Phil Collins would have quit Genesis for The Who!

[Rufus]

http://teamrock.com/news/2016-10-21/...is-for-the-who

[Dave the Brave]

If true at least The Who would have had a decent drummer.

Go ahead have at me, but Moon sucked.

Altho I always maintained he was the perfect drummer for the band.DtB

[lovecraft]

I'm no musician but I understand he was useless at keeping time. But, hell, he is entertaining to listen to....

[JJ88]

An old story. This was mentioned in Chapter And Verse, about 10 years ago. It would also have been in that late 70s time where Genesis were sort of up in the air anyway, due to Phil's marital problems.

On a technical level it could be argued that Keith Moon is far from perfect. But he was the perfect drummer for that band, I just love his all-over-the-drumkit playing on their records, and Kenney Jones' by-the-book timekeeping was wrong IMHO.

[popeyebonaparte]

Moon is my favourite drummer of all time! Horses for courses...

[ThomasKDye]

It would also have been in that late 70s time where Genesis were sort of up in the air anyway, due to Phil's marital problems.

That would make sense. Genesis were in the wilderness (so to speak) after "And Then There Were Three." Phil's aforementioned marital problems combined with a gruelling American tour, plus Banks and Rutherford (not to mention Collins) being at a low creative ebb would have made quitting the band for a more exciting option viable. What would have been interesting is whether or not Collins would have charged Townshend up any to keep the Who going. Collins' energy and vitality put Genesis back on its feet after Phillips' departure. Would he have been a go-getter, teamed up with Daltrey and Entwistle, and inspired Townshend to make the band his first priority again? It's a fascinating what-if.

[ThomasKDye]

But ultimately he would have just been a sideman, and he was just beginning to write more prolifically during this period.

Yeah, I think that basically says it. If he'd written "Face Value" around this time, The Who would have ended up spitting out "Face Dances" and "It's Hard" and disbanded anyway.

[Sterbus]

I'm no musician but I understand he was useless at keeping time.

But then Pete Townshend stated that he was able to play over the Baba O'Riley synth line live without the need to use a click...

[Svetonio]

Pete Townshend mentioned that episode in one of diaries at former petetownshend.com
Phil Collins asked Townshend to be The Who drummer after the death of Keith Moon in 1978, but Townshend called Kenny Jones to sit on that hot chair.
So, when the hardcore The Who fans mentioned Phil Collins, they often were joking and call him "I-Wanna-Be-Your-Drummer-Collins", lol.
Personally, I think that it was a mistake by Mr Townshend.

[Svetonio]

If true at least The Who would have had a decent drummer.

Go ahead have at me, but Moon sucked.

Altho I always maintained he was the perfect drummer for the band.DtB

Zak Starkey is also perfect drummer for The Who ("The Two" actually).

[Big Ears]

Keith Moon was an excellent drummer. Much of The Who material would not have sounded as distinctive without him.

[JKL2000]

He needs to be shown what the world would be like if he'd done that, like in It's a Wonderful Life. He'd probably be broke now.

"Whoa, everything's going all wavy...!"

"According to Peter Thelen's PROG Magazine, Genesis, with recently rejoined drummer Bill Bruford, has just released the 3CD The Lamb Lies Back Down on Broadway!," and it's clearly the band's most progressive album ever - all killer, no filler!"

[Svetonio]

He needs to be shown what the world would be like if he'd done that, like in It's a Wonderful Life. He'd probably be broke now.

"Whoa, everything's going all wavy...!"

"According to Peter Thelen's PROG Magazine, Genesis, with recently rejoined drummer Bill Bruford, has just released the 3CD The Lamb Lies Back Down on Broadway!," and it's clearly the band's most progressive album ever - all killer, no filler!"

Probably John Mayhew would have rejoined the band for Trespass Vol.2

[wilcox660]

Gee, what else in the world did not happen?

[Svetonio]

Perhaps Christopher Stewart would have rejoined the band for From Genesis to Revelation and Back

[GuitarGeek]

What would have been interesting is whether or not Collins would have charged Townshend up any to keep the Who going. Collins' energy and vitality put Genesis back on its feet after Phillips' departure. Would he have been a go-getter, teamed up with Daltrey and Entwistle, and inspired Townshend to make the band his first priority again? It's a fascinating what-if.

I doubt it. Pete's songwriting was changing, writing a lot of stuff that I don't think would have been right for The Who, and whomever was sitting on the drum riser wasn't going to change that. I think Pete was also changing as a person, getting fed up with his status as "gravity defying guitar hero" versus simply being an "Artist", the latter being how he wanted to be viewed.

Furthermore, I don't think Phil could have handled the personalities of the other three. The Who was one of the most dysfunctional bands ever. Fistfights were known to breakout between the musicians, with Daltrey reportedly knocking Townshend flat on his ass on at least one occasion. So, Phil may have loved their music, but I'm not sure he'd have lasted more than one rehearsal. That state of things didn't really change until after The Who finally ground to a halt.

[GuitarGeek]

Pete Townshend mentioned that episode in one of diaries at former petetownshend.com
Phil Collins asked Townshend to be The Who drummer after the death of Keith Moon in 1978, but Townshend called Kenny Jones to sit on that hot chair.
So, when the hardcore The Who fans mentioned Phil Collins, they often were joking and call him "I-Wanna-Be-Your-Drummer-Collins", lol.
Personally, I think that it was a mistake by Mr Townshend.

The mistake, perhaps, was not breaking the band up immediately after Keith died. But perhaps they had contractual obligations that prevented them from breaking up just yet.

Kenney Jones was chosen because he was a friend of the band going all the way back to the early Mod days, and a friend of Keith's (in fact, there's photos of Keith and Kenney hanging out the night before Keith died, at a party thrown by Paul McCartney for the UK opening of The Buddy Holly Story). I think he was chosen because he was more or less from within the band's inner circle, and I guess in the emotional state the other three were in at the time, they probably more inclined to go with Kenney rather than someone who they viewed as an "outsider". They probably also felt that this way they weren't really replacing Keith, so much as just getting someone to fill in for him.

Personally, I never thought the drummer was the weak link in circa 1979-1982 The Who, but rather the guitarist. He was obviously bored with being in a band, bored with the status he had achieved (especially since, as one gets older, it becomes harder and harder to do all those acrobatic stunts he did), and was already suffering from hearing loss (as he jokes about in The Kids Are Alright film). He was also probably sick of the non-stop infighting that often times occurred behind closed doors, particularly with Daltrey.

I also think, Townshend, Entwistle, and Daltrey probably started losing the willpower to keep the band going after awhile. Not only because of Keith dying, but also things like the Cincinnati debacle, and also the assorted bad habits of both Townshend and Entwistle (Townshend started doing I think heroin after Keith died, and as we eventually found out, Entwistle also had a cocaine problem, too).

[GuitarGeek]

But then Pete Townshend stated that he was able to play over the Baba O'Riley synth line live without the need to use a click...

Yeah, because playing three damn chords is really hard isn't it?!

Keith would have been fired from any other band, for his presumable inability to play straight rhythm the way every other drummer did. But thing is, he didn't just thrash away at the drumkit with no regard for the rest of the song. If you listen to any version of Baba O'Riley, for instanc,e he plays essentially the same part, save for the fills here and there. And I can't remember who it was, but I remember watching one documentary on TV where someone (either Daltrey or Entwistle, I think) saying that if you put up the multi-tracks for any given song, and soloed the drums (ie muting all the melodic instruments and vocals) you could still tell which song you were listening to, because Keith followed what the others were playing. IN other words, his drum parts would follow the vocal or the guitar riff or whatever.

[GuitarGeek]

I'm actually more intrigued by Phil's suggestion that he talked to Jon Anderson about possibly joining Yes. Apparently, there was a point, I gather when the original Yes lineup was still together, where Bruford was talking of quitting and going back to university. Phil had heard about this, so he went to a Yesshow somewhere and got backstage, and mentioned that he was interested in the position, and Anderson told him to "Give us a call and come down for an audition". But Phil never followed through, and as it happened, Bruford decided to continue putting up with Squire's perpetual tardiness for another couple years.

[Svetonio]

The mistake, perhaps, was not breaking the band up immediately after Keith died. But perhaps they had contractual obligations that prevented them from breaking up just yet.

Kenney Jones was chosen because he was a friend of the band going all the way back to the early Mod days, and a friend of Keith's (in fact, there's photos of Keith and Kenney hanging out the night before Keith died, at a party thrown by Paul McCartney for the UK opening of The Buddy Holly Story). I think he was chosen because he was more or less from within the band's inner circle, and I guess in the emotional state the other three were in at the time, they probably more inclined to go with Kenney rather than someone who they viewed as an "outsider". They probably also felt that this way they weren't really replacing Keith, so much as just getting someone to fill in for him.

Personally, I never thought the drummer was the weak link in circa 1979-1982 The Who, but rather the guitarist. He was obviously bored with being in a band, bored with the status he had achieved (especially since, as one gets older, it becomes harder and harder to do all those acrobatic stunts he did), and was already suffering from hearing loss (as he jokes about in The Kids Are Alright film). He was also probably sick of the non-stop infighting that often times occurred behind closed doors, particularly with Daltrey.

I also think, Townshend, Entwistle, and Daltrey probably started losing the willpower to keep the band going after awhile. Not only because of Keith dying, but also things like the Cincinnati debacle, and also the assorted bad habits of both Townshend and Entwistle (Townshend started doing I think heroin after Keith died, and as we eventually found out, Entwistle also had a cocaine problem, too).

Yeah, Pete Townshend explained that he was to choose Kenny Jones due to his mod days.
Pete Townshend also said in his diaries that Keith Moon was de facto expelled from the band - shortly before his death - because he was lost for the band due to his alcoholism; that there weren't rehab centres at that time, that Keith Moon couldn't play anymore and that only problem for other three was how to explain that to their army of the hardcore fans.

[ThomasKDye]

Furthermore, I don't think Phil could have handled the personalities of the other three. The Who was one of the most dysfunctional bands ever. Fistfights were known to breakout between the musicians, with Daltrey reportedly knocking Townshend flat on his ass on at least one occasion. So, Phil may have loved their music, but I'm not sure he'd have lasted more than one rehearsal.

"Oh, my God, I never would have thought two passive-aggressive public school nancy boys would look quite so good..."

The mistake, perhaps, was not breaking the band up immediately after Keith died.

Eh, I like "You Better You Bet" and I'm not afraid to admit it. It wouldn't have been the same without Roger singing it, too.

[Paulrus]

Keith would have been fired from any other band, for his presumable inability to play straight rhythm the way every other drummer did. But thing is, he didn't just thrash away at the drumkit with no regard for the rest of the song. If you listen to any version of Baba O'Riley, for instanc,e he plays essentially the same part, save for the fills here and there. And I can't remember who it was, but I remember watching one documentary on TV where someone (either Daltrey or Entwistle, I think) saying that if you put up the multi-tracks for any given song, and soloed the drums (ie muting all the melodic instruments and vocals) you could still tell which song you were listening to, because Keith followed what the others were playing. IN other words, his drum parts would follow the vocal or the guitar riff or whatever.

IMO Keith was the prototypical "lead drummer" that guys like Neil Peart were inspired by. It's one of the reasons why I classify The Who as a proto-prog band.

[Svetonio]

Keith Moon was an excellent drummer. Much of The Who material would not have sounded as distinctive without him.

Keth Moon was a GREAT drummer for The Who, but the truth is also that he wasn't able - as per Mr Townshend' statement - to play everything at demand as well.
This is from a great article by Richard Buskin, where Jon Astley said some quite interesting things about making Who Are You the album (the last great The Who album that was very attractively produced by Jon Astley):
" (...) The only thing on which he couldn't play, which Pete warned me about, was 'Music Must Change'. Pete said 'It's in 6/8 and he doesn't feel 6/8. He never has, he never will. Don't even go there.' He was right. We ended up putting footsteps on the track. On Pete's demo he was walking around in a circle, and had it been quadraphonic it would have been wonderful to listen to — you could hear his squeaky shoes, and the sound of him walking around in a circle was the pace of the record (...) "
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniqu...ho-are-you-who

[Trane]

An old story. This was mentioned in Chapter And Verse, about 10 years ago. It would also have been in that late 70s time where Genesis were sort of up in the air anyway, due to Phil's marital problems.

On a technical level it could be argued that Keith Moon is far from perfect. But he was the perfect drummer for that band, I just love his all-over-the-drumkit playing on their records, and Kenney Jones' by-the-book timekeeping was wrong IMHO.

yup, FD was not good at all (crappy songs, IMHO), but I'd have loved to hear it with a healthy Loon rather than a boring to death KJ

That would make sense. Genesis were in the wilderness (so to speak) after "And Then There Were Three." Phil's aforementioned marital problems combined with a gruelling American tour, plus Banks and Rutherford (not to mention Collins) being at a low creative ebb would have made quitting the band for a more exciting option viable.

I understood that Collins' marital problems were prior and during ATTWT (rather than after), when the band was in danger of losing both Hackett and Collins. But wasn't Phil considering quitting rock altogether (hence moving to Vancouver -see the track, who sounds more like W&W than ATTWT or Duke)

The mistake, perhaps, was not breaking the band up immediately after Keith died. But perhaps they had contractual obligations that prevented them from breaking up just yet.

Personally, I never thought the drummer was the weak link in circa 1979-1982 The Who, but rather the guitarist. He was obviously bored with being in a band, bored with the status he had achieved (especially since, as one gets older, it becomes harder and harder to do all those acrobatic stunts he did), and was already suffering from hearing loss (as he jokes about in The Kids Are Alright film). He was also probably sick of the non-stop infighting that often times occurred behind closed doors, particularly with Daltrey.

I also think, Townshend, Entwistle, and Daltrey probably started losing the willpower to keep the band going after awhile. Not only because of Keith dying, but also things like the Cincinnati debacle, and also the assorted bad habits of both Townshend and Entwistle (Townshend started doing I think heroin after Keith died, and as we eventually found out, Entwistle also had a cocaine problem, too).

Yup, they should've done as Zep did a couple years later, when Bonham also died.

And as much as Townshend was often irked at Loon (especially after that stage explosion Loon, which caused permanent hearing loss), it seems that he was kind of lost in the band once Loon wasn't there anymore... That's kind of obvious since his solo albums were better than those Who albums (except for the great Eminence Front)

But Phil never followed through, and as it happened, Bruford decided to continue putting up with Squire's perpetual tardiness for another couple years.

Yup, I understood that Squire's conduct in the band profoundly irritated Broof, as did Jon's ability to turn a palace into a pigsty within 24h

[Svetonio]

(...) a boring to death KJ (...)

(...)

"boring to death" he certainly wasn't...



This is a song that Keith Moon wasn't able to play due to 6/8 time.








At Drowned, probably the best song from Her Majesty The Quad, KJ was better at live perfomances than Keith Moon.








KJ was better with Entwistle's hard-rock songs like this one from Face Dances