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Thread: Bruce Springsteen & Prog?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Only if you disagree with them.
    Whatever political views a musician shills for, he's alienating half his audience. It's stupid and insulting and undermines what music is about. Real music is transcendent, not of this world and its petty dogmas.

    But on topic, there is nothing progressive about Springsteen's music. Mostly it's just schlocky melodrama, albeit powerful. Johnny Bye-Bye is a good song, though.

  2. #52
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Well I know Greetings is not prog at all (despite Spirits In The Night and Blinded BTL)
    I will have to relisten to his second album (the longer tracks mainly) someday, though
    I remember enough BTR to say that I liked Jungle, the title track and Freeze out, but still cannot think of it as even close to prog
    As for Darkness, I kind of started with that album (not impressed to say the least) but only +/- liked Badlands and Racing
    And found only one track worth wasting my time on River

    But I have never owned an album of his and never thought about even thinking "about maybe thinking" of starting/creating a compilation of his first four albums...

    Steel Mill, however, I will investigate more, though.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mnprogger View Post
    Jungleland has always been a favorite of mine and I consider it at least loosely progressive rock.

    Darkness on the Edge of Town had 2 other radio hits besides "Prove it all Night" in "Badlands" and "The Promised Land." Badlands especially receives/d a lot of airplay on Classic Rock stations.
    True. "Prove It" was the only one to reach top 40 at the time though.

  4. #54
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    Whatever political views a musician shills for, he's alienating half his audience. It's stupid and insulting and undermines what music is about. Real music is transcendent, not of this world and its petty dogmas.

    "What music is about?"

    You've never heard of protest music?

    What a silly statement.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    "What music is about?"

    You've never heard of protest music?

    What a silly statement.
    Not a silly statement at all. Protest music like Bob Dylan's was rarely overtly political. It was much more subtle than that.

    Musicians like Springsteen spouting off insulting political diatribes between songs is something else. It does cheapen the music. It's the ego hijacking the music from the artist.

  6. #56
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Well, that's, like, your opinion, man.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  7. #57
    Of course. Just a different point of view to consider or dismiss.

  8. #58
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    Whatever political views a musician shills for, he's alienating half his audience. It's stupid and insulting and undermines what music is about. Real music is transcendent, not of this world and its petty dogmas.
    I think it is very odd to say that art should not be allowed to address political issues.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  9. #59
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    And in the case of Bruuuuce, his politics are central to who he is as an artist. So many of his songs are about the guys he grew up with, in inland South Jersey and on the Shore - the factory workers, the veterans, the small businessmen just scraping by, the service-industry people, the petty criminals - and their lives of quiet desperation. As his recent book makes clear, he was never quite one of them, but he knew them, played music for them, spent time with them, and he took their concerns for his own and tried to give those concerns an eloquent voice.

    Furthermore, one thing he's seen, time and time again, is some very smart, very savvy, and very well-financed people using his friends' own culture against them, using those friends' patriotism and old-fashioned attitudes as levers to hijack their real interests. Is it any wonder he speaks out? Or any wonder he sometimes does so verbally, for those who sing along but never really thought about the words they're singing?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    Protest music like Bob Dylan's was rarely overtly political. It was much more subtle than that.
    Not always. Some of it was pretty much in-your-face. Look at "Masters of War". Or some of Woody Guthrie's songs - and Bruuuce is a quite a Woody fan.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    And in the case of Bruuuuce, his politics are central to who he is as an artist. So many of his songs are about the guys he grew up with, in inland South Jersey and on the Shore - the factory workers, the veterans, the small businessmen just scraping by, the service-industry people, the petty criminals - and their lives of quiet desperation. As his recent book makes clear, he was never quite one of them, but he knew them, played music for them, spent time with them, and he took their concerns for his own and tried to give those concerns an eloquent voice.

    .
    I would agree. The book is giving a lot of insight as to his thought process and why he has the views that he does. They are all components of where he came from, how he grew up, his family life and other factors. I am at the part in the book just before "Born In The USA" and he goes into a lot of details about meeting Ron Kovic (the guy the movie "Born On The Fourth Of July" was written about) and getting involved with Vietnam veterans. He also started researching Woody Guthrie and his history of social activism around the same time. Springsteen admits to doing anything possible to avoid the draft himself, but had several close friends (and band members) die in the conflict and I get the feeling he has some guilt feelings about it all. Anyway.....so far the book is very insightful as to why he thinks the way he does.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    It's the ego hijacking the music from the artist.
    One might argue that the art is the fruit of the artist's ego.

    Dismiss that if you want, but I'm putting it down as the most elegant thing I ever thunk up right now.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I think it is very odd to say that art should not be allowed to address political issues.
    It's not the art in this case, it's the ego behind the artist that's the problem. A song about a particular topic is different than an artist hectoring his audience about what corrupt power-hungry politicians to vote for. For example today BS is spouting off about how wonderful BLM is. Just shut up and let your music do the talking! That's my opinion, anyway.
    Last edited by The Crimson King; 10-05-2016 at 06:21 PM.

  13. #63
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]That's my opinion, anyway.[QUOTE]

    I wonder how you feel about artists whose politics agree with yours. Maybe you should start a thread on Ted Nugent or Hank Williams, Jr.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  14. #64
    [QUOTE=Jerjo;624302][QUOTE]That's my opinion, anyway.

    I wonder how you feel about artists whose politics agree with yours. Maybe you should start a thread on Ted Nugent or Hank Williams, Jr.
    No, I hate the mixing of art and politics, even if an artist agrees with my libertarian views. Reminds me of "Soviet realism" in the Soviet Union (where I lived and studied for a while), where all art and artists had to reflect "socialist values".

    Sing about big themes, the human condition, love and heartbreak, mythology, esoterica, or whatever. Expand my mind, just don't try to lecture me on behalf of some POS politician. Really I don't think what I'm saying is so controversial. My sentiment here is a pretty common one, I think.

  15. #65
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I like when artists create their art around things that they're passionate about. I haven't really had the issue where an artist I really admire sings about something that repulses me, so I can't speak to that, but I appreciate when you can tell an artist really believes in what they're creating.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #66
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Artists need to write about what moves them whatever the subject and if it finds an audience that's a good thing. It's hardly hurt Bruce's career. I'm personally not a fan but you can't argue his right to write about the subjects he has.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  17. #67
    Yo, Kingsom Crim -- Are you saying that by becoming an artist, one loses one's right to voice one's political opinions?

    If so, you are an utter tool.
    Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Artists need to write about what moves them whatever the subject and if it finds an audience that's a good thing. It's hardly hurt Bruce's career. I'm personally not a fan but you can't argue his right to write about the subjects he has.
    This is my take on it. An artists ego is precisely where their art comes from (where else would it come from, exactly? their sub conscious?). I don't really pay attention to the politics of an artist anyway, but I think they have as much right as anyone to air their views, either in their art or in their words. That was precisely the problem you point out in the Soviet Union.....artists could not present their own views but had to adhere to very specific ones sanctioned by the state. Artists are certainly entitled to be apolitical if that is their preference, but they certainly shouldn't be forced to do so or only considered acceptable if they do so.

    As to Springsteen, I've never really been a fan, though there are a few tunes I liked over the years. I have a lot of respect for the guy though, precisely because he writes and talks about things he is passionate about. Even if that includes politics.

  19. #69
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard the new Springsteen album.....Western Stars?.

    I heard almost all of it on YT. It's very hearland/C&W. It's alright. The orchestra kinda gives it a layer of cheese. The songs are good. There's a little steel guitar too.

  20. #70
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I have it - it's kind of a throwback to the stuff Jimmy Webb and Glen Campbell were doing in CA in the late 60s/early 70s. There's one or two duds in the middle but the title track, Tuscon Train, and the last four songs are as good as anything he's written in quite a while. I have to take a long drive tomorrow with my cousin; this will be the first thing we play.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  21. #71
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I wanted to get it with a Barnes & Noble gift card my kid gave me for Father's Day, but they only had it in vinyl. No CD, just vinyl. Are they kidding?

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    Whatever political views a musician shills for, he's alienating half his audience. It's stupid and insulting and undermines what music is about. Real music is transcendent, not of this world and its petty dogmas.

    But on topic, there is nothing progressive about Springsteen's music. Mostly it's just schlocky melodrama, albeit powerful. Johnny Bye-Bye is a good song, though.
    Someone asked Michael Jordan which candidate he was supporting.. his reply was something to the effect of "Both political parties by my shoes".. Re: Bruce the one that got me was he had something on Netflix last Dec (or at least that's when we watched it) and he plays a great show interspersed with clips from his growing up etc. then he steps to the microphone and says.. "I know you don't come to a show to hear an artists personal political agenda.. BUT.. then he went on a rant..".. Kinda lost me there Bruce...

  23. #73
    Member SunshipVoyager1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I wanted to get it with a Barnes & Noble gift card my kid gave me for Father's Day, but they only had it in vinyl. No CD, just vinyl. Are they kidding?
    Sadly, they are not kidding. If there are any stores left in 2020, a no CD/DVD format, all books and a tiny smattering of vinyl is what they will carry. It unfortunately reflects what sells and has been headed that way for a decade.

    They can still order digital, but at that point may as well use the gift card online honestly.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Someone asked Michael Jordan which candidate he was supporting.. his reply was something to the effect of "Both political parties by my shoes".. Re: Bruce the one that got me was he had something on Netflix last Dec (or at least that's when we watched it) and he plays a great show interspersed with clips from his growing up etc. then he steps to the microphone and says.. "I know you don't come to a show to hear an artists personal political agenda.. BUT.. then he went on a rant..".. Kinda lost me there Bruce...
    Eddie Vedder did this when I saw Pearl Jam years ago (2004 I think it was). Initially he got a few "boo's", but by the end he got applause from the whole stadium (maybe some of that was relief that he was done, I don't know). Personally, I say they have a captive audience, so they can do so if they wish. If you don't like it, don't go. I actually like to hear what artists have to say on such topics and I can respect those who don't want to hear it. In most cases, I think you know whether you will here something from a given artist or not. I'm not particularly fond of Neal Morse sermonizing between songs, but it's his right and his platform and I say more power to him. I feel the same about artists voicing their political, environmental, whatever views from the stage.

    I do, however, think they should at least try to keep it short, since obviously the main reason people are there is for the music.

  25. #75
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    I think there's some rugby dude from down under who has been fired for stating his opinion

    celebs should keep their opinions to themselves really

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