no more time to go further than the last post I quoted
I don't expect much from artistes, least of all autographs (I don't want uneraseable marks on my albums) or meet & greet stuff
I like to meet them, but won't demand it from them.
Well, I totally agree , but we're talking music here...
In litterature (novels or comics) and to a lesser extent in cinema, some œuvres are cut out in parts or chapters... The fans bought the first part and should expect the last part ... soooo in a way, there IS an obligation to deliver what they started
yup
sadly for them... At least, for the musos that stayed in the "trade" until the end... Many of the "artistes" recycled themselves in less artistic avenues when their large success period ended
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Yeah, but that's in Canadian dollars.The correct answer is $21.12.
Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx
LOL! You win the Internet!
"Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."
-Cozy 3:16-
My favorite writers and musicians owe me nothing. Nothing. But the goddamn mother-fucking Minnesota Vikings owe me plenty!
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Why should the entertainment industry be any different from the rest of society? The entitlement mentally has become ingrained so deeply in our society, and is only getting worse all the time.
An artist owes the fanbase an honest effort, and nothing else. The fan will decide with his/her wallet, as to the validity of the product. Fan appreciation is always nice, but not required. You can
always be a dick if you want to. That's a given. However, in today's climate of entitlement, where many feel they have the right to the artist's product for free, I can see how more artists are
becoming less receptive to "fan" interaction.
A Comfort Zone is not a Life Sentence
Getting the artist product for free has caused a very resentful attitude in the musicians circle. The success of it has made fans feel comfortable. Karaoke gives many people the fantasy of being a star. Overtime karaoke has given people the opportunity to feel what it must be like to perform and everybody will clap because it doesn't matter if you can't sing very well....that is not the point of karaoke. The point of karaoke is for taking something which is done professionally by a performer and re-connect it to something done unprofessionally by a fan. A lot of guitar instruction vids on Y.T. display the most basic way to play a song. It is often specified that the vid is for beginners however the outcome for society is not thousands of beginners staying in a dark room to practice before they go out one day and perform. Instead they form bands and go out to perform sounding unprofessional. They don't want to work at having skill. Instead....they go out as a three piece band and demand no more than 2 or 3 hundred dollars for a gig. They bring their friends ....a crowd. Now the owner is happy because his band is selling alcohol all night. Why should he pay a 4 piece professionally sounding band 6 or 7 hundred when he can make more profit by paying a lousy band less , people not acting as if they know the difference, and selling alcohol all night. Everybody's a star. This is the kind of malarkey that keeps good music from circulating and lacks in appreciation.
yeah, what's the point of going 5 - 0 if you're going to lose three in a row afterwards
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
It's not just the three losses. We're talking a lifetime of disappointment. These three losses are just a reminder of blown Super Bowls and blown playoff games. It's just an unrelenting cycle of abuse. They tease you with the promise that "this could be the year" and sometimes, they're so close you can taste it...and then, denied again. The Minnesota Vikings - the NFL's greatest cock-tease. Like I said, they OWE me.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Of course. I didn't say otherwise.
I think it's nice when someone walks up and says..."We're sitting at this table and I just want to tell you that my friends and I have been watching you all night and we think you are an amazing guitarist" Of course you don't allow a nice compliment like that to go to your head...but you take it for its true value. You've been playing high energy complex stuff throughout the night and working up a sweat. In point..I appreciate a compliment like that because I'm a little out of breath and have to wipe my face with a towel when I exit the stage. So they're really just saying "We appreciate your hard work".
You begin to conceive the amounted structure of value to the compliment when you rise early the next day after the gig...with a cup of coffee and you're trying to play a Paganini piece on the Classical guitar and you just completely utterly suck. Your inability to fully accomplish performing the piece has to be solved by practicing techniques that you haven't applied in considerable time. It may take an hour to brush up first. This is when the truth is revealed. How can any musician take a compliment beyond something simplistic when they know the hidden truth? They can if they are egotistical which is pointless to be that way when not every outstanding musician plays the same piece every night to total perfection of their own standards. It's irrelevant that you have been playing an instrument since age 7 and now you are 60. You will always make mistakes and many of them won't be acknowledged by the audience because you practice the whole of your life building up a method of covering up mistakes. If someone tells you that they like your playing...you should always appreciate the sincerity of that.
On another note....fans who hound musicians make it difficult for the sincere fans who only want to shake hands and walk away. That's moronic. The musician has to close everyone off to eliminate the problem....and several Prog musicians have taken that path. I suggest all the fans to start thinking the same like robots ...so in point they won't offend the musician...or annoy them. The fans could form a committee on how to treat a musician. We could have a website and sell books that teach people the psychology of it so they wouldn't appear so bluntly a-holish in the presence of their holy Prog musician. Allow me to give an example of a certain type of person who would need to read that book. This is decades ago....I was exiting a venue and in front of me was an old musician friend talking with Justin Hayward. After he shook hands with Justin Hayward he began telling him....."Oh...btw...Justin I'm a songwriter too". My stomach dropped, my heart pounded, and I thought "God..I want to die now" lol! So then I calmed down as he continued further babbling widely about his silly music and the structure of it to Justin Hayward. I thought..."It would have been nice to say hello to Justin Hayward...but I'm definitely not doing that now" I remember thinking. ...." Why would you be telling Justin Hayward that you're a songwriter???". "This guy wrote the song "Gypsy" and you want to share your lame music with him??" I just walked away and felt embarrassed. It was ignorant .
I lost a friendship because of my inability to accept a compliment; this guy had supported me and my various bands for a few years, he had an AM radio show here in LA, had us on the air once. It was rad.
I thought I had a shitty night and when he told me he loved the show, I disregarded his thoughts and told him I thought it sucked. He took offense, rightly so, and we haven't spoken since, and it's been 15+ years at least.
Ever since I have made a sincere effort to be gracious and accepting of compliments, even if I feel otherwise. I talked to a therapist about it 'cause my issues stem from a childhood of being made to feel guilty or otherwise unworthy of whatever successes I had. Hardly anyone cares or even notices little mistakes that might seem gigantic to me and the band and for someone to come forward and say we rocked is a wonderful and vulnerable connection to make.
The only thing an artist owes me is being honest with themselves as far as their art goes.
It isn't prog related, but I've met musicians before they became famous. Back in 1991, I saw the Goo Goo Dolls at a long gone club when they were a punk band on an indie label and only got airplay on college radio. After the show I chatted with Johnny Rzeznik, who bummed a cigarette from me. He talked about Buffalo, which was similar to Cleveland at the time. He also mentioned riding in the van to the gigs. I just treated him the same way as any other person I encountered at the club that night. He was nice to me. I didn't ask for an autograph, but just talked with him like I'd talk to anyone else.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Laura
That's a little unusual to me. Maybe this friend was an extremist. Every promoter and manager I've ever worked for on the corporate level would say to me..."Oh...you musicians are always trying to be perfect....don't make waves just get in line" or they might say..."You can correct issues with music when I put you in the studio next week" "Right now I need you to do this show...so please wing it" Several of these managers and promoters understand the psychological aspect of musicians. Some of them read the book. Ones who don't bargain like your friend are extremely opposite and are not willing to compromise for the sake of good business. Clearly you were being honest from a professional musician's standpoint.
I can certainly understand seeking out a therapist if you are in the music business. I'm from the old school . I used to play in a Glam Rock band in the 70's and it all just turned into lawsuits ...it was a complete mess. I was Classically trained but I chose to do this? I continued to travel the road for decades and couldn't relate to my environment. Even when I played Progressive Rock in the 70's....every night witnessing the vastness of people's actions drove me to seek therapy. But that's not really part of what we are as musicians. That's society's version of the musicians life. Like Jim Gadfridan says...."Hey buddy...I like I Hop...if you dont like it you don't have to go there"...which is literally what you have to do on the road if you intend on surviving it.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks