Bruce Springsteen & Prog?

[NogbadTheBad]

I think there's some rugby dude from down under who has been fired for stating his opinion

Well he said all homosexuals were going to burn in hell, he was fined and told to not repeat it, he then went ahead and repeated it & repeated it again. He's his own worst enemy. He's arguing the case as a free speech issue but he's got a contract with Australian Rugby where he is representing the country internationally and the contract explicitly calls out social media behavior.

[Baribrotzer]

Well he said all homosexuals were going to burn in hell, he was fined and told to not repeat it, he then went ahead and repeated it & repeated it again. He's his own worst enemy. He's arguing the case as a free speech issue but he's got a contract with Australian Rugby where he is representing the country internationally and the contract explicitly calls out social media behavior.

Although he would probably tell you that this was not an opinion, it was proven fact and had to be stated and proclaimed.

[NogbadTheBad]

Although he would probably tell you that this was not an opinion, it was proven fact and had to be stated and proclaimed.

Which is fine and his right, but Rugby Australia don't have to employ him.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Which is fine and his right, but Rugby Australia don't have to employ him.

^^^^
this

[Trane]

We're fraying with the site policy boundary here, but:

I think there's some rugby dude from down under who has been fired for stating his opinion

celebs should keep their opinions to themselves really

Sorry, but one of the reasons why I happen to like Roger Waters or Ian Anderson is that they precisely share them with us.
Politics is often the centre of the subject of some French singers career like Leo Ferré, Jean Ferrat, Renaud and especially Bernard Lavilliers, etc... (Brassens & Brel sometimes touched politics as well). It's notable that in France, like in the UK, about 90% of political statements made in music or interviews are left-winged. I some rare cases, (like Michel Sardou or Paul Weller), they're axed towards the right-wing.


And I agree that football players kneeling down during national anthems is just as legit as the black-gloved fist raised in the Mexico Olympics back in 68, but maybe there are better places for that than in team-sports (athletics not being a team per se sport) to make such statements.

[Kcrimso]

We're fraying with the site policy boundary here, but:

Sorry, but one of the reasons why I happen to like Roger Waters or Ian Anderson is that they precisely share them with us.
Politics is often the centre of the subject of some French singers career like Leo Ferré, Jean Ferrat, Renaud and especially Bernard Lavilliers, etc... (Brassens & Brel sometimes touched politics as well). It's notable that in France, like in the UK, about 90% of political statements made in music or interviews are left-winged. I some rare cases, (like Michel Sardou or Paul Weller), they're axed towards the right-wing.
.

I agree. I find it very puzzling that artists should somehow be silenced when it comes about politics. Politics are important part of life and artist should be allowed to express themselves about every aspect of life that interest them. We as a audience of course have right to turn away if we so choose to.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

^^^ Why should being famous mean you keep your opinions to yourself? It's not like anyone else does.

[Baribrotzer]

^^^ Why should being famous mean you keep your opinions to yourself? It's not like anyone else does.

Because it gives you a platform to spout every half-baked idea that courses through your brain. People will notice because you're a celebrity, and since they enjoy your music and respect you for making it, they'll respect those half-baked ideas. Or maybe they aren't half-baked - but someone will surely think so, and believes that you're ignorant with regard to everything except music, and will think that you're stirring up unrest. I could stand on a street corner and shout exactly the same things that Bruuuuce is saying, and nobody would notice; but when Bruuuuce says them, they gain a large audience, because he has a large audience for his music. As a result, those things may gain political traction, yet Bruuuuce (presumably) doesn't know what he's talking about, doesn't know that those ideas are (presumably) wrong and destructive, and (presumably) may cause great trouble.

Jerry Garcia almost never said anything onstage except for the most bland and obvious remarks: "How ya doin', Cleveland?", "Here's an old one, 'China Cat Sunflower'", "Now, here's one of Bob's". It was because he knew very well his god-like stature in the Deadhead community, and he was scared of setting off someone who wasn't too well-balanced. Imagine if he'd said in 1984, "I'm going to vote for Walter Mondale, because four years of Ronald Reagan are quite enough," and some drug-fried wacko spinning around in the middle of the field had decided to solve that problem another way.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

So you're saying that freedom of speech doesn't apply to Bruce Springsteen (Jerry Garcia, whoever)?

Pah. Might as well say that politicians should keep their mouths shut about politics. They have the public's ear too.

[Baribrotzer]

So you're saying that freedom of speech doesn't apply to Bruce Springsteen (Jerry Garcia, whoever)?.

I don't believe that, personally.
But some people do, and I think that reason I gave is why.

Might as well say that politicians should keep their mouths shut about politics. They have the public's ear too.

But politics is their field, presumably, their area of expertise. And, presumably, they aren't ignorant about the consequences of what they say, or whether they're making promises they can't or shouldn't try to deliver on. Of course, this often isn't so, but that's the idea.

[ronmac]

Because it gives you a platform to spout every half-baked idea that courses through your brain. People will notice because you're a celebrity, and since they enjoy your music and respect you for making it, they'll respect those half-baked ideas. Or maybe they aren't half-baked - but someone will surely think so, and believes that you're ignorant with regard to everything except music, and will think that you're stirring up unrest. I could stand on a street corner and shout exactly the same things that Bruuuuce is saying, and nobody would notice; but when Bruuuuce says them, they gain a large audience, because he has a large audience for his music. As a result, those things may gain political traction, yet Bruuuuce (presumably) doesn't know what he's talking about, doesn't know that those ideas are (presumably) wrong and destructive, and (presumably) may cause great trouble.

Jerry Garcia almost never said anything onstage except for the most bland and obvious remarks: "How ya doin', Cleveland?", "Here's an old one, 'China Cat Sunflower'", "Now, here's one of Bob's". It was because he knew very well his god-like stature in the Deadhead community, and he was scared of setting off someone who wasn't too well-balanced. Imagine if he'd said in 1984, "I'm going to vote for Walter Mondale, because four years of Ronald Reagan are quite enough," and some drug-fried wacko spinning around in the middle of the field had decided to solve that problem another way.

You don't give the fans enough credit. It's not like they're a sea of brain-dead lemmings like we see at ... well, you know.

But politics is their field, presumably, their area of expertise. And, presumably, they aren't ignorant about the consequences of what they say, or whether they're making promises they can't or shouldn't try to deliver on. Of course, this often isn't so, but that's the idea.

Politics may be their field, but self-expression is everybody's.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

We're fraying with the site policy boundary here, but:



Sorry, but one of the reasons why I happen to like Roger Waters or Ian Anderson

but I said "celebs" not musicians. Music has always been a vehicle for opinion and that is perfectly fine... in the music. Now, if a musician wants to run for public office, that's their problem. Otherwise, keep it in the lyrics, not rants separated from music.

[ronmac]

but I said "celebs" not musicians. Music has always been a vehicle for opinion and that is perfectly fine... in the music. Now, if a musician wants to run for public office, that's their problem. Otherwise, keep it in the lyrics, not rants separated from music.

Who anointed you the speech police? You might not like the rules of free speech, but you certainly don't get to set them.

Are you so insecure that you needed to be shielded from the ideas and words of others?

I just don't get this mindset.

FFS, get over it.

[Flightwave]

This thread is turning quite toxic now. Stop attacking each other and enjoy the world of prog.

[ronmac]

This thread is turning quite toxic now. Stop attacking each other and enjoy the world of prog.

+1

[GuitarGeek]

HITLER!!!!


There, I did it! Now that Nazis have been brought into the argument, we can change the topic.

[doneg]

What was that?......did somebody say something about Bruuuuuce and Prog........???

[3LockBox]

I gotta say, I'd be pissed off if I plunked down a wad of cash for a concert and got a political rally in between songs. I had a Springsteen DVD of one of his NYC concerts and tended to go on and on. Of course I could fast forward to the next song.

If an artist wanted to host an event where he/she did nothing but talk about their political or social views, I might go if it were free, but I wouldn't pay for it. But using a concert to preach to a captive audience is rather indulgent, even if I agreed with the views. If I pay for music, I want music. I understand not everyone goes to concerts for the same reasons I do. Hell, many people's motivations for attending concerts elude me.

As far as celebrity politics go, it's a case by case basis, but the celebrities I look up to are few and far between. Celebrities tend to lead sheltered existences and sometimes rather fucked up social lives. Their worlds are completely different from mine. Why would I want to take advice from someone who "doesn't have all their shit in one bag"?

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

This thread is turning quite toxic now. Stop attacking each other and enjoy the world of prog.

indeed!

I actually prefer strong opinions in the lyrics of the music I listen to. But if I pay $75-$150 to go see an artist I want to hear their music (and weighty lyrics if that's part of their thing) I do NOT want to hear them spend 15-30 minutes ranting

[Trane]

HITLER!!!!


There, I did it! Now that Nazis have been brought into the argument, we can change the topic.

Well, you were a little quick.... we hadn't gotten to that point yet before you strode in.

^^Godwin's law

You mean this??

godwin point.jpg

[Jerjo]

For those wanting to hear something from the glory days, this was just remixed and made available for purchase. Even with the rough mix of this show, it's a classic performance - 28 song set from The River tour. It's New Years Eve and the walls are sweating.

http://live.brucespringsteen.net/liv...ondale-NY.html

[floyd umma gumma]

Are these live shows official releases from Springsteen (live.brucespringsteen.net)?
I saw Springsteen a number of times in the late 70's/early 80s. A great performer. I enjoyed his first 4 records.

I don't enjoy musicians bringing up political issues. I don't mind them having views or sharing them - but when I put on a record or go to a show, I'm looking to forget about the issues of the day and just enjoy. I'm a big Pink Floyd fan and there are certainly political points being made on their old records, but the lyrics aren't so straightforward as to distract me with their message if you know what I mean. But I didn't really love The Wall tour of a few years ago show so much - as I thought Waters was trying hard to make some statements there, and it distracted me from the music somewhat.

Maybe that's a reason why I like Yes music so much - I have no idea what the words mean. I just like the sound of the words and the music.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Maybe that's a reason why I like Yes music so much - I have no idea what the words mean.

heh... even Jon Anderson doesn't know what they mean!

[Jerjo]

Are these live shows official releases from Springsteen (live.brucespringsteen.net)?

Yes, this the site for all the legal live shows. There's a lot of shows from those early tours.

[moecurlythanu]

Maybe that's a reason why I like Yes music so much - I have no idea what the words mean.

That's a shame. The secrets of the Universe are being revealed in those lyrics.