CAN: later albums worth checking out?

[pb2015]

I listened to the first track of the s/t album at work today. It's okay but Karoli on vocals makes me miss Damo. Never became a big fan of Landed for the same reason.

[GuitarGeek]

There is a very good official live double CD from that tour with Cul De Sac, I don't know if you knew ?

I'll have to look for that. I've got one double CD that he was selling on that show, but he was backed by other musicians on it, I think one of them being Karoli.

[Nashorn]

I haven't heard Rite Time, but their track from around that time "Last Night Sleep" from the Until The End Of The World soundtrack was pretty nice.

That's one of my favorite songs by Can.

[spacefreak]

I have this, but I haven't listened to it in so long, I don't remember much about it. Has it ever been issued on CD? I know I got it in the mid 90's, because one of the names mentioned on the cover, I thik the producer, was named Kevorkian, and I remember joking with someone at the record store about it being a relative of Jack Kevorkian (the "right to death" advocate who built a "suicide machine" for those with terminal illnesses). In the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off, one of the poster's in his bedroom is of the Snake Charmer cover.

Yes, Kevorkian is his name, a french/armenian producer & DJ who has a quite a reputation in the eurodisco and electronic dance scenes. He's the only individual having permissionby the band itself, to release Kraftwerk remixes. If I remember well, apart from producing, he also played some electronics on Snake Charmer and co-wrote some of the music, but I have to dig out the album to confirm it.

It is not on CD. Accompanying musicians were those to consist Invaders of the Heart, some years later. There is also another collaboration between Jah Wobble, Jaki Liebezeit & Czukay, the single How Much Are They? (dedicated to Joy Division's Ian Curtis) but it's been ages since I've heard it.

[kitaj]

Kevorkian is also mix engineer on many major label '80s releases, 'So Red the Rose' by Duran Duran offshoot Arcadia being my favourite among them.

back on topic, I absolutely love Saw Delight and don't understand how one can think ill of that album/phase. it's Talking Heads three years before Remain in Light, and it clearly fed into Czukay's Movies album (which in turn inspired Byrne/Eno's much more celebrated My Life in the Bush of Ghosts). but even letting these historical considerations aside, the new Can on there sounds tight and joyful. in my estimation, Don't Say No (the 'single') is a superior re-write of Moonshake. totally worthy of a rediscover, that album. that line-up reshuffle should be more celebrated - the Can DVD offers a glimpse to its near-greatness by way of a couple of live-in-studio German TV guestings, where one can see how Holger operated in his new guise as master-of-machines (at one time during Don't Say No he apparently calls a home number only to sample the lady asking, "Hallo? Who's that on the phone?" and feed that back into the sonic maelstrom).
IMO, the post-punk critics and the hip '90s noise-rocker fans are to blame for an excessive spotlight on the early Can to the detriment and the current relative obscurity of such later Can gems. maybe the end product (the albums) of that phase were not all gold, but what they were trying to achieve (the process) has always been more important with them, I think.

I also like the self-titled 1979 one, and the reunion album (Rite Time) as well - I like that one precisely because it's like a totally different band.

Holger's Movies is great, as are the next couple of albums (and On the Way to the Peak of Normal is possibly even better). but then I also love later Czukay, such as Moving Pictures (1993) or Good Morning Story (1999). the former is in the vein of his two late-80s albums with Sylvian, and the latter is kind-of a Movies for the turn of the millennium, very creative and very engaging.

Cannibalism 3 is a good late-90s compilation of solo Can tracks for who's interested in exploring that.

[spacefreak]

but what they were trying to achieve (the process) has always been more important with them, I think..

Right, but after all these years and the detachment that passing time brings to the actual proceedings, it's the end product that counts; even for those of us that were there in the first place. We can still understand but not appreciate, to the extent we did 30 years ago.

[Svetonio]

(...)

back on topic, I absolutely love Saw Delight and don't understand how one can think ill of that album/phase. it's Talking Heads three years before Remain in Light, (...)

Exactly, lol.

[Big Ears]

I though Flow Motion, or at least the material from that era, was the best played live.

[viukkis]

Saw Delight was my first Can album. I thought it was really nice and wondered why it has such a bad reputation. Then I heard the Suzuki era albums and realized that Can used to be capable of so much more than just "really nice" music.

[JAMOOL]

IMO the production nerfs it - if they'd cleaned it up and added a bit of punch it would be pretty damn good - proto Remain in Light indeed!

[GuitarGeek]

IMO the production nerfs it - if they'd cleaned it up and added a bit of punch it would be pretty damn good - proto Remain in Light indeed!

If you're talking about Saw Delight, I believe it was recorded using the "Artificial Head" system, which was an early version of binaural recording, whereby a mannequin head is fitted with a pair of microphones, placed where the ears are, which is was meant to allow recording that simulated the way humans hears sounds. I think. Edgar Froese also used the Artificial Head system on his first solo album, Aqua.

How that was supposed to work, I'm not sure. Is the music played live, with the mannequin head placed in such a fashion that the mics pickup all the instruments. Or is the music played back through a PA after recording, and then recording using the binaural mics? (shrug)

[JAMOOL]

hah, I had no easy about that. sounds silly to be honest. I'm just talking about (for example) the total lack of a real low end.

[olivetti]

If you're talking about Saw Delight, I believe it was recorded using the "Artificial Head" system, which was an early version of binaural recording, whereby a mannequin head is fitted with a pair of microphones, placed where the ears are, which is was meant to allow recording that simulated the way humans hears sounds. I think. Edgar Froese also used the Artificial Head system on his first solo album, Aqua.

How that was supposed to work, I'm not sure. Is the music played live, with the mannequin head placed in such a fashion that the mics pickup all the instruments. Or is the music played back through a PA after recording, and then recording using the binaural mics? (shrug)

And Flow motion

[Progbear]

If you're talking about Saw Delight, I believe it was recorded using the "Artificial Head" system, which was an early version of binaural recording, whereby a mannequin head is fitted with a pair of microphones, placed where the ears are, which is was meant to allow recording that simulated the way humans hears sounds. I think. Edgar Froese also used the Artificial Head system on his first solo album, Aqua.

The Artificial Head/Dummy Head system was a big deal in Germany (no big surprise, since it was a German company—Sennheiser—that developed the system). Several albums had stickers reading “mit Kunstkopfeffekten” (with Artificial Head effects) on the front. My copy of Jane’s Fire, Water, Earth & Air had that sticker on it.

The only non-German album I know with the dummy head would be Godley & Creme’s Consequences. There’s pictures in the booklet showing them messing around with the dummy head (dumping dirt on it for the burial scene, for example).

[GuitarGeek]

The Artificial Head/Dummy Head system was a big deal in Germany (no big surprise, since it was a German company—Sennheiser—that developed the system). Several albums had stickers reading “mit Kunstkopfeffekten” (with Artificial Head effects) on the front. My copy of Jane’s Fire, Water, Earth & Air had that sticker on it.

And in the case of Froese's Aqua, there was even a notation suggesting you listen to the record on headphones, "to fully appreciate the effect of the Artificial Head System". Had no idea it had been developed by Sennheiser, though.

The only non-German album I know with the dummy head would be Godley & Creme’s Consequences. There’s pictures in the booklet showing them messing around with the dummy head (dumping dirt on it for the burial scene, for example).

Well, it figures that Consequences would feature it. I'm gonna have to hear that record someday. I've only been hearing it about it for the last 33 years.

So exactly how does the Artificial Head System work? Is the music played back then recorded again through the dummy head mics, or what?

[olivetti]

So exactly how does the Artificial Head System work? I

google is your friend! :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_head_recording

[spacefreak]

The whole Delta-Acustic label had been set up to promote the "artificial head" recordings. Some obscure krautrock classics on this one, like Sand and Code III.

[spacefreak]

I though Flow Motion, or at least the material from that era, was the best played live.

Flow Motion and Out of Reach are the worst Can albums. Unlistenable; then, now and forever...

[Scrotum Scissor]

Flow Motion and Out of Reach are the worst Can albums.

I agree. Although they and, to be honest, Can, are their only consistently bad albums. I actually find a bit to enjoy on Saw Delight, although it's a huge drop already from Landed - which was a fall itself from Babaluna.

But then again we're talking of what was once one of the most alarmingly creative rock bands in the world. The more I hear of Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi or Future Days, the more fascinated and amazed I get by them. None of those albums have aged a second since I first heard them as a youngster - if anything, they're getting all the more refreshing.

[GuitarGeek]

google is your friend!

Sorry, I just find that meme to be massively annoying. It's like it's too damn simple to at least copy/paste the theoretically relevant information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_head_recording

Thanks for posting a link I'm already familiar with, and which totally fails to answer my question.

I can see how it would work if you were recording acoustic music, say a string quartet, or a small jazz group or orchestra, or even for recording ambient sound effects. That's simple enough.

But how does it work with electric music, where some instruments aren't amplified (eg electric keyboards fed directly into the recording console), or where there's overdubs? Certainly a record like Edgar Froese's Aqua must have had a lot of electric/electronic instruments that weren't being amplified via speakers in the studio (to say nothing of the overdubs).

Do you play the finished music back through a PA with the dummy head mics recording it or what? Is what we're talking about analogous to a audience concert recording, albeit in a much more controlled environment?

[chalkpie]

Sort of O/T for this particular thread, but besides being obsessed with Future Days (and "Bel Air" specifically), I am also really digging Soon Over Babaluma. A lot. "Quantum Physics" is definitely fantastic. Any fans of this particular album?

[Mister Triscuits]

Sort of O/T for this particular thread, but besides being obsessed with Future Days (and "Bel Air" specifically), I am also really digging Soon Over Babaluma. A lot. "Quantum Physics" is definitely fantastic. Any fans of this particular album?

Absolutely. Babaluma, Future Days, and the fantastic Ege Bamyasi are my top 3.

[Tom]

Absolutely. Babaluma, Future Days, and the fantastic Ege Bamyasi are my top 3.

I have to go with Tago Mago -- though, as it's the only one I actually own, maybe it is just most familiar. Disc 1 is just OK but I love "Aumgn" and "Peking O". Wild, weird and wonderful.

[infandous]

I need to get more of their albums. I've heard them all multiple times (up through Babaluma......possibly even the self titled, can't recall) as a friend bought every album he could find by them after discovering them and I borrowed them all from him. That was at least 15 years ago though. The one that left the most impression on me was Future Days, so that is the single Can album I own. I suspect I should probably also have Ege Bamyasi and Tago Mago, at a minimum. I have some sort of Holger Czukay solo album done with another person, but I can't remember anything about it.......have to dig that one out and see what it is and maybe give it another spin (don't remember if I liked it or not.........got it cheap as a used CD many years ago when I worked at a CD store).

[Progatron]

Interesting... since starting this thread a while back, I have mostly completed my CAN collection with all of their studio output (Delay 1968 through to Rite Time) as well as Unlimited Edition, The Lost Tapes and the recently released The Singles. Despite some of the later albums not even holding a candle to the classic first six or so, I found a decent amount to like on each album. No regrets in expanding the collection of this band!

I'd like to get the BBC Sessions, but I don't know if there's really much beyond that that I need. I'm open to further suggestions...