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Thread: Apparently the troubles of the ZFT continue unabated. . .

  1. #26
    The only interesting stuff would be the music equipment, but I wonder if they wouldn't be cheaper if they weren't previously owned by Frank Zappa.

  2. #27
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
    Man, talk about GAUDY! I thought some of his album covers were just weird for the sakeof selling albums. This guy was nutso. Musical genius, but certified looney.
    As a fan of Frank's for going on half of my life now, I didn't find anything particularly shocking here. Am I missing something?

  3. #28
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Catch me up if you can? Did Frank have a lot of guitars and if so, what did happen to them? Because some of these guys (Rick Neilsen, Ronnie Wood, Jimmy Page) have hundreds.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  4. #29
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Catch me up if you can? Did Frank have a lot of guitars and if so, what did happen to them? Because some of these guys (Rick Neilsen, Ronnie Wood, Jimmy Page) have hundreds.
    He wasn't that kind of a guitar collector. He did amass a lot of guitars over his long career, but it was all about trying out new things. He experimented with a lot of oddball guitars, like the Fender 12-string and the Acoustic [brand] fretless. His stage guitars tended to be heavily modified, with custom built-in electronics and the latest in whammy-bar technology. I can't imagine him acquiring some vintage Gibson just because it was a collector's item. Even when he was given the burned-out Hendrix Strat, instead of keeping it as a "relic," he had it completely rebuilt into a usable stage instrument.
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  5. #30
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    As a fan of Frank's for going on half of my life now, I didn't find anything particularly shocking here. Am I missing something?
    Most of his stuff is decidedly tacky-wacky, but yeah, that's Frank.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  6. #31
    [QUOTE=Mister Triscuits;625616]. His stage guitars tended to be heavily modified, with custom built-in electronics and the latest in whammy-bar technology. QUOTE]

    Well, "the latest in whammy-bar technology" only came into play in the early 80's, when he started using the sunburst and blonde Strat copies with the Floyd Rose tremolos on them. I think before that, he didn't use the whammy bar much, because he felt the tuning issues were too much of a hassle (though most of the tuning issues can be dealt with if you know how to restring the guitar correctly and occasionally pull on the strings to bring that back up to pitch...well, almost up to pitch, but close enough for rock n roll, ya know).

    Some of his guitars had souped up electronics, particularly during the 80's. I know he eventually cut holes into the ES-5 Switchmaster he used on the first few Mothers albums, but judging from the pictures I've seen, I suspected that happened years later. The goldtop Les Paul he seems to have used in the late 60's had an added single coil pickup and Bigsby tremolo and the SG he used during the Roxy And Elsewhere/One Size Fits All era appears to be an SG Special that he fitted with SG Standard electronics and hardware (plus extra toggle switches, which I'm guessing were maybe coil splitters?). And the Hendrix Strat went through a couple different incarnations with the electronics.

    But coming back to the original point, yeah, Frank wasn't a "collector". When he was interviewed in Guitar Player in the early 80's, he said owned around 20 or so guitars, and that didn't think of it so much as a "collection" as an "accumulation".

    As far as what happened to the guitars, who knows? Dweezil said once that Frank kind of lost interest in playing guitar after the mid 80's. At one point he said he found the Hendrix Strat laying under a staircase in the house, with no strings on it. He said it looked like it had been raped and left to die. He said he told Frank he was gonna take that one and a couple others and have them set up to play (apparently hoping that would inspire Frank to play again) and Frank said "You can have them!". His last major interview that he did for Guitar Player/Keyboard in 91 or 92, I think, he said he kept a guitar by the Synclavier workstation, and he'd noodle around on it while he was waiting for stuff to load on the computer, but apart from that, he just was interested in playing anymore.

    Beyond that, I know that Dweezil had the Hendrix Strat for a long time. At first, he sent it back to Fender, and they put stock Strat style electronics (at least they looked stock) and a reverse headstock neck on it. But a few years ago, there was a video on Youtube where Dweezil was shown with the guitar, and he had it restored to it's 1977 era glory, again apparently with a new neck (with a big CBS style headstock) with a transducer under the fingerboard, just like Frank originally had it set up.

    But I thought I had heard that the ZFT had repossessed all Frank's guitars that Dweezil had in his possession, so who knows what they did with them, unless they sold them (or are planning to sell them).

    Hopefully, they'll end up in the hands of someone who actually plans on playing them, instead of just putting them in a glass case or whatever, ya know the Nigel Tufnel syndrome..."Don't touch it! Don't even point at it!".

  7. #32
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    But a few years ago, there was a video on Youtube where Dweezil was shown with the guitar, and he had it restored to it's 1977 era glory, again apparently with a new neck (with a big CBS style headstock) with a transducer under the fingerboard, just like Frank originally had it set up.


    When asked if any of Dweezil’s guitars would be part of the auction, Mr. Julien assured me they would not.
    Source.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-09-2016 at 02:02 PM.

  8. #33
    "I was a millionaire once, then my mom threw out my comic book collection"

    BTW, that article makes it sound like Dweezil has no way to protect the guitars that Gail finally did give him, but you can buy guitar cases anywhere that fit most any make and model. I mean, it's stupid that Gail stipulated he couldn't have the guitar cases to begin with, but it's a simple matter of going down to the local Guitar Center to fix the matter.

  9. #34
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Ahmet is really some special kind of a dick
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  10. #35
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    With sunburst pick guard and upside-down maple neck:

    With normal maple neck:
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-09-2016 at 02:32 PM.

  11. #36
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    With black pick guard and entirely-different pickups:


    This website is wrong. This is not the Astoria Strat, as the burn marks are entirely different:




    http://www.diomedia.com/stock-photo-...e17492161.html
    According to Dweezil's video Jimi gave Frank his burned strat at the Miami Pop Festival. However, Jimi only burned guitars twice onstage, first at the Astoria March 1967 and again at Monterey June 1967.
    http://www.feelnumb.com/2009/11/24/t...endrix-guitar/

    This is not the Astoria guitar.

    The Monterey guitar was not a sunburst. Jimi played a black Strat for the concert and burned a cheap red-and-white stenciled one:


    Therefore either the Strat auctioned as "the Astoria Strat" Sept. 2008 was a fake, or Frank's Strat was.

    On reflection, I'm voting for Frank's as the genuine article.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-09-2016 at 04:18 PM.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    $20 per slap. The line would go around the block.

    Count ME in.

    Gail & Ahmet have written the textbook on how to F*_k up a legacy. . .

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  13. #38
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    That seems like a depressing family to be a part of. Even when Frank was alive.
    Last edited by JKL2000; 10-09-2016 at 02:28 PM.

  14. #39
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    I played in a cover band in Seattle in the 90's, and after Frank passed the guitarist in my band - who was huge Zappa fan, bought a travel case with two Crown DC300 amplifiers in it that was from Franks last tour. So they have been selling things for the past - what, 18 years? We never used the amps the guy just wanted to own them, because he was a real fan. He went on for weeks about how Frank was so dissapointed with the direction the music business was headed. Frank was getting into buying and selling commodities, rather than trying to sell music. I'm sure Zappa fans know all about this, I just kind of lived through it all vicariously, as I was not a fan while Frank was alive. He intimidated me as a musician. I often thought his comments were directed at musicians like me, who were not site reading, 14/4 time signature players, who can do anything you put in front of them. Yes, he was an incredible talent, but he was also a bit of an imperialist, when it came to tolerance of "lesser" music or musicians, and that includes, pretty much almost everyone. I was clearly the weak link in the band.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    The Monterey guitar was not a sunburst. Jimi played a black Strat for the concert and burned a cheap red-and-white stenciled one:
    THere was no such thing as a "cheap Strat" in 1967. And there were no copies at the time, either. There was only one model Strat (not counting the various changes that were made to the model over the years up to that point) and that was it. The concept of budget versions of Fender's flagship models was a decade and a half away, and the Japanese companies (eg Ibanez, Aria Pro II, etc) who became associated with the "lawsuit" models in the 70's were at this stage still perfecting their craft on original designs that had more in common with Burns, Vox, and Danelectro than they did with Fender or Gibson. And Warmoth, Schecter, and Charvel didn't exist yet either.
    On reflection, I'm voting for Frank's as the genuine article.
    What makes you so sure of that? How do we know the roadie who gave Frank the guitar didn't lie to him?

    Oh, and it probably seems obvious now, but I remember back in the late 80's a couple times hearing the rumor that Frank had given the Hendrix Strat to Adrian Belew. Ade does have a Strat (or used to) that had been set on fire, but it wasn't Frank's. Ade's guitar is known to have been torched by none other than Seymour Duncan, and was his main axe in the late 70's and early 80's. It's the guitar he played when he was working with Talking Heads and also his main axe when he first started playing with King Crimson (you can see it in the Frejus footage).

  16. #41
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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  17. #42
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I probably shouldn't have said "a cheap Strat." I read somewhere that the black Strat he played for the majority of the concert was a favorite of his, and he couldn't stand the thought of burning it. Instead he pulled out this (brand new?) gaudy red & white stenciled number that he had no attachment to (I dunno, was it a gift?), played "Wild Thing" on it, then burned it.

    The point is, it wasn't a sunburst.

    There was only one burned sunburst Strat, and either the one auctioned in 2009 is a fake or Frank's is.

    The reason I'm tending to believe Frank's is the real article is the shaky unrealistic provenance of the 2009.

  18. #43
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    That's fantastic
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  19. #44
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    That's fantastic
    You know he woulda burned it.
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    There was only one burned sunburst Strat, and either the one auctioned in 2009 is a fake or Frank's is.

    The reason I'm tending to believe Frank's is the real article is the shaky unrealistic provenance of the 2009.
    But the only provenance we have on Frank's guitar is Frank's word. OK, now, I think Frank told the story in good faith and didn't intend to deceive anyone. But I've always been curious about the whole thing. I think he said once one of Jimi's roadies gave him the guitar. I wonder what the circumstances were. A poker game, perhaps?

    Of course, there's the possibility that both guitars are frauds, and the Astoria Strat remains MIA.

    Instead he pulled out this (brand new?) gaudy red & white stenciled number that he had no attachment to (I dunno, was it a gift?), played "Wild Thing" on it, then burned it.
    Couldn't have been brand new. The red and white Strat has a pre-CBS style headstock, which Fender had stopped using in 65. It was, at best, a used guitar that Jimi had recently acquired.

    The red and white finish isn't stock. That almost certainly had to have been done after it left the factory. I don't know what you mean by "stenciled". That guitar (as well as one of his Flying V's) had fairly elaborate artwork, which I always assumed Jimi did himself, though I think I read once that no one was sure who did the work.

    As far as using a "stunt guitar", I think Jimi did this whenever he felt like smashing a guitar (not sure often he did it, I know the Albert Hall footage ends with him smashing a guitar). There'd be one guitar that was the designated "smashing" instrument, and Jimi would swap over to that for the last song of the set. Reportedly, one of Eric Barrett's jobs as Jimi's...well, today we call them guitar techs, but back then they were just "roadies", anyway, part of Barrett's job was to rebuild the guitars after Jimi had smashed them onstage. I've heard Pete Townshend also did this and I know for sure Paul Stanley would do this also (with Stanley throwing the guitar into the audience after he was done rendering it unplayable).

    Ritchie Blackmore also had a stunt Strat when he was in Rainbow, if not Deep Purple (watch the Munich Rockpalast show, he uses one Strat for the entire set, except for the last song, which ends with him slamming the guitar, headstock first, into the stage, before swinging the body around by the guitar cord for a couple minutes).
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 10-10-2016 at 10:48 PM.

  21. #46
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Of course, there's the possibility that both guitars are frauds, and the Astoria Strat remains MIA.
    This is an interesting story, full of twists and turns, and a lot of misinformation has been published. Here's what a little more "internet research" (caveat emptor) has turned up.

    Frank thought his "Hendrix guitar" was burned at Miami Pop May 18, 1968, but Hendrix played a white strat at that concert and did not burn it.

    Gail Zappa herself is one source for this misinformation:
    FZ's "memory" is accurate. The guitar was burned onstage in an afternoon performance at the Miami Pop Festival. H gave it to FZ. FZ later had it rebuilt (when he got it it was not in pieces). If you track photos you can see the changes it went through. What DZ says is also true. Rex Bogue worked on the guitar and refused to finish and refused to return it. I had to drive out to his place to retrieve it - and not all the parts were returned. (Frightening experience!!!) What ultimately remained is what DZ found under the stairs.

    Now you know.

    gz
    Some people have reported the burned Strat was "the Monterey Strat" (June 18, 1967) but the pictures I posted previously prove that wasn't a sunburst. Throughout most of the concert Hendrix played his favorite black Strat:

    Hendrix then switched guitars for his final song, "Wild Thing." That particular Strat was a transition-era Fiesta red Strat that Hendrix personally spray-painted partially white and added flowers. After he lit it, he broke up and threw it into the audience. Only a single piece of this guitar has turned up, and it's on display at the Experience Music Project in Seattle. It shows no burn marks, as (the film shows) the guitar was broken up almost immediately after being set ablaze.


    That leaves, as the only other guitar Hendrix is known to have burned, the 1965 sunburst Strat, played (and burned) at Finsbury Park Astoria, March 31, 1967 (London). Hendrix burned his hand doing this stunt, and the guitar was put out with a fire extinguisher.

    There are actually TWO guitars in circulation each claiming to be the Astoria Strat.

    The first was sold by The Fame Bureau auction house on September 4, 2008 to Canadian Daniel Boucher for £280,000. It was supposedly retrieved by Hendrix's press officer Tony Garland after the show and lay undiscovered in his parent's garage until it was found by Garland's nephew in 2007.
    The Fame Bureau said the scorched guitar on sale Thursday was found last year at the home of a relative of Tony Garland, Hendrix's former press officer. It had been predicted to sell for up to $900,000.

    Fame Bureau managing director Ted Owen said Garland came across the guitar while clearing out a garage after his parents died. "He thought, 'That's Jimi Hendrix's guitar, I wonder if it's worth anything,'" Owen said. "He didn't realize the importance of it."
    This story sounds VERY suspicious to me -- "didn't realize the importance of it"??? Besides which, as several online commentators have pointed out, the deep dark heavy burn marks on this guitar indicate something more than lighter fluid was at work here. It looks like it was subjected to a blowtorch. Lighter fluid burns off leaving little damage underneath (you can burn it off your hand). Especially if it was put out with an extinguisher!

    The second, or "Zappa guitar" was purportedly given to Frank in the late 1960s by roadie Howard Parker while Parker stayed with the Zappas. The story of this guitar is told above, and the provenance is solid from 1968 or so to the present day.

    Of the two, Zappa's guitar story sounds and looks much more plausible.
    In May 2002, Dweezil finally put the guitar up for auction in the U.S, hoping it would fetch a cool million dollars, but it failed to sell. It was put up for auction again in September of the same year, this time at the Cooper Owen auction house in London. Dweezil lowered the asking price to £450,000 (765,000 Euros), but once again the guitar failed to sell. The highest offer was a telephone bid of £300,000 (510,000 Euros), which was refused by Dweezil.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-11-2016 at 02:19 PM.

  22. #47
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Huh, look at this. I believe I may have run across the origin of the faked Astoria Strat. Can one of you guitar experts check the details to confirm/deny?

    For instance it's listed as a 1967 instead of a 1965 -- what's the difference?

    The upper guitar does not appear to have a whammy bar. The Fender stencil on the headstock is darker, and the bridge might be black instead of silver. Is the headstock longer too?
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-11-2016 at 11:30 AM.

  23. #48
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Incidentally, Ted Owen, managing director of The Fame Bureau (est. 2006) who handled the 2008 sale, is the same Ted Owen who co-founded with Mick Fleetwood the Fleetwood Owen auction house (2001) which became Cooper Owen, which handled Dweezil's attempt to sell his Astoria Strat in 2002. I believe that's him pictured above holding the burned Strat.

    Therefore, Ted Owen has had BOTH Astoria Strats in his hands, six years apart. Somebody should interview him.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-11-2016 at 11:08 AM.

  24. #49
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I now hate the name Zappa. Anything FZ's parents and grandparents, and earlier relatives struggled for has become meaningless.

  25. #50
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Can one of you guitar experts check the details to confirm/deny?
    Nevermind. The dates are all wrong.

    Although -- to add to the confusion -- the guitar pictured here is not the same guitar pictured with Greg Dorsett above. It is in fact the same model (1965?) as the burned Strat.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 10-11-2016 at 11:34 AM.

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