Cardiacs--where to start?

[zombywoof]

Your 8 year old and I have a lot in common.

*pop*

By the way, I'm a mediocre, totally beginner guitarist and I'm just learning chords, so not quite doable for me yet!

[chalkpie]

I love it too, don't get me wrong!

[zombywoof]

I think it's awesome your 8 year old loves a Cardiacs tune! When I was 8, I liked anything that sparked my imagination in any way - in fact, I still do.

[smcfee]

I've never understood the negative thoughts about Guns. All Tim's stuff is as good as all his other stuff. Guns is no exception.

Was the first one I ever heard so it certainly worked on me. I didn't find it so much "pronk" as subversive pop/rock, as in "here's a hook, and we are going to do crazy things to it". Whatever the actual intention was, it reeled me in.

Ian, "Wind and rains is cold", along with "Spell with a shell", were the two that sealed the deal.

[zombywoof]

Totally agree on your assessment of Guns

[Gazoinks]

Plus I discovered I love Foundling this past week. "Here comes the bride, no one knows where she came from" - who writes this stuff? I take back the thing I said earlier about Tims words being nonsense; merely most of them are - but not all. There's some serious haunting going on there and it fascinates me to no end what he could be talking about.

I think one of the most genius things about Tim's lyrics is the way he'll write a bunch of stuff that doesn't make linear sense, and then throw in one or two really clear, poignant lines that tie the whole thing together. It's a really interesting technique.

[aith01]

I've never understood the negative thoughts about Guns. All Tim's stuff is as good as all his other stuff. Guns is no exception.

Yeah, Guns does not deserve the negative things I've seen directed at it in certain circles. So many great tunes, hooks aplenty, and some genuinely astonishing compositions. I listened to it twice back to back in a single sitting this evening, and that is a rare thing (for me).

In fact, in the last five weeks since first hearing On Land..., there has not been a day where I didn't play something by Cardiacs when listening to music in some capacity (home, in the car, or on headphones).

[aith01]

[...] Also the bit where Sharon sings "Hate hand take the soul through drizzle ditch
And the wormy garden vegetable garden bitch"...oh man.....those harmonic progressions are just unreal, and then the melody/progression that directly follows it. Well, there's the whole tune I guess. This tune does not unsuck.

Yep. One of my favorite moments from Guns.

[Gazoinks]

I've always really liked Ain't He Messy Though, a song I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about.

[loosefish]

Count me in as a non fan of HB&EB. It just lacks any ability to grab me and shake me. Maybe it's the production. The tunes seem alright, but the presentation (particularly the way the drums are mixed) lacks the magic, IMO. It's my least favorite thing in the catalog by far. Day is Gone EP lacks the loudness problem, but still has all the other problems. Still, I'd like to hear HB&EB mixed with the dynamics that the EP has.

Sorry Frank, I'll keep trying. Maybe someone can jump in and help me appreciate this thing. It's the only Cardiacs album I'm not madly in love with.

This has been mentioned many times, but in case you didn't know, the HBAEB production job was originally a lot less spiky and abrasive (more like the single in fact). It also had a different cover. This was the one released on Rough Trade who then almost immediately went bankrupt and the album was almost impossible to find until the reissue in '95 which was remastered by Tim who, in a move i'll never understand, turned up the dials and pushed everything into the red. It's still a great album, but the first mix is much, much clearer and has way more dynamic range imo.

Someone from the Cardiacs forum once emailed Tim about it, who said

Hello, is it too loud?

When it was mastered originally it was done at abby road. When we re-mastered it in 95 or whenever it was, we were told it was allowed to be a bit louder so we put the speakers in a bucket and put a mic on the bucket so we could turn it up a bit and we did.

As for the distortion you mention, we hoped no one would notice because some one didn't take the drawing pin out of the bucket and it must have been rattling all about but it was too late for us to correct this because we were kicked out for behaving in a spiteful way.

Hope this helps...

Timmy xxx

So... er there you are then

afaik the version available on itunes is the original mix (with the original cover), but i've never had that confirmed.

[chalkpie]

I think it's awesome your 8 year old loves a Cardiacs tune! When I was 8, I liked anything that sparked my imagination in any way - in fact, I still do.

Thx man. Another tune he has been humming recently is "Bug from Heaven" (OceanLandWorld). One day he just started singing it - these melodies stick with you for days.

[zombywoof]

I'm aware of the earlier mastering of Heaven Born and I do own it digitally. I'll play it again soon, but if memory serves, I didn't think it was all that different at all.

[Morpheus]

I place Heaven Born least among their albums, not bad but less highs to be found, however, I do think the original mix absolutely slays the newer one. As much as I love STG, I think the production is a bit in the red there as well, it is rough on the ears through headphones. Guns seemed to roll off the volume a bit.

[Steve F.]

I've never understood the negative thoughts about Guns. All Tim's stuff is as good as all his other stuff. Guns is no exception.

Truly a R Stevie Moore-ian way of looking at things.

[Lieto]

I really like a lot fo the tunes on HB&EB but the production is too darn loud. The Vinyl mix however does sound better to these ears. And Guns is a masterpiece

[smcfee]

Truly a R Stevie Moore-ian way of looking at things.

At least he called you "legendary". Normally to get that adjective you must be booked to play a prog festival.

[Steve F.]

At least he called you "legendary". Normally to get that adjective you must be booked to play a prog festival.

[chalkpie]

Two random tunes I am becoming very addicted to (meaning I play them each 3 or 4 times in succession):

"Mare's Nest" (the tune) and "Hello Mr Sparrow" (this tune is so fucking bad-ass!!)

Last week it was "No Bright Side".

[eadric]

HB&EB has this great feel of 'right, we'll show you lot, we'll write a fantastic pop record and it'll sell a million copies'. It's got such swagger!

[aith01]

Two random tunes I am becoming very addicted to (meaning I play them each 3 or 4 times in succession):

"Mare's Nest" (the tune) and "Hello Mr Sparrow" (this tune is so fucking bad-ass!!)

Last week it was "No Bright Side".

Mare's Nest is brilliant. One of my faves from On Land... for sure. Love the beginning of that tune; so theatrical with the piano melody and then those big synth chords coming in behind. The whole song has this insistent bombast that's just irresistible.

Don't have Hello Mr. Sparrow yet...

[chalkpie]

HB&EB has this great feel of 'right, we'll show you lot, we'll write a fantastic pop record and it'll sell a million copies'. It's got such swagger!

[chalkpie]

One thing that is crazy about this is that Bob Leith does this snare fill (at 6:35) right before they go into the amazing double-time part. He could've taken the easy route knowing the insane part is coming and just kept it simple mentally preparing himself, but he goes f'ing balls-out. Tremendous musician just based on that 1 or 2 seconds.

[loosefish]

^that's my favourite bit too. As far as little Leafy goes, how the fuck do you play to a click track of this fucking nonsense?!

Had my friend (the only person i know in 'real' life who likes them) play STG through his huge PA system the other day. It was like hearing it for the first time. So many intricate details and noises bubbling away under the mix. It's long been my favourite album of all time, but to reiterate, i really wouldn't change a damn second of the thing. All kinds of awesome, in the true 'filling you with awe' sense of the word.

Even hearing it very, very loudly though, i still can't tell what Jon's shouting in the Manhoo breakdown. Sounds like "Stewie STEWIE!"

I have no idea whether there has been any documentation of the studio process (but knowing Tim i suspect there has been), but i'd love to see an hour long documentary of the STG recording sessions. How great to see Jim and his wife playing the garden shears on Wireless

[chalkpie]

^that's my favourite bit too. As far as little Leafy goes, how the fuck do you play to a click track of this fucking nonsense?!

Had my friend (the only person i know in 'real' life who likes them) play STG through his huge PA system the other day. It was like hearing it for the first time. So many intricate details and noises bubbling away under the mix. It's long been my favourite album of all time, but to reiterate, i really wouldn't change a damn second of the thing. All kinds of awesome, in the true 'filling you with awe' sense of the word.

Even hearing it very, very loudly though, i still can't tell what Jon's shouting in the Manhoo breakdown. Sounds like "Stewie STEWIE!"

I have no idea whether there has been any documentation of the studio process (but knowing Tim i suspect there has been), but i'd love to see an hour long documentary of the STG recording sessions. How great to see Jim and his wife playing the garden shears on Wireless

That's great man! Never heard it BIG like that.

And yes, any footage from StG....hell any recording would be priceless, but especially StG. Tim's production skills by that point were ridiculous - the eyebrows on that thing is staggering.

[zombywoof]

I really need to play Cardiacs on a real system soon. I always have to hide them in earphones or in the car.