The Enid part company with Joe Payne

[the ferret]

Just spotted that The Enid & Joe Payne have gone their separate ways, the band wanting to do something "darker, heavier, more extreme & relevant to an impending tomorrow" whatever that means.

Shame really. The last few albums have been fine & while the theatrical direction wasn't for everyone it was certainly putting bums on seats at concerts. Having lost both RJG & Joe, it'll be interesting to see whether they go for a faceless Pink Floyd approach to gigging or employ a new flamboyant front man. Just hope they remain as unique as they've always been.

As an aside, Dave Storey wasn't mentioned in the missive I received. Anyone know whether he's still in the band?

[Enid]

I have no idea if Dave Storey is still in the band. Not sure about a faceless Pink Floyd role either? I am a die hard Enid fan of the Classic Hammersmith '79 line up. I dreamed of seeing the line up of Francis Lickerish, Stephen Stewart and Robert John Godfrey reform one day to do a tour....but that has since unravelled and further cemented itself as an iconic novelty never to return to life in the present.


I am surprised that Joe Payne has departed. He was the only vocalist that was fitting to the band aside from Peter Roberts who knew the core members during the days of Finchden Manor and had committed suicide on New Years Day in 1975. Supposedly R.J. G.had felt that the original vocalist could never be replaced and they remained instrumental for quite some time....however Joe Payne actually took on that role and managed to produce a perfect sound and approach to the beautiful complexity and melodic style of The Enid. As far as I'm concerned he was the only person that could accomplish that.


He was the only person to reveal that to us. It had been a long mind boggling mystery regarding how the Enid did in fact sound with the original vocalist and I believe Joe Payne solved that mystery for everyone just by being himself. Regarding the decision for R.J.G. to stay at home and not tour, I believe as an M.D. he will do his best to assist the younger members of The Enid to organize something grand and from his long term of teachings as a mentor they will hopefully continue to live life as The Enid we all know in a traditional sense and that the characteristic of what we love about the band will linger after he is dead.

[Orcopian]

I had thought the Enid were destined for big things with joe Payne fronting them, invitcta was excellent and the bridge shows were tremendous, but I was quite disappointed with dust, it was a step too far towards west end musicals for me, and maybe in retrospect for the rest of the band. When joe first joined I wasn't too keen but on invicta they got it spot on in my view. RJG has been quite active on social media recently, winding people up about 'prog' and apparently dissing the Enid's recent output. So it will be very interesting what will emerge. I've been a big fan since the 80's so will continue to follow the bands path. The recent instrumental gigs were very enjoyable but of course there was no new music.

[CapabilityBrown]

It had been a long mind boggling mystery regarding how the Enid did in fact sound with the original vocalist and I believe Joe Payne solved that mystery for everyone just by being himself.

I don't think Peter Roberts ever got as far as singing anything with The Enid. I recall Francis saying that he had been chosen by Robert and was due join but the rest of the band did even get to meet him before he died.



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[Enid]

I don't think Peter Roberts ever got as far as singing anything with The Enid. I recall Francis saying that he had been chosen by Robert and was due join but the rest of the band did even get to meet him before he died.



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If Francis said that then maybe R.J.G. personally felt that way about Roberts . This is stated by R.J.G. ...that Roberts could never have been replaced. It's included in some of the written history on Finchden Manor and The Enid's connection to the place.

[CapabilityBrown]

If Francis said that then maybe R.J.G. personally felt that way about Roberts . This is stated by R.J.G. ...that Roberts could never have been replaced. It's included in some of the written history on Finchden Manor and The Enid's connection to the place.

I think that when Robert talks about Peter Roberts being irreplacable it was meant to mean as a potential vocalist. The fullest account is written by Robert on the Enid's website where it is clear he was due to join the band but it never happened.


"I had talked him in to joining the band in late November 1974 and he had paid us all a brief visit just before Christmas. The plan was for him to finish the Christmas panto role he had in Brighton and join us all in Maidstone were we now all lived, in the New Year.

On New Year’s Day, Peter committed suicide.* To this day, I don’t really know why, but this disaster put everything on hold, as far as I was concerned. I couldn’t see us finding anyone else to replace him - nor could I see how we could do without him.

The rest of the band didn’t really take in the significance of Peter’s death – none of them knew him well – to them he was a future potential which wasn’t after all going to happen."

[Rarebird]

I had thought the Enid were destined for big things with joe Payne fronting them, invitcta was excellent and the bridge shows were tremendous, but I was quite disappointed with dust, it was a step too far towards west end musicals for me, and maybe in retrospect for the rest of the band. When joe first joined I wasn't too keen but on invicta they got it spot on in my view. RJG has been quite active on social media recently, winding people up about 'prog' and apparently dissing the Enid's recent output. So it will be very interesting what will emerge. I've been a big fan since the 80's so will continue to follow the bands path. The recent instrumental gigs were very enjoyable but of course there was no new music.

I thought RJG was still the main man behind the Enid, at least composing the music.

[Enid]

I think that when Robert talks about Peter Roberts being irreplacable it was meant to mean as a potential vocalist. The fullest account is written by Robert on the Enid's website where it is clear he was due to join the band but it never happened.


"I had talked him in to joining the band in late November 1974 and he had paid us all a brief visit just before Christmas. The plan was for him to finish the Christmas panto role he had in Brighton and join us all in Maidstone were we now all lived, in the New Year.

On New Year’s Day, Peter committed suicide.* To this day, I don’t really know why, but this disaster put everything on hold, as far as I was concerned. I couldn’t see us finding anyone else to replace him - nor could I see how we could do without him.

The rest of the band didn’t really take in the significance of Peter’s death – none of them knew him well – to them he was a future potential which wasn’t after all going to happen."

Thanks for that story! I have always been curious why Francis Lickerish and Stephen Stewart ended up in Finchden Manor . I knew about R.J.G. being there briefly and returning later ..but wondered if most of the boys had been sent there because of their parents dying which could have left them homeless...or were most of the boys orphans? There seems to be something totally unique about the way The Enid composed and played their instruments. I often attributed that to their social environment in the school. I didn't feel that they could be compared to other Progressive Rock musicians because to me...they sounded different from everybody else. Do you do not think it may have been their environment within that school that perhaps set them apart from everyone else? I know that other British musicians had residency at the school...like Alexis Korner...but The Enid were based off Classical and for some mind boggling reason..when they played..they reminded me of an orchestra without being an orchestra. A realization I did not get from hearing ELP, Genesis, Sky, Steve Hackett, King Crimson, Clearlight Symphony, and so on.......The first four albums were unlike anyone else imo ...whether or not the first two had been re-recorded in the 80's or not. Everything about them felt different and I often wondered if it was the place which inspired them to sound that way. What is your opinion on this?

[Derk]

The Enid have been a bit of a mess over the last few years with a very unstable line up, Nick Willes was in then left and rejoined the same with Dominic Toffiled, and they have tried several keyboard players too. I don't think this has helped them musically in the last year or two.

I was very disapointed with Dust, it lacked all of the hallmarks of classic Enid, strong melodies , good instrumentals and I put this down to being to heavy with vocals. I am looking forward to hopefully a more instrumental based version of the band again, although my main doubt is who will do the writing now that RJG has retired/ semi-retired ? Though I have seen a comment that they are working on material written by RJG and Jason Ducker, which I assume was originally meant to be the follow up to The Bridge, in the longer term who will take on the main composer roles is eagerly awaited.

[the ferret]

Well,it seems that the Enid is now down to a three-piece - Jason Ducker, Zachary Bullock & Dom Tolfield, who has replaced Dave Storey - after Max Read has "followed RJG's lead and stepped down from appearing with the band."

I think a huge panic has set in after grass roots fans' doubt over the direction the band took with the Joe led Dust. Critics were kind enough & I really enjoyed it but I reckon that Derk's post above is more representative of many longer term Enid fans.

[Orcopian]

Yes I agree that there was a bit of a split emerging in the fan base as they went a bit too far with the vocals being the focus. As I said earlier, on invicta the balance was right - music was great, good melodies and great playing and vocals. DUst failed to grasp my attention, Whilst there was little negativity from the fanbase and press, no one seemed blown away either, so maybe the band realised it wasn't the great leap they hoped for.

[Iris]

The end of the Joe Payne era is now marked with the release of their last show, in London earlier this year. Visually it is much better than the Bridge shows. I never really liked all that Eniland stuff. Though quite a bit of JP Enid could be hard work, notably on Dust, there's no doubt in my mind that, when it worked, it was splendid. 'First Light' here is lovely, really lovely, and the pieces from 'Invicta' are great, too. Best song on 'Dust' is 'Someone Shall Rise', and that aquits itself well here.

Anyway, something different to look forward to next year, though JP Enid does leave behind some grand moments.

[arturs]

Regarding Dust, it has slowly become a CD of the year contender for me. I didn't think too much of it when I first listened but it really grew on me. It is not Invicta, which may well be a CD of the decade, but it is still really really good. I guess you do have to like musicals to appreciate Dust!

[The Dark Elf]

I wasn't aware there was still an Enid to part company from.

[Progtastic]

Well I'm supposed to be seeing them on Sunday night, so I guess there must be!

[Derk]

Progtastic - I assume that as they are not gigging at the moment that it is a social visit ? It would be good if you could give us an update on how they are doing.

[Progtastic]

So the Enid played the Electric Dreams weekend at Butlins, Bognor. Not entirely sure of the full line-up, Max Read was still there on guitar, keyboard and vocals, as was Jason Ducker on guitar. Dominic Tofield has moved from percussion, to the full drum seat. Zach Bullock was on keyboards. I'm assuming it was Josh Judd on bass, there were no band introductions. There was a mystery person on percussion and (left handed) guitar, I was wondering if it was Nicholas Willes who played with them from 2011-14?

The set list...well they dumped all the recent material, played what seemed the whole of In The Region Of The Summer Stars, followed by Something Wicked This Way Comes and finished with Dark Hydraulic. It was only a 60 minute set. Personally it was the best Enid concert I'd been to, I haven't been entirely happy with the direction since Journeys End.

Max did say that this was the final concert with this lineup but that the Enid would continue with Jason, Zach and Dominic in 2017.

Edit. Not Nicholas Willes, seems he is a right hander...

[Orcopian]

So the Enid played the Electric Dreams weekend at Butlins, Bognor. Not entirely sure of the full line-up, Max Read was still there on guitar, keyboard and vocals, as was Jason Ducker on guitar. Dominic Tofield has moved from percussion, to the full drum seat. Zach Bullock was on keyboards. I'm assuming it was Josh Judd on bass, there were no band introductions. There was a mystery person on percussion and (left handed) guitar, I was wondering if it was Nicholas Willes who played with them from 2011-14?

The set list...well they dumped all the recent material, played what seemed the whole of In The Region Of The Summer Stars, followed by Something Wicked This Way Comes and finished with Dark Hydraulic. It was only a 60 minute set. Personally it was the best Enid concert I'd been to, I haven't been entirely happy with the direction since Journeys End.

Max did say that this was the final concert with this lineup but that the Enid would continue with Jason, Zach and Dominic in 2017.

Edit. Not Nicholas Willes, seems he is a right hander...

I think it might have been Duncan mcClochlin, he guested on dark hydraulic when I saw them earlier this year, he was left handed and is a friend of the band, I think I have read some posts on their Facebook page suggesting he might be more involved in the new line-up

[jamesmanzi]

Anyway, something different to look forward to next year, though JP Enid does leave behind some grand moments.

Thanks for reviving this thread. The Enid has always been completely outside my realm of experience. Been listening to a lot of it at my desk the last few days. Listening to Dust right now on Spotify (ironic after watching this yesterday).

This stuff is right up one of my alley's. I'm enjoying it as someone who loves a good musical rather than a prog fan.

[jamesmanzi]

Listening to The Bridge now. Man, this Payne cat's got some pipes.