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Thread: Triumph 101

  1. #26
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Yeah I noticed that that song is on different versions of the second album(as well as the first). Still, the song isn't on Progressions of Power though.
    What you'll find often is the compilation of their first two albums (which are IMHO their essential, if only because their rawest and proggiest), which is unfortunately not even the best tracks retained for it

    It's a little messy, because these albums were released abroad with different artworks as well.

    here is the first album
    https://rateyourmusic.com/release/al...iumph/triumph/
    Here is their RnR Machine
    https://rateyourmusic.com/release/al..._roll_machine/



    and here is the track list of the compilation (I've even seen this released with the Canadian RnRMachine artwork)
    https://rateyourmusic.com/release/co...roll_machine/µ

    Anyway, you might want to check out the 9-mins three parts suite called The City on RnR Machine... It starts with an amazing bolero was march, then an astounding flamenco part and to finish with an awesome crescendoed finale (in some ways, it reminds me of Purple's April piece on their third album)

    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #27
    Seriously?

    No really, seriously?

    I came here to post something about Triumph, no shit, and here's a brand new thread. Shows how cool I am but yet how cool I am not as WTF?

    So I was just watching them live Halifax 1987 and are they a five piece band? Some extra guitar player and someone hiding behind the scenes playing keys? No wonder they broke up as that's just sad. The Thunder 7 tour was freaking incredible but it seems as if it wasn't ever recorded on video or at least I'm not seeing it on Youtube.

    They didn't need anyone else so who's idiotic idea was this? And why did they feel the need to wimp out, was that really Rik who wanted to be a pop guy? I just don't get the demise of this band but I haven't done any searching nor read this thread so looks as if I've got some reading to do.



    Oh, there's also Magic Power.



    "The world is full of compromise, the infinite red tape. But the music has the power it's your one chance for escape. Turn me on, and turn me up, it's your turn to dream but a little magic power makes it better than it seems".

    Gotta give it up for rocking this tune. Rik Emmet really is a killer guitarist.

    Last edited by TheLoony; 09-26-2016 at 06:52 AM.
    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Library Jon View Post
    Could someone rank the best three?
    Just A Game, Rock & Roll Machine and Allied Forces.
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Ok. I looked it up and that track is actually from their first album. No wonder the title didn't sound familiar.
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Correct. It's from their first album. Progressions of Power is their fourth.
    Oops, my mistake. It's been a long time. I think I was mixing things up. I saw them on that tour, though, and was thinking it was on that release, as well.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    every album does have a blatant subset of songs with excessive cheese factor...be forewarned
    True.
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  6. #31
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    I tried to get into some of the earlier Triumph after some musician friends of mine raved about 'em, but they didn't do much for me. Thunder Seven is the one that holds up for me.
    <sig out of order>

  7. #32
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    Isn't that Rick Santers on guitar and keys? If so, IIRC he sang Rik Emmett's parts on their last tour (with Phil .

    It bugs me when someone is soloing and the other guys in the band have to stand next to him to get their share of the spotlight. But maybe that's just me.

    Going back to the original question, I saw Rik in Atlanta in (I think) the late 90s. He was excellent. Got to meet him after the show. He signed things and posed for pictures. Nice guy.

    Kevin

    [QUOTE=TheLoony;619720]Seriously?

    No really, seriously?

    I came here to post something about Triumph, no shit, and here's a brand new thread. Shows how cool I am but yet how cool I am not as WTF?

    So I was just watching them live Halifax 1987 and are they a five piece band? Some extra guitar player and someone hiding behind the scenes playing keys? No wonder they broke up as that's just sad. The Thunder 7 tour was freaking incredible but it seems as if it wasn't ever recorded on video or at least I'm not seeing it on Youtube.

    They didn't need anyone else so who's idiotic idea was this? And why did they feel the need to wimp out, was that really Rik who wanted to be a pop guy? I just don't get the demise of this band but I haven't done any searching nor read this thread so looks as if I've got some reading to do.

  8. #33
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Library Jon View Post
    I am really only interested in a few of their albums to start with. Could someone rank the best three?
    Library Jon
    I'd start chronologically and stop whenever you've had enough of them


    =====================

    The first few are the rawest but the proggiest; IMHO

    They became more popular (in the US) with Just a Game , but PoP and AF really hit their stride, espzecially commercialy speaking... Personally after that they went AOR, IMHO and I drppoed out completely (I'd kind of done so after JaG)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  9. #34
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    My favorite has always been the live album "Stages". Great performance and most of their best songs.

  10. #35
    So, did they release anything from their brief reunion a few years ago?
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_c_music View Post
    Isn't that Rick Santers on guitar and keys? If so, IIRC he sang Rik Emmett's parts on their last tour (with Phil .
    Yep, that's Rick Santers. Same guy who led this band, with his drummer brother: https://www.discogs.com/artist/492822-Santers

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Oh really? So that's what, 25 years between gigs?! Doesn't sound too promising.
    Phil X had a band with wife-singer Ninette Terhart for about ten years, called Powder. Three albums of alt-rock, nothing impressive. 311 meets No Doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    That would be the original Canadian version of the album. The international version, as released Stateside, was the one that combined tracks from the first two albums. American record companies in particular were fond of doing this, most infamously with most of the British Invasion bands early records (particularly The Beatles and The Rolling Stones), but it also happened with Pink Floyd, AC/DC, The Church, Thompson Twins, and almost certainly many many others I can't think of at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I quoted from Discogs.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    P


    Yeah, that's what I quoted from Discogs.
    Well, but the Discogs quote you posted didn't really explain the situation very well, except to say there's two versions of the album.

  14. #39
    And yes, on the Sport Of Kings tour, they did use an auxiliary keyboardist/guitarist, who as has been said, was a fellow by the name of Rick Santers. I actually have one of the album by his band, called Guitar Alley, which Emmett produced. As I recall Rick Santers also co-wrote some of the songs on Sport Of Kings and Surveillance.

    But originally, the band was a trio, but they used a lot of overdubs in the studio. On earlier tours, bassist Mike Levine played synths onstage, and they would often times alter the arrangements to accommodate the trio lineup onstage. The US Festival video gives a good display of what they did with a few songs, like World Of Fantasy, for instance.

    They probably brought Rick Santers out with them, because they decided they wanted to play the songs the way they were on the records, ie not having the keyboards drop out when Mike switched to bass, or having the rhythm guitar (or as Lemmy once put it "the ass of the song") drop out whenever Rik played a guitar solo.

    The thing I didn't like about that Halifax concert was the way they did Magic Power. On Stages and the US Festival video, there's this slow coda that gives the song a more proper ending, which they apparently dropped from the arrangement by the time of the Sport Of Kings tour.

    Does anyone remember the MTV concert they did from the Allied Forces tour? I remember seeing it once, about 30 or more years ago. WOuld love to see it again.

    The reason the band broke up, well, I don't know why they broke up in the end, but I do kinda sorta know why Rik Emmett left the band. Basically, what it came down to was, the band managed themselves. Or more precisely, Gil Moore and Mike Levine managed the band, dealing with all the stuff a manager usually does themselves. Rik involved himself with things like album cover artwork and putting the band's live show (ie stage sets, lighting, etc), but it was Moore and Levine who dealt with the record companies, booking the tours, etc. And I think at some point, that drove a wedge between Rik and the other two. I kinda have the impression that money had something to do with it too, so perhaps Rik felt Gil and Mike were taking more than their share, viz-a-viz the management fee, or whatever. Who knows.

    The other thing I always suspected was that it also had to do with the songwriting credits, which I'm told is one of the big reasons why most bands break up. In this case, the band had decided in the early 80's to credit all the songs to all three of them, and apparently they split the publishing royalties on everything three ways too. And I suspect that, let's say if Rik was writing some of the songs on his own, with little or no input from the other two, he might resent having to share publishing monies on something like, let's say Magic Power, with a couple guys who had nothing to do with writing the songs.

    And judging from where he went on his solo albums, I get the impression Rik wanted to reach in different directions, musically, and maybe Gil and Mike were more inclined to just play mainstream hard rock music. Of course, when you think about where rock music was about to go in the early 90's, it's pretty obvious that Triumph were probably on the verge of being put out of work anyway.

    All I know is, I remember an interview Rik did around the time his first solo album came out, where he was asked about Triumph. He said something to the effect that the lawyers were probably going to make a lot of money, so I gather that partnership had an ugly ending. And his comments when I saw him live about 9 years ago, seemed to backup the point that it did get ugly and there was money issues involved in him quitting the band.

  15. #40
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I briefly bumped into Rik at The Ladder tour in Toronto. Very approachable, he said his favourite guitarist was Steve Howe.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, but the Discogs quote you posted didn't really explain the situation very well, except to say there's two versions of the album.
    Clicking the link takes you right to the album page with the tracklist unique to the version of RnRM you were talking about.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Rick Santers. I actually have one of the album by his band, called Guitar Alley, which Emmett produced.
    Check out Racing Time. Great album.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    They probably brought Rick Santers out with them, because they decided they wanted to play the songs the way they were on the records, ie not having the keyboards drop out when Mike switched to bass, or having the rhythm guitar (or as Lemmy once put it "the ass of the song") drop out whenever Rik played a guitar solo.
    They upped the use of synths on ASoK, and they didn't want to reply on sequencing the way Rush does.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Does anyone remember the MTV concert they did from the Allied Forces tour? I remember seeing it once, about 30 or more years ago. WOuld love to see it again.
    Yes. Great show. Check YouTube.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    The reason the band broke up
    — boiled down to money and egos.

  18. #43
    The reason the band broke up

    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    — boiled down to money and egos.
    Yeah, I guess that's the short answer, isn't it?

    BTW, I remember hearing a...maybe not funny story, but a curious one. Dean Zelinsky, the founder of Dean Guitars, was once asked if there were any guitars he wished he had kept. He named two. One was a custom Flying V that he built for Elliott Easton, who ended up smashing it onstage. The other was what he described as the one and only true Dean doubleneck, which he gave to Rik. He said after a couple months, he got a letter from Rik, who said it was a nice guitar but he'd never play it because he had just signed an endorsement deal with Yamaha and they were building a doubleneck for him (you can see him playing the Yamaha on that Halifax concert, during Magic Power). And I gather Dean never got the guitar back.

    I recall one interview with Rik where he said that he was offered jobs with Boston, and I think the other band he named was Styx. He said he turned about jobs down because he didn't want to get into a situation where he wasn't making some kind of contribution, in terms of songwriting and broadening the band's sound. Given the time frame that he mentioned, I guess with Boston he must have been talking about the early 90's era, when Sgt Scholz was working on Walk On or just afterwards, and I would the Styx tour he mentioned was around the time the rest of the band more or less booted DeYoung's ass out of the band.

  19. #44
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    The other band was Asia, not Styx. One of the guys called him and said they had a tour booked but needed a guitarist. He asked his manager to look into it and found they only had one confirmed date. Rik figured it wasn't worth it. I imagine he's done well for himself as a solo artist. Plus, I'm guessing he gets royalties again since they are back on speaking terms.



    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    The reason the band broke up



    Yeah, I guess that's the short answer, isn't it?

    BTW, I remember hearing a...maybe not funny story, but a curious one. Dean Zelinsky, the founder of Dean Guitars, was once asked if there were any guitars he wished he had kept. He named two. One was a custom Flying V that he built for Elliott Easton, who ended up smashing it onstage. The other was what he described as the one and only true Dean doubleneck, which he gave to Rik. He said after a couple months, he got a letter from Rik, who said it was a nice guitar but he'd never play it because he had just signed an endorsement deal with Yamaha and they were building a doubleneck for him (you can see him playing the Yamaha on that Halifax concert, during Magic Power). And I gather Dean never got the guitar back.

    I recall one interview with Rik where he said that he was offered jobs with Boston, and I think the other band he named was Styx. He said he turned about jobs down because he didn't want to get into a situation where he wasn't making some kind of contribution, in terms of songwriting and broadening the band's sound. Given the time frame that he mentioned, I guess with Boston he must have been talking about the early 90's era, when Sgt Scholz was working on Walk On or just afterwards, and I would the Styx tour he mentioned was around the time the rest of the band more or less booted DeYoung's ass out of the band.

  20. #45
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Phil X had a band with wife-singer Ninette Terhart for about ten years, called Powder. Three albums of alt-rock, nothing impressive. 311 meets No Doubt.
    Phil X also has his own band, The Drills. They are a fun trio. I loved Powder. Had them on my radio show back in 2003 where they performed acoustic songs for the first time since forming Powder. Powder's stage show was phenomenal. P!NK stole a lot of their stage theatrics from them.

    Phil also played with Tommy Lee in his band in the mid 00s.

    Phil's a great guy!

  21. #46
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Phil IS an excellent guitarist.

  22. #47
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    They didn't break up because Gil and Mike were taking more than their share of the money. "The Sport of Kings" and "Surveillance" both featured a lot of outside songwriters at the behest of the band's record company. The results on average were obviously not up to Triumph standards, but both albums still had strong moments. The inclusion of outside songwriters and the push by the record company to get radio hits (a la Journey et.al.) out of the band did not sit right with Rik. The band had always done things themselves via a shared vision and that was being lost as the two sides began to disagree on direction. Rik simply had enough and quit in late 1988 before they could even tour the US to support "Surveillance."

    Several years back, before the reconciliation, Rik Emmett finally wrote about the Triumph situation in an open letter on his website. Unfortunately, I don't believe it's available anymore. I'm very glad they buried the hatchet. I just wish Gil and Mike would agree to boost their chops and play some live shows. SwedenRock and Rocklahoma were not in the cards for me.

    Anyway, I've been a huge Triumph fan for a long time. I was devastated to hear they had broken up as a Surveillance tour would have been my first chance to see them live. (I had just come of parentally-agreed upon concert-going age right after they came through on the Sport of Kings tour.) I've seen Rik acoustically several times in the past and it is always a great time. Rik is a great storyteller - he's witty and personable - and his arrangements of the old classics are great. I've lost some interest in his eclectic solo career, but very much enjoyed his return to rock with the Airtime project. I'm very much looking forward to hearing the RES9 album that comes out in November. A lyric video for the song "Human Race" was released to YouTube today and features Alex Lifeson on 12-string guitar.

    Chad

  23. #48
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Phil X
    He's currently the guitar player for Bon Jovi now that Richie Sambora left.
    Chad

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_c_music View Post
    The other band was Asia, not Styx. One of the guys called him and said they had a tour booked but needed a guitarist. He asked his manager to look into it and found they only had one confirmed date. Rik figured it wasn't worth it. I imagine he's done well for himself as a solo artist. Plus, I'm guessing he gets royalties again since they are back on speaking terms.
    I stand corrected. I only remember that Boston was one of the bands he named. Like I said, the interview I read, he made it seem like he was being scouted merely as a "replacement guy" and not as someone who would contribute to songwriting, etc.

  25. #50
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    Just a Game! Lay it on the line is my favorite tune of theirs. They put on as good a show as Rush back in the day!

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