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Thread: Phil Collins - His Legacy and Contribution to Prog

  1. #51
    I have a lot of respect for Phil Collins. Like some people here I even like his use of drum machines and gated reverb, it was a clever way of morphing into something new in the 80s.
    He has had quite a strange career, and he sounds strange when he speaks about it these days. He sounds as if he doesn't understand what used to appeal to him in prog and fusion. He says most of the Genesis lyrics he sang were meaningless to him. The "simple, down to earth" side of PC that conquered the world has left the "sophisticated" side behind. But I don't feel the two sides are disconnected. Although I'm not familiar with all his solo material, I feel there is a special kind of sweetness, of sincerity that permeates his playing, singing and songwriting. Even though he has been known to be an over-the-top showman in the 80s, even though he seems to have become less and less adventurous with the years, there's always been a naive, often melancholic quality to his presence that has touched me. He may have portrayed himself as a simple guy, he may have been portrayed as a simplistic sentimental pop singer, there have always been subtle qualities in his work.

  2. #52
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    @yamishogun, wintertree and Scott: Thanks for the kind words, guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    [...]the superb 'Droned' which now strikes me as Collins' excursion into ECM-style fare...not least because ECM alumni Shankar is on it. [...]
    Good call on “Droned” – excellent little track. Had he not gone solo, this would have been ideal for a Brand X album. Speaking of which: This thread made me revisit Moroccan Roll last night. Apart from the underrated Product, it’s probably my favorite Brand X album and the two Collins compositions are a big reason why.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post

    I think 'Take Me Home' is Peter Gabriel's only appearance on a Phil Collins song?
    I didn't realize that Peter Gabriel sang on that until I heard the better remixed version. I thought his voice stood out on that version - or maybe it's just me.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Two Words:
    Nuclear Burn
    I agree
    Amazing drummer indeed
    I find that his work with Brand X and Eno has some extra edge over the stuff with Genesis
    Sky Saw and No One Receiving, Kurt's Rejoinder are amazing
    And Nuclear Burn is indeed amazing - His playing the Brand X debut has this intensity and energy level that I don't hear on Morrocan Roll or product
    Its a shame he never further developed that more experimental path
    oh and Peter Gabriel's Intruder ...

  5. #55
    I don't think anyone who is truly honest can deny that in his prime, Collins was a flipping beast behind a kit. Regardless of what he did in his solo career, none of which I liked or followed, his earlier work is downright astonishing. As mentioned, all the bands he showed up with. If he was on drums it was an auto buy for me. I think some of his work on the Lamb is a high watermark. And of course the Brand X albums...good god man.
    I can understand his looking back in disbelief at his work. I've looked back at illustrations I've done and thought "Jesus Christ, I'm not sure I could do that now!" That work isn't in his wheelhouse any more. He's moved on. I get it, but what he left behind is truly a remarkable imprint on the golden era of prog!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    I agree
    Amazing drummer indeed
    I find that his work with Brand X and Eno has some extra edge over the stuff with Genesis
    Sky Saw and No One Receiving, Kurt's Rejoinder are amazing
    And Nuclear Burn is indeed amazing - His playing the Brand X debut has this intensity and energy level that I don't hear on Morrocan Roll or product
    Its a shame he never further developed that more experimental path
    oh and Peter Gabriel's Intruder ...
    He became one of Eno's 'go-to' drummers, starting with Taking Tiger Mountain and continuing through to Music For Films. In fact, in several interviews, Phil Collins has credited Eno for giving him the confidence to go solo in the first place.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by firth5th View Post
    I know it's probably on YouTube, but is this representative of the Exposure album? I know it was kind of a companion to Peter Gabriel's 2nd. If it's mostly like this, I'll have to pick it up.

  8. #58
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    It's a mixed bag. A couple tunes on it are about this cool though.

  9. #59
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    I would say it's more song-based than this track, really. But it's got vocals by Peter Hammill and Peter Gabriel on it. The former contributes perhaps the single most deranged vocal of his career with 'Disengage'!

  10. #60
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    Thanks for the replies.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    It's a mixed bag. A couple tunes on it are about this cool though.
    There's a trio track with Levin and Narada Michael Walden that's as good as the track above. Personally, I could do without some of the screaming vocals on the album.

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    NOT prog, but I'm fond of the very Lennon-esque ballad 'We Said Hello Goodbye', which was an extra track on the CD version of No Jacket Required.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by firth5th View Post
    Holy f ing crap...
    Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.

  14. #64
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    What a great drummer.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by shomanca View Post
    Out of curiosity, when did John Wetton work with Phil?
    The December 1977 pre-Exposure sessions were not their first encounter. They first played together on Peter Banks' "Two Sides Of PB" album in 1973. Although it's a brief encounter, I seem to remember Wetton saying in an interview that it led to a friendship that was already well established by the time of the 1977 sessions. (I also seem to remember some story about them exchanging girlfriends at some point !)
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  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    NOT prog, but I'm fond of the very Lennon-esque ballad 'We Said Hello Goodbye', which was an extra track on the CD version of No Jacket Required.
    That's a gorgeous track.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigory View Post
    I really dig his gated sound and the use of drum machines. Stuff like "Home By The Sea," "Mama," and "In The Air Tonight"...that was Phil (and co.) Inventing the sound of the 80's.
    This may not get posted, but I disagree. I don't think Phil ruined prog, maybe he ruined pop or copied the pop style of the 80s. I'm not saying his output in the 80s was bad, it went from setting the pace of innovation, to fitting in with the average. I'll include the following from Wiki which speaks to noise gated drumming:

    Engineer Hugh Padgham famously applied gated reverb to Collins' drum timbre on Peter Gabriel's song "Intruder", Collins' first use of the technique. Examples from Collins' own music include "In the Air Tonight", "Against All Odds (Take a Look at Me Now)", "I Don't Care Anymore" and "I Wish It Would Rain Down", and the Genesis tracks "Mama" and "No Son of Mine". Lillywhite and Padgham's work on Peter Gabriel III was bookended with their work on XTC's Drums and Wires and The Black Sea. In this period they perfected their gated reverb technique on Terry Chambers drums, which can be heard most distinctively on XTC's album, The Black Sea (particularly songs Respectable Street, Generals and Majors and Love At First Sight). The British band Duran Duran also made repeated use of the recording technique, heard prominently on the drums on the 1984 hit single "The Wild Boys" as well as the 1985 James Bond theme song "A View To A Kill". Bruce Springsteen used the effect on his 1984 hit "Born in the U.S.A.", the drums being played by Max Weinberg. The song "Some Like It Hot" by The Power Station opens with a drum solo that features the effect prominently. The song "Running Up That Hill" produced and released by Kate Bush makes heavy usage of this method.

    There is just so much more music in the 80s that would not be classified as prog, that was innovative and far more entertaining to listen to. On regular drums, it wasn't just his pure technical capability, it was the artistic aspect. Not just the odd time signatures, but how it added to the music.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    This may not get posted, but I disagree. I don't think Phil ruined prog, maybe he ruined pop or copied the pop style of the 80s. I'm not saying his output in the 80s was bad, it went from setting the pace of innovation, to fitting in with the average. I'll include the following from Wiki which speaks to noise gated drumming:

    Engineer Hugh Padgham famously applied gated reverb to Collins' drum timbre on Peter Gabriel's song "Intruder", Collins' first use of the technique. Examples from Collins' own music include "In the Air Tonight", "Against All Odds (Take a Look at Me Now)", "I Don't Care Anymore" and "I Wish It Would Rain Down", and the Genesis tracks "Mama" and "No Son of Mine". Lillywhite and Padgham's work on Peter Gabriel III was bookended with their work on XTC's Drums and Wires and The Black Sea. In this period they perfected their gated reverb technique on Terry Chambers drums, which can be heard most distinctively on XTC's album, The Black Sea (particularly songs Respectable Street, Generals and Majors and Love At First Sight). The British band Duran Duran also made repeated use of the recording technique, heard prominently on the drums on the 1984 hit single "The Wild Boys" as well as the 1985 James Bond theme song "A View To A Kill". Bruce Springsteen used the effect on his 1984 hit "Born in the U.S.A.", the drums being played by Max Weinberg. The song "Some Like It Hot" by The Power Station opens with a drum solo that features the effect prominently. The song "Running Up That Hill" produced and released by Kate Bush makes heavy usage of this method.
    'Running up that Hill' is a Linn Drum, is it not? Did they still go to the bother of gating it?

  19. #69
    Another thing about Phil is his ability to work with people in many styles. I was listening to Pledge Pin by Robert Plant the other day and thinking how good Collin's drums are on that and he did some fine work with Eric Clapton as well. He also worked with Earth, Wind & Fire's Philip Bailey too. Amazing talent.

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  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoise View Post
    That's a gorgeous track.
    There are three fundamental problems that have yet to be solved now that Fermat's Last Theorem has been:

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    3. How did the same guy who wrote 'We Said Hello Goodbye' also write the Testify album?

  21. #71

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interstellar View Post
    I have a lot of respect for Phil Collins. Like some people here I even like his use of drum machines and gated reverb, it was a clever way of morphing into something new in the 80s.
    He has had quite a strange career, and he sounds strange when he speaks about it these days. He sounds as if he doesn't understand what used to appeal to him in prog and fusion. He says most of the Genesis lyrics he sang were meaningless to him. The "simple, down to earth" side of PC that conquered the world has left the "sophisticated" side behind. But I don't feel the two sides are disconnected. Although I'm not familiar with all his solo material, I feel there is a special kind of sweetness, of sincerity that permeates his playing, singing and songwriting. Even though he has been known to be an over-the-top showman in the 80s, even though he seems to have become less and less adventurous with the years, there's always been a naive, often melancholic quality to his presence that has touched me. He may have portrayed himself as a simple guy, he may have been portrayed as a simplistic sentimental pop singer, there have always been subtle qualities in his work.
    Big Phil fan, spent many an hour listening to music that he was involved with. Excepting that he became a huge solo star well into his career, I don't think that he is much different than many stars. He definitely is not the first one to not be a fan of their earlier work that got them the attention in the first place. He was a drummer first and foremost. He would not have been invited to play on everyone under the suns albums if all he did was play uncomplicated stuff like 'Since I lost you'. He wanted to bang the drums and be one of the boys, not the leader. In PG Genesis, that's what he did. He slowly came to the front of Genesis, probably not getting his share of writing in until Duke.

    You can usually tell when Phil wrote the lyrics and they are much simpler than especially Banks. It worked for Phil, I'm glad that he stayed in Genesis even after his star rose as a solo artist. I have most of his solo stuff and some of it is quite good, especially the first 2 albums. I do find it annoying when artists don't have anything good to say about the early stuff. I can see him saying the lyrics weren't his cup of tea but to say he did not like prog or fusion makes him a bit of a fraud. But if you listen and look at some of the concerts, he is enjoying himself. I guess the looking back part is tough. And nobody wants to say their best stuff might have been 20 or so years before. Most artist say the latest is the best. Its good for advertising and probably the best for them to believe it. He has been attacked like no other in the music business and I am sure that took a toll on him and made him want to disconnect even further from the days when he was a monster on the drums. Anyway, now that he has announced a comeback concerts, I am looking forward to see if he writes anything new. No, he is not on autobuy anymore, and I am sure there will not be a hint of any prog on it, but to barrow some of your words: if the simplistic sentimental pop singer shows up with those subtle qualities on this work, I'm sure many will find it enjoyable.

    Phil, deserved prog legend and balladeer who songs touched a very diverse audience.
    Last edited by Tangram; 10-18-2016 at 04:00 AM.

  23. #73
    His new collection The Singles is currently #4 on the midweek UK charts:
    http://www.officialcharts.com/charts...-chart-update/

  24. #74
    Without Phil Collins, Banks and Rutherford would have floundered long ago into 'Calling all stations' hell.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vonta Jitty View Post
    Without Phil Collins, Banks and Rutherford would have floundered long ago into 'Calling all stations' hell.
    Perhaps... I think the three of them really worked well off each other. Genesis became much more than the sum of its parts, IMO, when those three guys were firing on all cylinders together.

    But Calling All Stations still has moments of brilliance, even if overall it doesn't reach the heights of yesteryear.

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