What Does An Artist Owe His Fans?

[NogbadTheBad]

Artists owe their fans nothing unless its a commercial commitment for which they've taken money. My view is that they should put out the music they love making and tour it if they want to. Hopefully it will attract fans, buyers and concert goers. I'm not a fan of the whole meet and greet thing. If it's a festival and I get the chance for a chat that's great but I'm not interested in getting in the artists way if they are getting ready to perform or chilling after playing. If they've set up a meet and greet and taken money for it then there should be an expectation of a photo, handshake, quick chat whatever but I personally can't ever imagine wanting to do that.

[Reid]

Don't care about meet-and-greets and all that stuff.

The last show I attended was curfewed so the band could spend an hour doing the meet n greet thing. I would have preferred another hour of music. I don't need autographs or overpriced merch, just the music!

[Yves]

I posted the comment in the Rush docco thread about not being enamoured of Peart, but I need to clarify here that my feelings are based on reading his journals and his attitudes therein towards people in general, not specifically fans or bandmates. It's a personal opinion, and not meant to start a Peart-attack.

My other comments in relation to his bandmates are more in the way of well-documented observations, and the apparent gap between how Alex and Ged approach things and how Neil chooses a different approach.

Personally, I was disappointed at no UK sign-off dates, but I don't feel the band owe me or any crap like that.

Your opinions are totally valid. This thread was not meant to single you out. I was going to answer there and thought that, when applied to artists in general, the topic deserved it's own thread.

[Gruno]

When I ran security for Tears For Fears and would have to walk the guys directly to their awaiting vehicles after a show without stopping for autographs/photos, the amount of bitter 'fans' was overboard. Many of these fans yelled "Assholes!", "Fuck you both!" and so on. Curt Smith even tweeted about this. The sense of entitlement has gone through the roof now that celebs are more accessible via social media.

[moecurlythanu]

When I ran security for Tears For Fears and would have to walk the guys directly to their awaiting vehicles after a show without stopping for autographs/photos, the amount of bitter 'fans' was overboard. Many of these fans yelled "Assholes!", "Fuck you both!" and so on. Curt Smith even tweeted about this. The sense of entitlement has gone through the roof now that celebs are more accessible via social media.

Do they tend to attract sociopaths?

[Zeuhlmate]

They dont owe us a thing. They owe to themselves to have an inspiring life.
Except - when I buy a ticket to a concert, I expect them to do their best.

[Gruno]

Do they tend to attract sociopaths?

Not much different from other bands I have worked with. THere have been a few stalkers, also.

[rcarlberg]

Here's another aspect of the relationship that nobody has mentioned yet.

Artists and especially musicians are only as good as their last record. None of them has a medical or dental plan. Very very few of them make enough money to actually retire comfortably. In past years contracts with record companies were notorious for screwing artists out of future royalties.

Therefore many acts end up playing the state fair circuit, or the casino circuit, or the cruise ship circuit, or the college campus circuit just to afford to live.

And these days, with record companies and big paydays long gone, artists must continue to engage with their fans one-on-one to remain popular.

What do they "owe" the fans? Well, in many ways the fans are their bosses. They owe them whatever it takes to keep their job.

[Enid]

Much of what is maximised from fan to artist is sometimes psychologically based on the fan's interpretation of popularity. Regardless what style of music the artist plays...the sincere fan with rational behaviour still looks up to an artist as a God , genius, or an innovative icon in history. Some artists have taken great interest in fans such as these and that's strictly obtainable relationship brought about by the curiosity of the artist to know what sincere fans think of their music. You have to be open to your fans suggestions out of respect not because your attitude is about towing the line to make yourself look good . That's even more contrived and sort of ignorant to individuals who spent the whole of their life listening to your music and all they want is a hand shake.



On another note....the artist puts up with that certain percentage of annoying, obnoxious type fans. Realistically why would a fan walk up to Alan White and start babbling about how great Bill Bruford is? This happens all the time. Especially if your role in the band was replacing someone whom a great percentage of people think is more talented than you .It's obnoxious rude behaviour to invade an artist's territory like that and it must be addressed with abundance of avoidance by having protection. And many fans ask the same deep questions over and over. The artist might think: "OMG...how many more times will I have to answer this question!" It's a very delicate situation for the musician.

[progeezer]

Hey Mo - you taking your cue from JKL Jed in this thread?

[Jubal]

Only for the specific items or services that the fans pay for.
I am quite happy with what I have received from Neil Peart.
That said, I would never pay more than 50.00 to see a concert, no matter who the artist is, or what type of extras they offered.

[WHORG]

Recordings/Content - pretty much nothing, except a reasonable artistic effort. It's pretty easy these days to cample artist's new material from most any artist . . .

Live/Concerts - the delivery of content and/or entertainment value subjectively measured. More concert reviews/set-lists than ever on line too . . .

I expect very little and like to be surprised . . .

[arabicadabra]

And these days, with record companies and big paydays long gone, artists must continue to engage with their fans one-on-one to remain popular.

What do they "owe" the fans? Well, in many ways the fans are their bosses. They owe them whatever it takes to keep their job.

Hmmm. If I paraphrase that to "whatever it takes to get them to buy a ticket", then I see your point. Kansas sure sells a lot of concert tickets without doing fan meet and greets (at least, that I'm aware of). But the idea that yelling at the artist as they're leaving is somehow justified by the fact that a "fan" wants something (which I realize is NOT what you're implying, rather just what a lot of today's consumers seem to feel) is frightening. If I owned a Halloween shop, the sign on the counter would say "the COSTUMER is always right".

[Jerjo]

Here's the definitive piece on fan entitlement, written by author Neil Gaiman when a fan asks him about the output (or lack thereof) from author George RR Martin:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/0...nt-issues.html

This of course led to an amusing set piece at a convention called WOOtsock. A couple of guys known as Paul and Storm wrote a ditty that was popular at SFF cons called "Write Like the Wind" about Martin's battle with finishing another book in the series. They performed it at WOOtsock...or at least, tried to. There was an...interruption



This has been a nerd interlude. Now back to your regular programming. Look, over there, an aging musician just said something vaguely nasty about another aging musician. Run for your lives!

[moecurlythanu]

Hey Mo - you taking your cue from JKL Jed in this thread?

Certainly not. You got a problem?

Edit: I've posted twice in this thread, neither of which were intended as humor. The first was a succinct commentary on the mindset of many of the supporters of a certain candidate. The second, while certainly containing snark, was a succinct commentary on the type of fan behavior that Gruno described. I don't tend to write long dissertations, and perhaps that lends itself to misinterpretation, but I just don't have the time or fortitude for the long reply, generally speaking.

[Yves]

That Woostock video was actually pretty funny!

[Mister Triscuits]

$13.74

[Yves]

$13.74

Each? Or to divide amongst them?

[markwoll]

The performance thing is a transaction between the band and the audience.
There are a whole lot of different transactions going on.
The band as a whole and each member may have different goals, money, ego puffery, fulfillment of contractual obligations ( besides the particular performance ), promotion.
The audience members. They may just want to experience a live performance. Some as a ticket punch, some as part of an obsessive all consuming mission. And every varying degree in between.
So the band/artists offers an audience the opportunity to view a performance. IMHO the band owes the audience a genuine performance of their material.
From a single person on stage with a guitar and mic, to a flamboyant staged performance in a stadium. What you see is what you get.
If there are arrangements for meet & greets, signings, on stage seating for VIP's. Well the band should make good on those arrangements.
Some of the venues I go to encourage informal meet & greets after the show, I have waited in line a couple of times to thank the performer.
I feel that, ego puffing aside, that the performer deserves to see that the audience appreciates their work.
Applause after a performance has become a rote behavior. I'm fairly certain the performers know this all too well.
I think that just saying Thank You if offered the chance goes just as far. I could be wrong.
Much of the progressive/avant music scene is pretty small and while throwing extra money at the band would probably be appreciated more, being nice probably works well for both sides of the transaction.
The nutters that are attracted to arena acts, past and present. wow. I would imagine Peart and co have seen it all. For some bands living life with security consultants, second guessing fan contact just in case. Not my idea of a good life.

[progeezer]

Certainly not. You got a problem?

Edit: I've posted twice in this thread, neither of which were intended as humor. The first was a succinct commentary on the mindset of many of the supporters of a certain candidate. The second, while certainly containing snark, was a succinct commentary on the type of fan behavior that Gruno described. I don't tend to write long dissertations, and perhaps that lends itself to misinterpretation, but I just don't have the time or fortitude for the long reply, generally speaking.

I have no problem at all, and did misinterpret your comment to me as humorous, apologies. That said, I've always given you credit for having thicker skin than that response since it was serious.

[GuitarGeek]

I don't think the artist owes the fan anything. Stephen King showed the extreme to which a fan can go in demanding from the artist in the book Misery. .

You quote the example of a work of fiction, but in real life, as I recall, Mark David Chapman professed to be a John Lennon fan. There's also the example of Rebecca Schaeffer (an actress who was shot to death by a deranged fan), and all the various stalking incidents we occasionally hear about (remember when David Letterman was being stalked, which at least gave him a fresh line of material for his monologues on a regular basis).

[rcarlberg]

Owe? The best art the artist can make, as long as s/he feels like making it.

Yes but...

Sometimes an artist feels like breaking out of expectations (John & Yoko Two Virgins, Lou Reed Metal Machine Music) and sometimes an artist wants to be somebody else for a while (Garth Brooks & Chris Gaines, Paul McCartney & The Firemen) and you have to respect their desires. Giving your "best" all the time -- especially if the performing persona is an act (Alice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne) -- can be exhausting and draining. And confining.

That's why Miles Davis kept reinventing himself. "I done that bit. Now I do sumfin diff'rent."

[moecurlythanu]

I have no problem at all, and did misinterpret your comment to me as humorous, apologies.

I was connecting your comment to something you weren't commenting on, and I was snarky, but I thought the words fit. It wasn't my intention to try and take away from the point you were making, sorry.

That said, I've always given you credit for having thicker skin than that response since it was serious.

Everybody's a little "on edge" these days, or at least so it seems to me. Might be the election, who knows? ( <-- Referring to myself there, not you.)

[señormoment]

The artist owes nothing, nor is he/she obliged to appreciate the fans. Appreciation is great, but who wants contrived appreciation? It's an individual thing, as to how friendly an artist is to fans, and subject to change. The artist's prerogative. Artists deserve respect, just like the rest of us.

[Poisoned Youth]

I was connecting your comment to something you weren't commenting on, and I was snarky, but I thought the words fit. It wasn't my intention to try and take away from the point you were making, sorry.



Everybody's a little "on edge" these days, or at least so it seems to me. Might be the election, who knows? ( <-- Referring to myself there, not you.)

Dude, I won't cross you for at least a week after that game 7.