The Damn I'm Old Thread - Putting Up With Being a Geezer

[rcarlberg]

"Somewhat improved" for $140,000/yr. in blueberry extract? People wonder why private healthcare is broken.

[yamishogun]

"Somewhat improved" for $140,000/yr. in blueberry extract? People wonder why private healthcare is broken.

Reread. NR/ptersostilbine (type of vitamin B3/blueberry compound) at a quadruple dose of what normal people usually take is $2,000 a year. The pharmaceutical that doesn't work as well costs $140,000 a year.

[Yodelgoat]

What about Krill oil? Don’t be fooled about quantity of EFAs, Krill is in lipid form which more efficiently is used in cells.

I buy Krill sometimes, its just too expensive to rely on exclusively. So I buy a little and supplement the Fish.... Hoping the absorbency might rub off a bit. Pseudo science. I just use what works. If over time I can trust less pills and use krill with same result, I will. But I cant trust the krill exclusively without some assurance it can do the job. So, its a little self experimenting. I do not want to lose what I have gained.

[Garyhead]

Under the "Feeling like a Geezer" part of this thread...I just got an e-mail from my friend (since we were 15) that he is in the hospital diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer and is waiting for the oncologist to offer up treatment options. I've gone through this with older relatives before but never with your best friend. Friends are the relatives You Choose! Don is only 62. I am at a loss for words. I replied to him to call me if he wants to talk....I imagine he is in a bit of shock right now so I didn't want to impose on him....he has a wife, stepchildren, brothers......and his 96yo mother around. We'll see.....he's kind of a Mans man and doesn't talk emotions much....I saw first hand how detrimental this is when my father was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago.......he kept it bottled up until surgery day.....post recovery, all his crusty old coot friends showed up and told him about their identical procedures! These old farts! (1950's era) Dad later shared with Ma that he wished he had known all his friends had gone through this before him.
I'm currently on the road so will go see him when I return. Ironically......he is my Main Contact in an emergency! I use a SPOT Satellite Tracker when I'm on solo Motorcycle trips an he was an invaluable asset to me when I crashed near the Arctic Circle in 2008. But that's another story.....

[Lou]

I hope they are able to help him beat this.

[progmatist]

But......that is a true statement. Nothing against supplements, but they do not have to go through the same rigorous approval process that actual pharmaceutical drugs go through. Supplements are also not regulated at anywhere near the same level that pharmaceutical drugs are. Any pharmaceutical drug that makes it into human beings (or animals for that matter) have to go through years of development a clinical trial before they are approved by the FDA of both the U.S. and other countries (all of whom have their own versions of the FDA). Supplements are not held to even close to the same standard.

I am not slamming supplements as they appear to work for a lot of people, but from a regulatory perspective supplements don't really have to prove anything other than not being harmful to consume.

I never could understand that. The FDA is the *FOOD* and Drug Administration. What is a "nutritional" supplement if not food? Somehow supplements fell into a netherworld where regulation doesn't exist.

[rcarlberg]

Two comments:
1) The FDA is a political body these days, beholden to Big Agra and politicians. It no longer serves its founding mission of ensuring the safety of food and drugs.

2) Supplements are not "food." If they had any nutritional value they would be food -- not supplements. It's kinda like "alternative medicine" -- if it's proven to work it's no longer "alternative."

[Duncan Glenday]

Gary, I hope your friend is lucky enough to beat this.

...he was an invaluable asset to me when I crashed near the Arctic Circle in 2008. But that's another story.....

I'm sure we're all interested to hear the story.

[Zeuhlmate]

Vitamins, minerals...?

[progmatist]

Two comments:
1) The FDA is a political body these days, beholden to Big Agra and politicians. It no longer serves its founding mission of ensuring the safety of food and drugs.

Therein lies a major problem.

2) Supplements are not "food." If they had any nutritional value they would be food -- not supplements. It's kinda like "alternative medicine" -- if it's proven to work it's no longer "alternative."

But they're classified as supplements, even by the supplement industry. It's like car makers insisting their SUVs are trucks and not cars, and should therefore be subject to lower pollution and fuel economy standards. The problem with that theory is motor divisions which traditionally only made cars, ie Cadillac, Chrysler, Buick, Lincoln, put their names on SUVs. Also, many SUVs like the Chevy Equinox/GMC Acadia are built on a car chassis.

[rcarlberg]

I believe crash standards are lower for trucks too.

Like cars, the various tiers of protection are important. In order to be OTC (over the counter), drugs have to be proven safe at almost every dosage, but still have some efficacy. For prescription drugs the pharmacist can limit the dosage to safe levels. With supplements, nobody cares or pays attention because placebos are generally considered safe at any dose.

[Firth]

The CBD situation highlights a major problem with the FDA. So the FDA approves a CBD medicine which costs over 3000 a year as a prescription primarily for childhood epilepsy. Colorado dispensaries have had Charlotte’s Web for that purpose for years and no way costs that much, and meets strict standards for toxic substance levels. The FDA is sick.

Our country made hemp illegal until recently. However they allowed it to be imported from China, 70% is. And it’s been found by analysts in CO. That most of Chinese hemp is contaminated with heavy metals. Hemp is used to produce CBD, but extract from CO removes the toxic crap.

[rcarlberg]

That right there is a result of conflict between state law -- in Colorado marijuana is legal -- and federal law -- where marijuana is still classified as a schedule-1 narcotic.

You want an example of how effed-up the MJ laws are? In Washington State MJ is legal. Just across the border, in Canada's British Columbia, it's also legal. But if you try to take any across the border you can go to jail and be PERMANENTLY barred from entering the US because the border is considered federal.

If you lived in Port Roberts, a Washington town accessible only by going through British Columbia, and you had a medical MJ prescription for glaucoma, you'd have no way to get it. Probably not even by boat.

[markwoll]

Two comments:
1) The FDA is a political body these days, beholden to Big Agra and politicians. It no longer serves its founding mission of ensuring the safety of food and drugs.

2) Supplements are not "food." If they had any nutritional value they would be food -- not supplements. It's kinda like "alternative medicine" -- if it's proven to work it's no longer "alternative."

Thank Orrin Hatch for "freeing the supplement industry"
https://www.medpagetoday.com/washing...on-watch/70285

[rcarlberg]

The website OpenSecrets.org reports that during the 1993-1994 election cycle, Hatch was the number one Senate recipient of contributions from members of the nutritional and dietary supplement industry, totalling $95,750. Former Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), DSHEA co-author, received $40,250.

That's damn cheap for a $35b/yr industry.

[moecurlythanu]

^ The whores in Washington are cheap.

[progmatist]

I believe crash standards are lower for trucks too.

Like cars, the various tiers of protection are important. In order to be OTC (over the counter), drugs have to be proven safe at almost every dosage, but still have some efficacy. For prescription drugs the pharmacist can limit the dosage to safe levels. With supplements, nobody cares or pays attention because placebos are generally considered safe at any dose.

And let's not forget at least one supplement company got caught selling generic plant material in place of the actual herb on the label.

[Firth]

That right there is a result of conflict between state law -- in Colorado marijuana is legal -- and federal law -- where marijuana is still classified as a schedule-1 narcotic.

You want an example of how effed-up the MJ laws are? In Washington State MJ is legal. Just across the border, in Canada's British Columbia, it's also legal. But if you try to take any across the border you can go to jail and be PERMANENTLY barred from entering the US because the border is considered federal.

If you lived in Port Roberts, a Washington town accessible only by going through British Columbia, and you had a medical MJ prescription for glaucoma, you'd have no way to get it. Probably not even by boat.

What is marijuana?

[SteveSly]

Two comments:
1) The FDA is a political body these days, beholden to Big Agra and politicians. It no longer serves its founding mission of ensuring the safety of food and drugs.
e."

I can’t speak about the FDA as a whole, but I work in Pharma manufacturing and we are audited by the FDA at least once a year (often more), and they are very tough on making sure that we are following proper procedures and the safe manufacture of our products. We make injectable drugs, so regulations are much stricter than pills. We are also audited by regulatory agencies of every country where we sell our products. For example, we had the Russian version of the FDA in about two weeks ago doing a week-long audit of our facility.

[SteveSly]

2) Supplements are not "food." If they had any nutritional value they would be food -- not supplements. It's kinda like "alternative medicine" -- if it's proven to work it's no longer "alternative."

Generally this is true, and as you mention a "drug" has to be proven to work.

[yamishogun]

With supplements, nobody cares or pays attention because placebos are generally considered safe at any dose.

NR (Niagen, a type of vitamin B3) has only been around for six years but has already been shown not to be a placebo in published studies. Vitamin D3 is also clearly not a placebo for those who are deficient and those with heart failure. Vitamin C is not a placebo either if one is deficient. Are you sure you know what a placebo is?

[rcarlberg]

NR (Niagen, a type of vitamin B3) has only been around for six years but has already been shown not to be a placebo in published studies. Vitamin D3 is also clearly not a placebo for those who are deficient and those with heart failure. Vitamin C is not a placebo either if one is deficient. Are you sure you know what a placebo is?

You are correct, Sir. I shouldn't have used the term "placebo." Vitamins and minerals -- which are sold often as "supplements" -- are not inert. (Most other supplements are, in fact, placebos.)

Vitamins and minerals also rarely deficient in any halfway-varied diet. Lucky for you, most of them will pass right through you into the toilet if not needed. A few -- C, zinc, selenium, niacin, calcium -- can become toxic in high doses, so it's best not to assume "if a little bit is good, a whole lot would be better."

[yamishogun]

Vitamins and minerals also rarely deficient in any halfway-varied diet. [/url]

This isn't true. About 40% of Americans are deficient in vitamin D3.

The Washington Post, April 2019 :

"Dan Newton, a molecular biologist and research scientist at the Medical University of South Carolina, says vitamin D is a regulator of inflammation and plays an important role in the immune system. “Numerous studies within the last 20 years have linked vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency to various types of cancer, Alzheimer’s disease, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, pregnancy complications and more,” he says.

"So why has vitamin D gotten a bad rap?"

"James C. Fleet, a professor in the nutrition science department at Purdue University, says: “We are starting to see some studies show that vitamin D doesn’t have a benefit, even for bone health. However, these studies are in people who have generally good vitamin D blood levels. It’s not surprising that giving them more of a nutrient they already have enough of doesn’t lead to better health outcomes.” This is true of the Lancet study. Only 6 percent of the 81 trials included in the analysis were in people with vitamin D deficiency."

* * * * *

Unlike vitamin D3, enough Vitamin C is easy to get through food however a 2004 study showed among Americans: "vitamin C deficiency and depletion were common (occurring among 5%–17% and 13%–23% of respondents, respectively). Smokers, those who did not use supplements, and non-Hispanic Black males had elevated risks of vitamin C deficiency, while Mexican Americans had lower risks."

NR (Niagen) is something new. It boosts NAD+ which declines in cells as you age so that a 50 year old has half the NAD+ level of when 20 years old. Early human trials show that NR may be more beneficial the older one is (past 40) and the more a person's metabolism deviates from normal. There are 30 NR and NR+pterostilbine trials under way so much more will be known in 2020 and 2021.

[Lou]

Vitamin C is water soluble.

[Firth]

This isn't true. About 40% of Americans are deficient in vitamin D3.

The Washington Post, April 2019 :

"Dan Newton, a molecular biologist and research scientist at the Medical University of South Carolina, says vitamin D is a regulator of inflammation and plays an important role in the immune system. “Numerous studies within the last 20 years have linked vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency to various types of cancer, Alzheimer’s disease, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, pregnancy complications and more,” he says.

"So why has vitamin D gotten a bad rap?"

"James C. Fleet, a professor in the nutrition science department at Purdue University, says: “We are starting to see some studies show that vitamin D doesn’t have a benefit, even for bone health. However, these studies are in people who have generally good vitamin D blood levels. It’s not surprising that giving them more of a nutrient they already have enough of doesn’t lead to better health outcomes.” This is true of the Lancet study. Only 6 percent of the 81 trials included in the analysis were in people with vitamin D deficiency."

* * * * *

For D3 there are deficiency and therapeutic values. No one has contradicted the large controlled studies using injection of 25OHD (the form of D created by the liver from D3) which clearly showed a reduction of colon cancer risk.