The Damn I'm Old Thread - Putting Up With Being a Geezer

[Vic2012]

I take melatonin every night, have done it for years. I have ADHD and I can be bone-tired but my brain does not shut down. Melatonin usually does the trick.

For years I've been taking one Excedrin PM tab every night. It works fine. I wake up refreshed in the morning. Yes, I know those PM type tabs aren't good for your liver. That's why I'm trying Melatonin. I find that 500mg tabs of Niacin help me sleep too. After the flush starts to dissipate I'm ready to hit the sack.

[adap2it]

I take a Probiotic a couple times a week. I don't need 50 billion cultures though, I'm fine with 15-20 bil.

gave up on Probiotics long ago, I prefer Prog...No, seriously, I think that they are just another supplemental con. My system is constantly changing, right now, white grapes are helping things move along.

[Firth]

Mmm……I think that is a bit of a generalization. Full disclosure that I work for the company that makes Lipitor (the largest selling statin in history), but I also have personal experience with it. I am a relatively skinny person who also works out regularly and am in good health but I also have hereditary high cholesterol. It started way back in my 20’s and by the time I got to my early 40’s my cholesterol rate was really skyrocketing out of control to dangerous levels. My doctor tried me on Lipitor and it literally knocked more than a hundred points off of my cholesterol level in a matter of weeks. Today I take a lower dose, but my cholesterol has remained in normal range ever since. It has been a bit of a miracle drug for me.

Well cholesterol level is more complicated and in your case, a genetic issue. However, have you ever asked yourself as to why you did have heart attacks even though you had high cholesterol. Totally non-scientific, but since the science is not being scientific than what difference does it make. It is known that some people have high cholesterol for a lifetime and it doesn't matter cause they don't get heart disease. My parents had acceptable cholesterol and yet both died from heart and arterial disease. My total cholesterol was 195, acceptable HDL to LDL ratio, heart rate of 46, blood pressure of 110/70, and yet my doctor said he could recommended Statins because of a metric that indicated 8% chance of stroke, and the threshold was 7.5%. I found the metric calculation on line, blood pressure wasn't included, but the factor that drove the score was 60 or over in age. That's bull shit, why give me a risk for diabetes for that. Starting in 2013, they decided to broaden the criteria for statin recommendations because statins weren't working except in 1% of the cases of people who had never had a heart attack. Where is the freaking science? The science of money[emoji848]

[Vic2012]

I think that they are just another supplemental con.

Yeah it probably is. The bottle says to take 4 a day. Screw that, I'm good with 2-3 a week, or less. It does work for me though. I don't depend on it, I eat plenty of fiber. poot!

[SteveSly]

Count yet another "Yay" for Lipitor (Atorvastatin).

There's a whole other discussion to be had about what it can do to immuno-suppression, but I too had scary cholesterol levels until I began taking Lipitor 4 years ago. So far no progression to pneumonia from a cold (the most common manifestation that your immune system isn't working as it should).

My late partner Kay's cause of death, otoh, is listed on the death cert. as "Complications from pneumonia". She had pneumonia the last 4 winters of her life, and ultimately all the years she was on Medrol (another corticosteroid) for her COPD & emphysema is what caused her weakening over the last years. Some of you on this forum saw that firsthand.

My point is that this is an issue that has multiple answers (as in a different answer for every f'ng patient). Time to put the sweeping generalization broom away.

Yup, you are correct it is different for every patient. We actually make Medrol (Solu-Medrol, Depo-Medrol and other variations) where I work. If it comes in an Act To Vial container it came from Kalamazoo. As with all medications Medrol has side effects. I am not a doctor, so do not know all of the implications. I will say that Medrol is carried in every ambulance / first responder unit in the country and is a lifesaving drug in many applications.

[SteveSly]

Besides atorvastatin and the blood pressure meds I take, I also take Niacin. I love that hot, flushed effect. Been taking it off and on for years.

Recently tried Melatonin. Anyone else taking it? Not sure what I think about it yet.

I have had insomnia problems for much of my life which is made worse by the weird hours that I work. I tried Melatonin and it did nothing for me. I felt no effect at all. On the other hand I have friends who swear by it, so obviously it does work for some people. I also tried over the counter sleep aids (they are all the same drug that is also found in antihistamines). They worked, but I always had a groggy hangover effect with them which I did not like. I finally got a prescription for Ambien which has worked really well for me for the most part. It allows me to fall asleep with no hangover effect (the half-life in the body is relatively short). I know a lot of people have had weird side effects with Ambien, but other than weird food cravings, I have not experience any of them.

[SteveSly]

See? I told you we would get (some) results within a few weeks. I just saw this press release from Elysium was posted yesterday. Unfortunately, it could be several months before they release details beyond the below:

Elysium Announces Topline Clinical Trial Results

Elysium also announced today that its first human clinical trial designed to evaluate the safety and efficacy of its first product, BASIS™, met its primary and secondary endpoints. The study, which was placebo-controlled, randomized, and double-blinded, evaluated the safety and efficacy of BASIS™ [nicotinamide riboside (NR) and pterostilbene] in 120 healthy participants ages 60-80 over an eight-week period. Participants received either the recommended dose (250 mg NR and 50 mg pterostilbene), double the recommended dose or a placebo daily for the eight-week trial.

The study found that participants experienced no serious adverse events and confirmed that BASIS™ is safe for daily use as determined by standard safety measures. The study also showed that in participants taking the recommended dose of BASIS, ™ NAD+ levels increased from baseline in whole blood by an average of 40% at four weeks and maintained that increase for the duration of the trial. Participants taking double the recommended daily dose saw their NAD+ levels increase approximately 90% at four weeks, and a significantly higher level of NAD+ (compared to the recommended dose of BASIS™) was maintained for the duration of the trial. This first-in-humans study demonstrates clearly that BASIS™ can increase NAD+ levels in the blood safely and sustainably. Confirming that BASIS™ is an effective NAD+ precursor in humans is a vital first step to elucidating how BASIS™ supports human health.

“As we age, NAD+ levels in our cells decline. The trial results, which are the first of their kind, indicate that BASIS™ increases NAD+ levels in a sustained way. And since NAD+ is involved in hundreds of critical cellular processes, it is a vitally important component to optimizing our cellular health as we get older,” said Dr. Lenny Guarente, chief scientific officer and co-founder of Elysium who also serves as the director of the Glenn Laboratory for the Science of Aging at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “We plan to submit the full results of the trial to a peer-reviewed scientific journal.”

https://www.elysiumhealth.com/clinic...-press-release

That press release is a bit vague on specifics, but maybe there is something there. I will be interested to see what happens if they do submit the data to a scientific journal.

[Vic2012]

I have had insomnia problems for much of my life which is made worse by the weird hours that I work. I tried Melatonin and it did nothing for me. I felt no effect at all. On the other hand I have friends who swear by it, so obviously it does work for some people. I also tried over the counter sleep aids (they are all the same drug that is also found in antihistamines). They worked, but I always had a groggy hangover effect with them which I did not like. I finally got a prescription for Ambien which has worked really well for me for the most part. It allows me to fall asleep with no hangover effect (the half-life in the body is relatively short). I know a lot of people have had weird side effects with Ambien, but other than weird food cravings, I have not experience any of them.

Like I said earlier, I've been using these "PM" type tablets for many years. The best brand was Excedrin PM, which I can't find anymore, anywhere (supermarkets, pharmacies, etc.). They've probably been discontinued because people were abusing them. I take one and I get a restful sleep without any hangover effects. But they contain Acetaminophen which can "damage" the liver, as I've heard for years. When I mentioned I took this sleep aid to my primary care physician he said I should stop that and take Melatonin. I'll continue to use Melatonin and see if it really works for me. I'm still not sure. The first time I tried it I'd been drinking beer earlier in the evening and puffed a little , then I took a 10mg tab, so not sure if that was advisable or not, but the next morning I was groggy for hours.

[SteveSly]

Well cholesterol level is more complicated and in your case, a genetic issue. However, have you ever asked yourself as to why you did have heart attacks even though you had high cholesterol. Totally non-scientific, but since the science is not being scientific than what difference does it make. It is known that some people have high cholesterol for a lifetime and it doesn't matter cause they don't get heart disease. My parents had acceptable cholesterol and yet both died from heart and arterial disease. My total cholesterol was 195, acceptable HDL to LDL ratio, heart rate of 46, blood pressure of 110/70, and yet my doctor said he could recommended Statins because of a metric that indicated 8% chance of stroke, and the threshold was 7.5%. I found the metric calculation on line, blood pressure wasn't included, but the factor that drove the score was 60 or over in age. That's bull shit, why give me a risk for diabetes for that. Starting in 2013, they decided to broaden the criteria for statin recommendations because statins weren't working except in 1% of the cases of people who had never had a heart attack. Where is the freaking science? The science of money[emoji848]

Again, I will respectfully disagree with you. Yes, there are risk factors with Statins as with almost any drug. They have been shown to possibly increase the chances of strokes and other side issues. Like any drug there is a risk / reward factor. Do your chances of having trouble with the side effects outweigh the main use of the drug? Only individual patients can make that determination, and I think with all the information online these days it is almost the patient’s obligation to inform themselves on the risks. Regarding the science behind Statins, I stand by my original statement. Any FDA approved “drug” (and I am not talking supplements here), have to go through rigorous phase 1, 2, and 3 testing which takes years of trials to prove effectiveness first in lower level animals, then higher level animals, and finally in humans. This is true of every drug (again not supplements) developed in the last century. The reason pharma is trying to broaden the reach of Statins is because there is preliminary evidence that the drugs may work on other conditions in addition to just cholesterol. The jury is still out on that. Just my opinion of course. For me Statins have worked and at least at this point in my life I have not experienced any side effects.

[SteveSly]

Like I said earlier, I've been using these "PM" type tablets for many years. The best brand was Excedrin PM, which I can't find anymore, anywhere (supermarkets, pharmacies, etc.). They've probably been discontinued because people were abusing them. I take one and I get a restful sleep without any hangover effects. But they contain Acetaminophen which can "damage" the liver, as I've heard for years. When I mentioned I took this sleep aid to my primary care physician he said I should stop that and take Melatonin. I'll continue to use Melatonin and see if it really works for me. I'm still not sure. The first time I tried it I'd been drinking beer earlier in the evening and puffed a little , then I took a 10mg tab, so not sure if that was advisable or not, but the next morning I was groggy for hours.

All over the counter sleeping aids contain one of two drugs. Either Diphenhydramine or Doxylamine Succinate. Both of them are antihistamines also found in drugs like Benadryl, Nyquil etc. Basically they are all the same thing regardless of brand. It is possible that the dosage may be different, but not sure on that. It is also true that many of these contain acetometiphin as well, although I don’t think all of them do. Like I mentioned, when I tried them I usually felt groggy the next day, but results will vary with different people.

[yamishogun]

That press release is a bit vague on specifics, but maybe there is something there. I will be interested to see what happens if they do submit the data to a scientific journal.

It was specific but only for the degree that NAD+ was raised. Chromadex with the U. of Iowa released a 12 person NR study on NAD+ levels that I put up a couple of pages back on this thread. That was out in mid 2015 and published in an online Nature journal a few weeks ago. It will be interesting if they release the results well before the journal publication.

I think the results will be positive based on anecdotes including from scientists who have reported effects, but I have no idea if weak or strong positive results along the different measurements.

My prediction:

positive effect on cholesterol levels - strong
positive effect on blood pressure - weak
positive effect on glucose - ?
positive effect on walking - weak, but a clear effect.

[Firth]

Again, I will respectfully disagree with you. Yes, there are risk factors with Statins as with almost any drug. They have been shown to possibly increase the chances of strokes and other side issues. Like any drug there is a risk / reward factor. Do your chances of having trouble with the side effects outweigh the main use of the drug? Only individual patients can make that determination, and I think with all the information online these days it is almost the patient’s obligation to inform themselves on the risks. Regarding the science behind Statins, I stand by my original statement. Any FDA approved “drug” (and I am not talking supplements here), have to go through rigorous phase 1, 2, and 3 testing which takes years of trials to prove effectiveness first in lower level animals, then higher level animals, and finally in humans. This is true of every drug (again not supplements) developed in the last century. The reason pharma is trying to broaden the reach of Statins is because there is preliminary evidence that the drugs may work on other conditions in addition to just cholesterol. The jury is still out on that. Just my opinion of course. For me Statins have worked and at least at this point in my life I have not experienced any side effects.

Again, it's not about whether statins lower cholesterol, its about whether it makes a difference, and I can guarantee that the FDA or anybody else has not proved the benefit.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...e-effects.aspx

[Firth]

LDL (bad) cholesterol levels fell 40 percent in the statin group and increased slightly in the non-statin group. Yet cardiovascular fitness increased 1.5 percent in the statin group vs. more than 10 percent in the non-statin group. “Muscle biopsies showed that mitochondrial enzyme levels (expected to rise in the cell during exercise) rose 13 percent in the non-statin group but fell 4.5 percent in the statin group despite the increase in exercise,” notes Dr. Sukol.

[yamishogun]

Again, it's not about whether statins lower cholesterol, its about whether it makes a difference, and I can guarantee that the FDA or anybody else has not proved the benefit.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...e-effects.aspx

Thanks. I forgot to say this a while back.

[SteveSly]

Again, it's not about whether statins lower cholesterol, its about whether it makes a difference, and I can guarantee that the FDA or anybody else has not proved the benefit.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...e-effects.aspx

Interesting article, although I will point out that this is from a “Natural Health” website which is going to be intrinsically biased against traditional pharmaceutical drugs. As I mentioned before I am married to a research biologist who has spent her entire life in drug research, and I also work in pharma so I tend to reside on the pharma / science side of the fence and am pretty skeptical about the Natural / Holistic approach to things, but hey, that is just me.

Anyway here is another article regarding statins which I think is a bit more balanced. They also raise some similar concerns to the other article. Obviously the jury is still out on just what the conclusions are:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...chrane-review/

[Jerjo]

A question for those of you who partake the noble herb, does it help one to fall asleep? I was talking to a high school classmate that is now a stock broker and she has hideous insomnia issues. She's tried all the over-the-counter treatments and would rather not use Ambien (doesn't place nice with her other meds). Now she thinks maybe smoking a joint before bedtime might mellow her out enough to crash.

[SteveSly]

A question for those of you who partake the noble herb, does it help one to fall asleep? I was talking to a high school classmate that is now a stock broker and she has hideous insomnia issues. She's tried all the over-the-counter treatments and would rather not use Ambien (doesn't place nice with her other meds). Now she thinks maybe smoking a joint before bedtime might mellow her out enough to crash.

I know people who swear by it.

[Yodelgoat]

Here is another Melatonin fan. I take 10mg now. I started out about 5 years ago with 3mg. I'll go as high as I need to go, but it does seem to lose its effect over time. For me, taking 20mg is almost like being drugged.

I also sometimes use kratom. Hopefully it wont be banned by the DEA. They tried, but failed. Its not a very well known product but it is quite useful for age related pains and geriatric funks.

[Paulie]

...kratom...

Hmmmm...never heard of it before your mention. I just finished some lengthy research and ended up buying 1oz from a, hopefully, reputable source. Looking forward to scoping it out. Thanks!

[Yodelgoat]

Kratom has just been through the DEA wringer. My wife uses it extensively to combat RA and Fibromyalgia. It has changed her life. Its effects are in small doses, like the best, strongest cup of coffee you ever had. It is a very effective anti-depressant. We buy it by the pound. If you take a full dose, it tends to cause sleepiness. If you take too much, you dont OD, you just throw it up. Kratom is by far the best herbal supplement I have ever used.

The DEA tried to ban it earlier this year - the rumor was because big pharma doesnt like something that effective out there for people to self- administer. No deaths, no addiction, and while not what you would call a significant "high" it does give you an overwhelming sense of "well being" It tickles the opioid receptors, but does not have the accompanying high, nor is it any more addictive than coffee. If you know anyone with Fibromyalgia, Kratom could be a life changer for them.

Take it for a week or so before you make up your mind. Oh and take a stool softener. It turns your gut into a brick factory.

I started a thread on the Kratom battle with the DEA here a while back, but the powers that be deemed it as inappropriate for this site. So I'm just mentioning I use it as a supplement. I am now off anti-depression meds, and I also lost 70 pounds, by using it. It pretty much kills your appetite. Its quite a remarkable product, but it wont get you high. Maybe just a little "wide".

Kratom helps Heroine addicts quit. they use Kratom, because they say it keeps the "bugs" away (that feeling that things are crawling all over you) I suppose thats the same thing with Fibro - makes the skin hurt. Kratom smooths all that out.

[Paulie]

I'm hoping it helps with the nerve pain in my left foot.

[Lopez]

I'm hoping it helps with the nerve pain in my left foot.

I hope you don't have gout, Paul.

[Jerjo]

Going through a major insomnia phase lately. I wake up sometime between 3:00 - 5:00 and it's always a couple hours before I can crash again. I work at home so I can set my own hours but damn, it's still a couple hours lost. I fear that this is something permanent. Fuck. I have to take melatonin to crash in the first place but it doesn't help me stay asleep. And I sure as hell am not going on that Ambien shit.

Staying in the "getting old" theme, this performance really touched me.

[Firth]

Going through a major insomnia phase lately. I wake up sometime between 3:00 - 5:00 and it's always a couple hours before I can crash again. I work at home so I can set my own hours but damn, it's still a couple hours lost. I fear that this is something permanent. Fuck. I have to take melatonin to crash in the first place but it doesn't help me stay asleep. And I sure as hell am not going on that Ambien shit.

Staying in the "getting old" theme, this performance really touched me.

I have a sleep management issue, but I refuse to cut down the caffeine. I do not have caffeine at night though. Another factor is exposure to computer screen light. I wish the device had an invert light function, remove blue light which stimulates the pineal gland. Sounds like something hanging between your legs, and it does affect genital development.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland

[Zeuhlmate]

You should stop using PC's at least 1-2 hours before you go to sleep. It does something to your brain. Watching TV can have the samme effect.
My son (16) has recognized this often and learned the lesson.