Cardiacs--where to start?

[Progatron]

I've said it before, but I simply cannot stand those "Prog Review"s. Can't watch 'em. Terrible.

I turned a friend on to Cardiacs recently, he appears to be immersing himself in their catalogue and getting every title (is there any other way?).... most of my co-workers on the other hand, give me strange looks when I play them at work.

[arthurfrayn]

"Ah dunno.."

Yeah, well I got that.

You Brits have got your own probs with dudes like this as champions for prog rock. Good luck. Nice content devoid waste of my time that was.

Ironies abound. One is - "Is This the Life?" is the Cardiacs song that took me longest to enjoy, because it sounded it like it could have been done by anyone from that era. I like it now, but to say that's the one that stood out for you is like saying you like Phil Collins era Genesis better than Peter Gabriel era Genesis.
Second - you can go online and find the same criminally dismissive hee hee haw haw kind of reviews of acts like Vandergraf Generator from any period over the past 40 years. When does this kind of dismissive laziness work for a review of progressive music?


First and last prog review by Derek I'll ever watch and I can't stop laughing. Right self aggrandizing fanboy crap.

[NogbadTheBad]

He is a tosser who has had a major falling out with Crimson about posting their material

The Garage Concerts arrived today from Uncle Steve, going to be in heavy rotation tomorrow.

[iguana]

“sing to god” deserves no less than 0/10 ;-)> stunning album, wonder how DL would have reacted to that one. however, some people here seem to have problems with that quintessial brit sarcasm that people apply when reviewing cultural artefacts. it is sarcastic in itself that prog at large could only originate in an environment where “taking the mickey” (look that up at your own peril) out of people who take themselves just a tad too seriously is no less than a way of life. FWIW i didn't post this review for people to have a go at DL (= darren lock) but to share a view which IMHO is quite valid. “almaahatwww” is a good entry point to all things CARDiACS but if one doesn’t get past this one there is little perspective for anything further. actually it is now rather at the bottom of my favourites list (which is not saying much because i enjoy them all to their individual capacity) while “stg” is at the top – and then nothing else for a while. that’s a clear 0/10 or 10/10 depending on what sort of person you are.

for most part i find DL’s reviews very articulate and comprehensive and i applaud his english abrasive wit. remember that many prog legends took/take their music very seriously but not always themselves which is exactly how it should be. his review of DT's “metropolis2” is hilarous because i agree wholeheartedly. i am not certain how i would react if i held the album in higher esteem but such is life. plus, he had the guts to award GENESIS’ “invisible touch” full marks in declaring it their best album ever – and he is making some very cogent points. anyway, i shall continue to follow his reviews and to be offended as little as possible. fanboyism will not get us anywhere.

one final DL quote (on ASIA’s “gravitas“): “music for germans”. lovely ;-)>

[Mic Check]

Didn't see a great deal of wit or even sarcasm in evidence in that video. Reminded me of a small minded pub bore; maybe the kind with 'opinions' about 'foreigners'. Of course that's a little prejudicial. Still, music for Germans you say? But whatever, I don't need that dismal display associated in my mind with that record. It's not for him and there's no problem with that. Pearls before swine.

"i enjoy them all to their individual capacity"

Their capacity or your capacity? How can art have a limited capacity for being experienced? Makes no sense.

As for Invisible Touch being Genesis' best, hardly an unprecedented opinion. One P. Bateman would agree, I believe

[Mic Check]

He's probably a lovely fellow, but what do you expect posting such a dismissive 'appraisal'. As criticism it's really terrible.

[loosefish]

I see comments have been disabled

The first few minutes where he's umm-ing and ah-ing and i don't know-ing and saying nothing at all would have been all that's needed to get his point across imo. The rest of the 'review' is just the laziest and hackiest dismissals ("it all sounds the same. It's annoying. I don't get it"), no doubt because he feels forced to review this disc someone's sent him. He doesn't like it or get it and that's perfectly fine as an opinion, but his critique needed to stronger. In short, there's far worse things you can say about Cardiacs and more entertaining ways of slagging them off.

All you're left with is a bald bloke shrugging and rolling his eyes and suddenly laughing for 5 minutes and collecting his wifes parcels

I'm not familiar with this guy at all and i have no anger towards him (how pathetic is it to be offended by someone not liking the same things that you like?), but i've just watched his Trout Mask review and it's exactly the same (). 20 minutes of "i don't get it... i've probably got the wrong ears on...i dunno".

[arthurfrayn]

“almaahatwww” is a good entry point to all things CARDiACS but if one doesn’t get past this one there is little perspective for anything further.

Moving along from the youTube review thing, to the above -I see a lot of people pick “almaahatwww” as the entry point for people getting into the Cardiacs. But what about The Seaside as an entry point? I found that a very accessable album. It reminded me of early XTC, so the clangy bits made perfect sense. When I bought most of the records I could afford at the time, that was the one I played a lot at first.
I also confess to liking the version of RES on The Seaside better than the one on almaahatwww”, although that one has grown on me.

[loosefish]

The Seaside took me a while to get into. For a basement production job it sounds pretty good. The drums especially sound nice and 'live'.

I'd say Guns is the easiest way in, but that could be that it's the most recent album with the cleanest sounding (though in my view, not the best) and least intrusive production. Strange that they revisited some of that old skool ska sound from Seaside days on Guns, although Tim was constantly refining and updating his musical references. I was expecting LSD to sound far more like STG.

[arthurfrayn]

I see Guns as a way in. But I could also see being someone getting into that disc, and maybe moving on to STG and HBaEB, and not having a taste for earlier Cardiacs.

[iguana]

Moving along from the youTube review thing, to the above -I see a lot of people pick “almaahatwww” as the entry point for people getting into the Cardiacs. But what about The Seaside as an entry point? I found that a very accessable album. It reminded me of early XTC, so the clangy bits made perfect sense. When I bought most of the records I could afford at the time, that was the one I played a lot at first.
I also confess to liking the version of RES on The Seaside better than the one on almaahatwww”, although that one has grown on me.

funny thing is that i am reluctant to namedrop “the seaside” because jim’s vocals were still very different to the estuary snarl that he cultivated from “alm…” onwards. stellar material though, love “a wooden fish on wheels” even if only for the title!

[arthurfrayn]

Yes. That his vocal style changes from the very early material the Toyworld Alphabet Archive stuff, through Seaside and “almaahatwww” and OLaiTS, and changes yet again through HNaEB, STG and Guns is one of the interesting things about TS's approach to vocals. And yet it still sounds like him. I find that kind of charming actually. And the sound is still definitely Cardiacs. Don't know a lot of performers who would do that.

[iguana]

"i enjoy them all to their individual capacity"

Their capacity or your capacity? How can art have a limited capacity for being experienced? Makes no sense.

their capacity, re: what they represent as an entity or a waypoint in an artistic career. i should have made that clearer.

[Phlakaton]

I see Guns as a way in. But I could also see being someone getting into that disc, and maybe moving on to STG and HBaEB, and not having a taste for earlier Cardiacs.

Guns was my way in. Served me perfectly. The slightly more refined (at least to me) approach really greased the skids for my taste to change. Great album.

[arthurfrayn]

I love Guns. It's my second fav Cardiacs album right now. I would give that to people who I know would never have an interest in an album like OtLaTS and the other early stuff.
My wife really unloves the Cardiacs. The clangy, screaming, amusement park thing is totally not a match. I get it. But the other day, Jitterbug (junior is A) is on when she walks in the house, and she looked up and for the first time said with a measure of curiousity- "who is that?"
In a good way, how can you hear a thing like that and not go "wtf???"

[zombywoof]

"Wind and Rains is Cold" is one of the best things Tim ever wrote.

[arthurfrayn]

Guns love aside, a love of which I partake, I think a compilation is probably the best way to introduce people to the Cardiacs.Then you put a little of each album on for people to get an overview.
Although, it took one song, RES, for me to "get it", so they truly might be a love 'em or hate 'em kind of band. They might be the perfect example.

[zombywoof]

The opening of "A Little Man and a House" is what made me a fan.

[Phlakaton]

I love Guns. It's my second fav Cardiacs album right now. I would give that to people who I know would never have an interest in an album like OtLaTS and the other early stuff.
My wife really unloves the Cardiacs. The clangy, screaming, amusement park thing is totally not a match. I get it. But the other day, Jitterbug (junior is A) is on when she walks in the house, and she looked up and for the first time said with a measure of curiousity- "who is that?"
In a good way, how can you hear a thing like that and not go "wtf???"

Jitterbug (junior is A) was my hook. That song has a lot of excellent stuff going on.

[NogbadTheBad]

Dog Like Sparky was my initial hook.

[aith01]

Two Bites of Cherry was what hooked me initially.

[arthurfrayn]

The interesting thing about RES as "not being prog", besides it being "music for 15 years olds", is that when I first heard that I was going, "huh, this is kinda weird, little like DEVO or Residents, guy sounds and looks a bit like Mark Mothersbaugh. Visuals are kind of David Lynch" It wasn't until the long middle sequence, I said "hey wait a minute! These guys are prog!" That's why I'm inclined to believe what loosefish said earlier about an inclination in certain reviewers to listen to the first 12 seconds of a track and that's it.. The middle sequence is so not expected and so definitely prog, if you missed that, I think you didn't play it.
Since people are mentioning in fact specific sequences in tunes that are what got them, then I'd have to go further in RES, it's specifically at 3:59 where there is yet another time break after the solo. I love that break. I thought it was the most wonderful thing in the world the first time I heard it.
Actually besides Lynch the videos remind and the make up the band wears remind a bit of the movie Carnival of Souls. People here see that one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUePiQJJCI

[Steve F.]

The Mare's Nest video was my entrance in.

[mx20]

I can't seem to enjoy this band. Perhaps one day I'll try again (for the nth time)? Cheers.

[zombywoof]

The interesting thing about RES as "not being prog", besides it being "music for 15 years olds", is that when I first heard that I was going, "huh, this is kinda weird, little like DEVO or Residents, guy sounds and looks a bit like Mark Mothersbaugh.

I'd never call it music for 15 year olds - but then, when I was 15 I was probably binging like mad on the likes of the Mothers of Invention - but what Cardiacs do have is a childishness that is so endearing. However, the phrase 'music for 15 year olds' probably says more about the reviewer than it does about Cardiacs.

Two Bites of Cherry was what hooked me initially.

My second listen. My reaction was "this is like Little Man only proggier and punkier".

The one that I hated first time around and took me many listens to appreciate was Sing to God. I love it now.