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Thread: Nirvana

  1. #1
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Nirvana

    What is it I'm not getting about this group? Ive tried to listen to them, and I think they are horrible. With the exception of Dave Grohl on drums and some of Cobain's lyrics which may get an occasional eyebrow raise, I think the music is not performed very well (like guys who just learned how to play last month) -- Ive tried YouTubing videos and live performances and that just made my "WTF is this ?" reaction worse in, like, how did these guys even get a record deal? Some of the performances on some late night talk shows are a joke to me.....Im not a Foo Fighters fan either but I think that project is far superior........Considering just how huge Nirvana was , I feel like maybe Im missing something that you guys get and can explain it to me?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    What is it I'm not getting about this group? Ive tried to listen to them, and I think they are horrible. With the exception of Dave Grohl on drums and some of Cobain's lyrics which may get an occasional eyebrow raise, I think the music is not performed very well (like guys who just learned how to play last month) -- Ive tried YouTubing videos and live performances and that just made my "WTF is this ?" reaction worse in, like, how did these guys even get a record deal? Some of the performances on some late night talk shows are a joke to me.....Im not a Foo Fighters fan either but I think that project is far superior........Considering just how huge Nirvana was , I feel like maybe Im missing something that you guys get and can explain it to me?
    That's funny. Dave Grohl on drums has always been the reason I thought they sucked. When the media called Cobain "the next John Lennon", I was done. So done, in fact, that I dropped rock and got into jazz. How's that for an endorsement?

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    I have only their MTV Unplugged In New York LP; other stuff by Nirvana I don't like.

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    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicislife View Post
    That's funny. Dave Grohl on drums has always been the reason I thought they sucked. When the media called Cobain "the next John Lennon", I was done. So done, in fact, that I dropped rock and got into jazz. How's that for an endorsement?
    Dave Grohl is moderately all-around talented imo.....and Im only saying that because I have the Foo Fighters, who I previously said that Im not really int either, as a comparable.....the Foo Fighters are just "meh" to me.....but Nirvana makes the Sex Pistols sound like Yes

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    Member frinspar's Avatar
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    What kind of fool would wanna make a case for the defense when the judge has already handed down the verdict? You hate them. Keep hating them. You clearly don't want to be convinced otherwise, just want to trash them.

    I don't like them either, but I do comprehend and accept that they were a significant part of the change in music that reflected the shifting consciousness of a generation.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    What kind of fool would wanna make a case for the defense when the judge has already handed down the verdict? You hate them. Keep hating them. You clearly don't want to be convinced otherwise, just want to trash them.

    I don't like them either, but I do comprehend and accept that they were a significant part of the change in music that reflected the shifting consciousness of a generation.
    I don't know if you're directing that at me, but you're dreaming about "shifting consciousness". Does anyone who's alienated or disenfranchised really need music played by drugged out rock stars to validate them?

    Always assume that anyone stating an opinion in places like this puts an invisible "IMO" before or after their posts. As such, I'm entitled to mine, and I stated it. Why the belligerence? Am I supposed to apologize?

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    Member frinspar's Avatar
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    Grunge replaced hair metal/hard rock on the radio and MTV starting at the end of the 80s and through the 90s. It was statement music for people who wanted to feel important. I wasn't claiming it to be transcendent. It was just the style that took over. Music changes each decade and each generation. We all know this.

    It also wasn't directed at you, just the OP.
    He/she wanted to talk shit about Nirvana, not actually have an open discussion with people who do like what they created, and who might be willing to help him/her better understand their music. That's clear enough.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    Grunge replaced hair metal/hard rock on the radio and MTV starting at the end of the 80s and through the 90s. It was statement music for people who wanted to feel important. I wasn't claiming it to be transcendent. It was just the style that took over. Music changes each decade and each generation. We all know this.

    It also wasn't directed at you, just the OP.
    He/she wanted to talk shit about Nirvana, not actually have an open discussion with people who do like what they created, and who might be willing to help him/her better understand their music. That's clear enough.
    Feeling important happens from within. Cobain and co. where just playing what they knew best - following their muse, so to speak. It caught on - good for them. But let's not think that it created some sort of cultural revolution. There's been a ton of disenfranchised people all throughout history. Not all of them were music fans.

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    Member frinspar's Avatar
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    Except that the flannel revolution actually happened.

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    What is it I'm not getting about this group? Ive tried to listen to them, and I think they are horrible. With the exception of Dave Grohl on drums and some of Cobain's lyrics which may get an occasional eyebrow raise, I think the music is not performed very well (like guys who just learned how to play last month) -- Ive tried YouTubing videos and live performances and that just made my "WTF is this ?" reaction worse in, like, how did these guys even get a record deal? Some of the performances on some late night talk shows are a joke to me.....Im not a Foo Fighters fan either but I think that project is far superior........Considering just how huge Nirvana was , I feel like maybe Im missing something that you guys get and can explain it to me?
    I think you had to be there, just like you did with punk - and the band was at the right place at the right time.
    I "chanced" on it, because I hung around in a bar where all of the early grunge thing was played often, and it hit me.
    Basically, Nirvana had one huge album and the rest is mostly forgettable, but the myth created around them was manufactured by the press, and out of control by/from the three relatively fucked-up members.

    just think that IF Nevermind had not been so huge, would the world have heard of Pearl Jam and the rest of the "grunge" wave?

    Quote Originally Posted by musicislife View Post
    That's funny. Dave Grohl on drums has always been the reason I thought they sucked. When the media called Cobain "the next John Lennon", I was done. So done, in fact, that I dropped rock and got into jazz. How's that for an endorsement?
    Actually, Nevermind was one of those albums that did bring me back towards the rock realm (along with RHCP's SBSM and NY's Ragged Glory... and the Swedish trilogy)...
    Before that, only Kravitz Let love Rule had an interest for me, since I had plunged into jazz during most of the 80's.

    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    but Nirvana makes the Sex Pistols sound like Yes


    But personally, Nirvana's album is worth 1000 Bollocks

    But in terms of impact on rock history, they're more or less o,n par with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    Grunge replaced hair metal/hard rock on the radio and MTV starting at the end of the 80s and through the 90s. It was statement music for people who wanted to feel important. I wasn't claiming it to be transcendent. It was just the style that took over. Music changes each decade and each generation. We all know this.
    Well, got to stop with the mythical BS spread around by the press... there is a dude who paid with his life because of that shit, because he couldn't handle it.
    This was a normal trio and they did killer RnR between punk and metal

    Quote Originally Posted by musicislife View Post
    Feeling important happens from within. Cobain and co. where just playing what they knew best - following their muse, so to speak. It caught on - good for them. But let's not think that it created some sort of cultural revolution. There's been a ton of disenfranchised people all throughout history. Not all of them were music fans.
    Well, wouldn't the "emo thing" be attributed partly to Nirvana's success? Not that this was the band's goal to start with, by any means.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  11. #11
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I think you had to be there, just like you did with punk - and the band was at the right place at the right time.
    Lol I WAS there: I was in my 20s when they hit.......didnt get it then; still dont get it now------- Grunge itself I didnt care for but I 'got' (sort of) but there were far better bands that could actually play (like Soundgarden) than Nirvana


    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    What kind of fool would wanna make a case for the defense when the judge has already handed down the verdict? You hate them. Keep hating them. You clearly don't want to be convinced otherwise, just want to trash them.
    It wasnt a troll thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    I don't like them either, but I do comprehend and accept that they were a significant part of the change in music that reflected the shifting consciousness of a generation.
    and im trying to find out the why

    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    It also wasn't directed at you, just the OP.
    He/she wanted to talk shit about Nirvana, not actually have an open discussion with people who do like what they created, and who might be willing to help him/her better understand their music. That's clear enough.
    Way to not know who I am or anything about me and make assumptions --- nice job
    Last edited by klothos; 10-17-2016 at 07:33 AM.

  12. #12
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Grunge was the last shot out of the rock Roman candle; the one that doesn't reach as high as the others. Grunge musicians are my generation so I get where they were coming from musicially, if not always lyrically. Nirvana was not my favorite grunge band. I don't even own Nevermind. I do have a grunge playlist in iTunes that includes the likes of Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Screaming Trees, Pearl Jam etc.... and I like to hear a few tracks now and again, for nostalgic reasons.

    The genre is now being swept underneath the huge umbrella that is "classic rock". I'll hear "Jeremy" sandwiched in between "Whole Lotta Love" and "Limelight" on the few occasions I hear our local classic rock radio station. Grunge seems to fit in, imo... There's a whole generation of 30-somethings who associate more with AIC than Purple or Zeppelin anyway...
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

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  13. #13
    Grunge never existed as a real scene. It was just a construction of the music press aimed at sheeplike consumers. There was nothing stylistically common among bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Hole, Temple of the Dog, Alice in Chains, Green River, Mudhoney, Tad or Pearl Jam. Other than they had guitars. But guitars were at the fore in death/black metal, hardcore/crossover, neopsych and a lot of indie. I had even read back at the times articles that referred to Dinosaur Jr. or Husker Du as grunge!

    Same as the riot grrl bullshit with L7, Babes in Toyland and the likes...
    Last edited by spacefreak; 10-17-2016 at 07:56 AM.
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    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    Grunge musicians are my generation so I get where they were coming from musicially, if not always lyrically.
    Thats the thing -- they are mine too..... I was in my mid 20s when it all happened.... and this is what Im not getting: There is a huge difference in the performance and ability of Stone Temple Pilots and Soundgarden than Nirvana........

    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    Grunge never existed as a real scene. It was just a construction of the music press aimed at sheeplike consumers. There was nothing stylistically common among bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Hole, Temple of the Dog, Alice in Chains, Green River, Mudhoney, Tad or Pearl Jam. I had even read back at the times articles that referred to Dinosaur Jr. or Husker Du as grunge!

    Same as the riot grrl bullshit with L7, Babes in Toyland and the likes...
    now, ^this makes sense

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    now, ^this makes sense
    The wanted to sell the great rock'n'roll swindle once more. And they found the bands that had the bigger pop tunes and grouped them in a marketable bunch. They could never sell your Butthole Surfers, Pussy Galores or Big Blacks so massively.
    Last edited by spacefreak; 10-17-2016 at 08:01 AM.
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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    Grunge never existed as a real scene. It was just a construction of the music press aimed at sheeplike consumers. There was nothing stylistically common among bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Hole, Temple of the Dog, Alice in Chains, Green River, Mudhoney, Tad or Pearl Jam. Other than they had guitars. But guitars were at the fore in death/black metal, hardcore/crossover, neopsych and a lot of indie. I had even read back at the times articles that referred to Dinosaur Jr. or Husker Du as grunge!

    Same as the riot grrl bullshit with L7, Babes in Toyland and the likes...
    same thing could be said of Canterbury, right?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    same thing could be said of Canterbury, right?
    Nope. They had a dinstinct sound. And quasi-no market. "Grunge" wasn't even close to that.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    same thing could be said of Canterbury, right?
    Or by calling progressive rock "prog"

    You know jazz - "Call It Anything". And it remains what it is.

    Btw, I didn't ask what Nirvana did to you. I stated what it did to me. It was actually part of a whole thing that was happening in rock at the time. The other was when G 'n R hit big, and a band infinitely more talented (Living Colour) hit less big. That's when I knew that the American consumer was sheeple being led by the media. Maybe there's less overt racism in Canadia or Brussels, but it's still (and has always been) front and center here.

  19. #19
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicislife View Post
    Or by calling progressive rock "prog"

    You know jazz - "Call It Anything". And it remains what it is.

    Btw, I didn't ask what Nirvana did to you. I stated what it did to me. It was actually part of a whole thing that was happening in rock at the time. The other was when G 'n R hit big, and a band infinitely more talented (Living Colour) hit less big. That's when I knew that the American consumer was sheeple being led by the media. Maybe there's less overt racism in Canadia or Brussels, but it's still (and has always been) front and center here.
    inquiry: what exactly did it do to you? also, the strait of disparity between GnR and Living Color is a lot thinner than between Stone Temple Pilots and Nirvana, isnt it?--or is that just me?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    inquiry: what exactly did it do to you? also, the strait of disparity between GnR and Living Color is a lot thinner than between Stone Temple Pilots and Nirvana, isnt it?--or is that just me?
    Hardly. G 'n R couldn't wipe the sweat off LC's jocks, musician by musician.

    I stated what it did to me in my very first post:

    When the media called Cobain "the next John Lennon", I was done. So done, in fact, that I dropped rock and got into jazz. How's that for an endorsement?

  21. #21
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    I agree that "grunge" became a catch all term to market the music that seemed to be coming out at the same time from the same region. To me it was just rock of the 90s. I was listening to these "grunge" bands alongside the likes of I Mother Earth, The Tragically Hip, Faith No More, King's X, Monster Magnet.....
    Last edited by Yves; 10-17-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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  22. #22
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicislife View Post
    Hardly. G 'n R couldn't wipe the sweat off LC's jocks, musician by musician.
    ^ I agree ...but that wasnt the point -- GnR had some skills (when they were sober)....and they didnt always sound like a garage band (when they were sober - subjective). Player for player compared to Nirvana, theres a big difference between the skill levels of Slash or Izzy compared to Cobain, a big difference in skill of McCagen and Novoselic (krist wasnt bad isolated, and he got a decent tone of a Ripper, but he and Grohl didnt lock-in very well as a rhythm section) and a big difference of skill between Adler and Grohl.......that was the point
    Last edited by klothos; 10-17-2016 at 08:47 AM.

  23. #23
    I do still enjoy listening to Nevermind from time to time. I have the other studio albums but they are not on the same level. The Unplugged MTV set is great though, stripped down and intimate, the songs come across very well.

    Incidentally I played The Pistols album for the first time in ages the other day when in the gym, and it still sounds very much alive and full of attitude.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    ^ I agree ...but that wasnt the point -- GnR had some skills (when they were sober)....and they didnt always sound like a garage band (when they were sober - subjective). Player for player compared to Nirvana, theres a big difference between the skill levels of Slash or Izzy compared to Cobain, a big difference in skill of McCagen and Novoselic (krist wasnt bad isolated, and he got a decent tone of a Ripper, but he and Grohl didnt lock-in very well as a rhythm section) and a big difference of skill between Adler and Grohl.......that was the point
    Ok. My point ws that G 'n R hit big because the public were led to believe that they had that rock 'n roll attitude that had been missing in rock for the better part of a decade. I don't know about you, but growing up in NYC, I heard many garage bands that sounded just like them.

  25. #25
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    not sure anyone would encompass GnR in grunge. (or Living Colours, FTM)

    So, not sure why both are discussed, outside of the fact that they were contemporary to Nirvana.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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