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  1. #151
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    Surely it would be like grading a book on the quality of the printing. It could be a brand new book, never opened, but poorly printed. Surely that is the analogy being made with the poorly pressed LP? Surely we've all had the experience of buying a brand new album, factory fresh, but plays like crap?

  2. #152
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Uh, no.

    Grading an LP on how it plays would be like grading a paperback on underlining, highlighting, bent or torn pages, stained cover....
    Yes, that's exactly right. That's how a used book is graded. Grading a used LP does not mean grading it on the intrinsic values of the product itself, it means grading it on the condition of the used item.

    Does anyone aside from rcarlberg disagree with that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie B View Post
    Surely it would be like grading a book on the quality of the printing.
    Yes, that's better than what I said. I meant grading it based on something other than the condition of the copy, but you're correct.

  3. #153
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You have a very weird idea of what grading is.
    Well, I just got into this last week when I borrowed some of my Uncle's old vinyl records. Can you believe they actually named a band Yes back then?

  4. #154
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post

    Does anyone aside from rcarlberg disagree with that?
    Usually a good indicator that you're on the right track.
    Last edited by moecurlythanu; 05-03-2018 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Forgot wink

  5. #155
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Reason: forgot wink
    Wink: forgot reason

  6. #156
    Funny last few posts...
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  7. #157
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Advanced Navel Gazing

    (and that includes myself*)


    *Steve Wislon reference

  8. #158
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    Got all of my orders within a week, all as described.

    I am pleased.

  9. #159
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camelogue View Post
    Got all of my orders within a week, all as described.
    And I’m sure they all look great mounted up on the wall.

  10. #160
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    How come Discogs gives you the highest, lowest, and median price an item has sold for, but not the NUMBER of units sold? Or do they and I'm missing it?

    I noticed this when looking and seeing that I WAY overpayed for an item once. It was sold to me by Meidad Zaharia, who used to be on PE and sold off all his stock when he shut down his label MIO Records. It was that Magical Power Mako box set: the highest it's sold for on Discogs is $63, and he sold it to me for $200! He said it was his last copy. It was probably sort of an emotional thing for him - HE thought it was worth $200. Water under the bridge, but it's irritating! Of course, maybe the retail price was $200 when it was in print.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    How come Discogs gives you the highest, lowest, and median price an item has sold for, but not the NUMBER of units sold? Or do they and I'm missing it?

    I noticed this when looking and seeing that I WAY overpayed for an item once. It was sold to me by Meidad Zaharia, who used to be on PE and sold off all his stock when he shut down his label MIO Records. It was that Magical Power Mako box set: the highest it's sold for on Discogs is $63, and he sold it to me for $200! He said it was his last copy. It was probably sort of an emotional thing for him - HE thought it was worth $200. Water under the bridge, but it's irritating! Of course, maybe the retail price was $200 when it was in print.
    The last dozen or so sales of the item are accessible, so you can certainly check what something has been selling for. Also, that "median" number doesn't mean much, because it accounts for all sales - items in poor condition as well as mint.

  12. #162
    Check this prices on this one - I really want to add it back to my collection and a reasonable price should be $20 - $30...but for some reason everyone on Discogs thinks it's a $100+ disc!
    https://www.discogs.com/release/1015...And-The-Embryo

    And don't get me started on Marge Litch CD's

    I rarely pay attention to sales - some stuff have real low metrics because the only copies that ever sold were when it was in print...with no copies being listed after going out of print (I see this more often with small label Classical stuff).

    --Peter

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Proglodite View Post
    Check this prices on this one - I really want to add it back to my collection and a reasonable price should be $20 - $30...but for some reason everyone on Discogs thinks it's a $100+ disc!
    https://www.discogs.com/release/1015...And-The-Embryo

    And don't get me started on Marge Litch CD's

    I rarely pay attention to sales - some stuff have real low metrics because the only copies that ever sold were when it was in print...with no copies being listed after going out of print (I see this more often with small label Classical stuff).

    --Peter
    Why do you presume that this is a $20-$30 CD? It's rare - it appears to have had a single production run. It sold in VG+ condition for $280 a few years ago. There have only been a few sales since then. The last two were $60 and $80. One of the US sellers has it for $150 with a "make offer" option - he might take $100 given how infrequently it sells.

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Why do you presume that this is a $20-$30 CD? It's rare - it appears to have had a single production run. It sold in VG+ condition for $280 a few years ago. There have only been a few sales since then. The last two were $60 and $80. One of the US sellers has it for $150 with a "make offer" option - he might take $100 given how infrequently it sells.
    It's an obscure 3rd tier neo-prog band. Now I happen to like neo-prog. I never hear any one discussing this album, so it doesn't seem to have any cult status attached to it. Some of those high prices may have been fake sales. Kevin Gilbert's deluxe Shrew doesn't even sell for that much. I'll stand by my evaluation until someone can convince me otherwise.

    --Peter

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Proglodite View Post
    It's an obscure 3rd tier neo-prog band. Now I happen to like neo-prog. I never hear any one discussing this album, so it doesn't seem to have any cult status attached to it. Some of those high prices may have been fake sales. Kevin Gilbert's deluxe Shrew doesn't even sell for that much. I'll stand by my evaluation until someone can convince me otherwise.

    --Peter
    Only one sale was particularly high. Even if it was a fake, that was 4 years ago. The last two - $60 and $80 - hardly seem high at all, by the standards of what it is: long-gone, one-run album from Brazil, in a genre for which rarities typically fetch those prices or higher. Discogs is available to the entire world. $100 would be neither unreasonable or unusual, by my experiences. Anyway, there are 7 sellers right now. If all recent sales were fakes and the thing is actually only "worth" $20, wouldn't *one* of them price it for $50 or $60 and make off like a bandit?

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Only one sale was particularly high. Even if it was a fake, that was 4 years ago. The last two - $60 and $80 - hardly seem high at all, by the standards of what it is: long-gone, one-run album from Brazil, in a genre for which rarities typically fetch those prices or higher. Discogs is available to the entire world. $100 would be neither unreasonable or unusual, by my experiences. Anyway, there are 7 sellers right now. If all recent sales were fakes and the thing is actually only "worth" $20, wouldn't *one* of them price it for $50 or $60 and make off like a bandit?
    I suggested that to the UK seller (lowering price into the $60 or $70 range) if he felt I was really lowballing him. He didn't budge on the price (or even respond to me; seemed to be a dealer and not a prog fan). I'm not sure if he's the one who still has a copy listed, but I have tracked it for at least a year and never seen anyone offering it below $100...and only a couple of guys in Brazil even have offers activated. It's a weird one! Again, if people were talking about it, I could understand it. And there are a lot more sellers now than ever before - I know last fall there were only the UK guy and maybe 2 in Brazil. And if it was such a bona-fide collectible, why doesn't it show up on Ebay? --Peter

  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Proglodite View Post
    I suggested that to the UK seller (lowering price into the $60 or $70 range) if he felt I was really lowballing him. He didn't budge on the price (or even respond to me; seemed to be a dealer and not a prog fan). I'm not sure if he's the one who still has a copy listed, but I have tracked it for at least a year and never seen anyone offering it below $100...and only a couple of guys in Brazil even have offers activated. It's a weird one! Again, if people were talking about it, I could understand it. And there are a lot more sellers now than ever before - I know last fall there were only the UK guy and maybe 2 in Brazil. And if it was such a bona-fide collectible, why doesn't it show up on Ebay? --Peter
    Well, if for some reason I ever come across it more cheap, I'll let you know.

  18. #168
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proglodite View Post
    Check this prices on this one - I really want to add it back to my collection and a reasonable price should be $20 - $30...but for some reason everyone on Discogs thinks it's a $100+ disc!
    Just because you want to pay $20, and despite all your reasons otherwise, it simply doesn't mean that what you want to pay is a 'reasonable price'.

    It becomes a reasonable price only when someone wants to sell it to you for that.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #169
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Just because you want to pay $20, and despite all your reasons otherwise, it simply doesn't mean that what you want to pay is a 'reasonable price'.

    It becomes a reasonable price only when someone wants to sell it to you for that.
    I would take it a step farther...It's a "reasonable price," think "actual market value" when a track record has been established by multiple sales in the same price range.

  20. #170
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I would take it a step farther...It's a "reasonable price," think "actual market value" when a track record has been established by multiple sales in the same price range.
    and with the realization that that 'actual market value' can suddenly fluctuate for a variety of reasons (artist dies, artist kills their spouse, discussion about record online suddenly ignites a flurry of interest, artist suddenly finds 100 copies of something that was otherwise 'completely sold out decades ago', etc etc etc) and what was the 'actual market value' one month ago doesn't mean it's the actual market value.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  21. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    and with the realization that that 'actual market value' can suddenly fluctuate for a variety of reasons (artist dies, artist kills their spouse, discussion about record online suddenly ignites a flurry of interest, artist suddenly finds 100 copies of something that was otherwise 'completely sold out decades ago', etc etc etc) and what was the 'actual market value' one month ago doesn't mean it's the actual market value.
    All of this is completely reasonable...but does not apply to this particular CD. And that's why I am mystified. I can name a dozen or more equally obscure, equally rare CD's that command no where near this one (Pre, the '70s Yes clone put out by ZNR, first pressing of Strangers on a Train - not only the first SI release, but actually more of a demo form of the album that has never been re-issued; Ie Rai Shan, Morte Macabre, Vulgar Unicorn's Under the Umbrella, Il Trono Dei Ricordi...heck - all of the Landberk CD's...). Maybe it's just rabid Brazilian fans that keep buying them up and because it was a bigger release down there than the rest of us realized...and maybe all the discussions about it are held on South American prog forums...?

    --Peter

  22. #172
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Maybe you didn't see the news item in Portuguese where, on one very dark night, the members of the band killed all their significant others as well as each other!!

    It was quite the scandal and news item!
    I know it made ME want to listen to their neo-prog music! Seriously, though - lay off Peter! He's venting.

  23. #173
    Discogs has f...d up the prices for vinyl in paralell with the hype for chasing rarities. Until the recent EU tax change I bought a lot of records in Japan, not rarities but mainly City Pop, good Funk that was a part from Akiko Yano rather unknown and as these records were released on major Labels in big numbers in the 70s you could find them for next to nothing in near mit shape especially when ordering sevral for the same shipping rate. And Then 5 or 6 years ago there was suddenly a big hype and the prices got up very quickly. One of the Japanese sellers send me back then an interesting article that he wrote about the rise of prices on Japanese artists on Discogs.

  24. #174
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    The handling/postage price often exceedes the price of the item. Ridiculous!
    I can buy new CD's cheaper - so thats what I do, if available.

  25. #175
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    I've probably bought 20 items off Discogs. Rarely have I found a "good" buy. They were just items I wanted so I was willing to pay the asking price.

    Yeah $7 for postage in country is a bit much.

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