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Thread: The Astounding Parallel of Yes / Genesis

  1. #1

    The Astounding Parallel of Yes / Genesis

    Not sure if it was something in the air or the water, but I find it truly odd or coincidental that arguably two of the most admired progressive rock bands took such astoundingly similar trajectory or parallel paths through the music of the 1970's without the interchanging of key members or personal.

    Both bands add new members and come out in 1971 with albums that were a huge leaps from their previous releases. Both had two prior albums, interesting but far cries from The Yes Album and Nursery Cryme.

    Both bands in particular bring in what will become legendary groundbreaking guitar players in 71 (Hackett and Howe)

    Both bands make a run of six fantastic albums

    Genesis:

    Nursery Cryme 71
    Foxtrot 72
    Selling England by the Pound 73
    The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 74
    Trick of the Tail 76
    Wind and Wuthering 76

    YES:

    The Yes Album 71
    Fragile 71
    Close to the Edge 72
    Tales from Topographic Oceans 73
    Relayer 74
    Going for the One 77

    After this run, both bands clearly run out of steam with albums that are certainly lesser siblings with
    (Then it was over) and (Tormato Soup) Both of these records come out in 78.

    Both bands offer up over the top epics within months of one another with double concept albums "Tales" and "The Lamb"

    Both Tales and Lamb create inner turmoil, enough that key members jump ship (Gabriel and Wakeman)
    Both are replaced without much of a blink and both comeback (ditching the double albums) with stellar releases (Trick of the Tail and Relayer)

    They both make one more iconic album (Going for the One, Wind and Wuthering) before artistically imploding (this isn't about album sales)

    I never got the feeling that they were listening closely to one another musically or conceptually. (I do get the feeling Starcastle members all had every YES album).

    Both drummers (Bruford and Collins) needed even further artistic freedom, venturing off into even more eclectic pastures with King Crimson and Brand X.

    All in all, these two bands eventually solidify themselves as the #1 and #2 (if you took a general consensus of prog fans) pillars of progressive rock.

    I find this all much more mystically compelling than playing DSOTM while watching Wizard of Oz
    Was it the English water (Ale)? British Air (herb)?
    Last edited by Tributary Records; 08-31-2016 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    Bruford did tour with Genesis in 1976 but so there was a little interchange there but yes, two fantastic groups indeed.

  3. #3
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I recall an interview with Yes from the late 70s or early 80s, in which the interviewer says something to the band about Genesis sounding too close to Yes by the late 70s. The band agreed, and then some throat clearing and other noises indicating discomfort before the interview moved on.

    I can't recall who conducted the interview, but I think it was a male and British.

  4. #4
    And both bands had a Banks in it at the beginning.
    Of course the two Steve H's would team up later too.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ledsox View Post
    And both bands had a Banks in it at the beginning.
    Of course the two Steve H's would team up later too.
    Can't believe I missed that...but of course..... bizarre really if you think about it.
    Beyond bizarre.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    Bruford did tour with Genesis in 1976 but so there was a little interchange there but yes, two fantastic groups indeed.
    Sure, that is correct, but I didn't ever think of Bruford as a member of Genesis... never in the writing process etc... just filling in for Collins to get up front and sing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ledsox View Post
    And both bands had a Banks in it at the beginning.
    Of course the two Steve H's would team up later too.
    Even more amazingly, they each had a founding lineup with a Peter, a Tony, and a Chris!

  9. #9
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    Phil Collins was a big Yes fan before he joined Genesis- I think he almost tried out to be their drummer around that brief period when Bruford went to university.

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    I think I read that sometime in 69 or 70, Bruford thought about leaving Yes to resume his studies before changing his mind and returning to the band. I remember a Phil Collins interview where he said that he had seen Yes live a great number of times and knew their set by heart, and that he had thought of auditioning. He said he was sure he would have got the gig if he had applied, but for some reason I can't remember, he didn't (maybe he was already with Genesis). I don't know how much of this story is accurate but it shows that Phil listened to Yes and liked them.

  11. #11
    Member gearHed289's Avatar
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    Ha! Cool stuff. All little tidbits that I was aware of, but seeing it all laid out like this really puts it all in perspective.

  12. #12
    Both Bill and Phil were very jazzy drummers which laid the rhythmic foundation for what later became known as progressive rock. Certainly both more jazz drummers than rock drummers at the onset. On a deeper look into their styles within a jazz focus, they were very different...
    but that is stuff mostly for obsessive drummers to discuss and could be a it's own topic of conversation... a good one though.

  13. #13
    Certainly there were and are the endless comparisons between Wakeman and Banks, Howe and Hackett, Squire and Rutheford, Bruford and Collins. Both also had big visionaries leading the conceptual direction with Anderson and Gabriel. The beauty of it all is that while there were big similarities, there were also huge differences that are still of interest over 40 years later.

  14. #14
    When Rick Wakeman left Yes he commented on his disappointment in the bleeding present on Topographic Oceans and pointing to the direction Yes are taking being partially the reason for handing in his resignation. Jon Anderson had the attitude that a band is on a traveling bus ,( I think?),, and whoever is unhappy with the direction the bus is traveling must get off. Something to that effect, but you get the point.


    With Genesis....I got the impression that there may have been aspects to Banks, Rutherford, Collins, and Hackett's attitude which spelled out not liking or chancing a double album production and that Gabriel may have been more at ease with the project. Not a hundred percent sure, but it seemed that way in interviews.


    With Genesis and Yes both.....the core members were like family, had stuck it out and progressed in the business and decided in the end that they would continue as a unit even if it meant losing a certain member that was a vital chemistry to the band.


    When Rick Wakeman left Yes,...the band hired Patrick Moraz and focused on doing a different KIND of album...which is usually a course of action that can be successful when hiring a new member. When Genesis lost Gabriel they were bound and determined to find a singer.


    Both situations are fixable when a unit has been together for years and when a band as a family can appropriately move on with confidence in the outcome. Unlike McDonald and Giles telling Robert Fripp that they were leaving during a U.S. tour in '69 and making him feel like his stomach had dropped. As Fripp didn't have the time to build up that confidence within himself like Genesis and Yes did. He didn't have enough time to enjoy his rewarding high ideals and was literally shocked over the possibility that he could lose King Crimson.

  15. #15
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGuitarist View Post
    SHT
    Yeah, it IS So Hellaciously True.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting any of this is more than coincidence.

    I also don't think Genesis and Yes ever sounded alike.

  16. #16
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Yes, I've noticed a lot of similarity between the two bands myself and I think that over all these two bands probably share more of the same fanbase than any other two prog bands(mainly the seventies era though). Yes had way more lineup changes than Genesis but other than that there were some strong similarities. However, personally I see more similarities between Genesis and Spock's Beard.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
    Not sure if it was something in the air or the water, but I find it truly odd or coincidental that arguably two of the most admired progressive rock bands took such astoundingly similar trajectory or parallel paths through the music of the 1970's without the interchanging of key members or personal.

    Both bands add new members and come out in 1971 with albums that were a huge leaps from their previous releases. Both had two prior albums, interesting but far cries from The Yes Album and Nursery Cryme.

    Both bands in particular bring in what will become legendary groundbreaking guitar players in 71 (Hackett and Howe)

    Both bands make a run of six fantastic albums

    Genesis:

    Nursery Cryme 71
    Foxtrot 72
    Selling England by the Pound 73
    The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 74
    Trick of the Tail 76
    Wind and Wuthering 76

    YES:

    The Yes Album 71
    Fragile 71
    Close to the Edge 72
    Tales from Topographic Oceans 73
    Relayer 74
    Going for the One 77

    After this run, both bands clearly run out of steam with albums that are certainly lesser siblings with
    (Then it was over) and (Tormato Soup) Both of these records come out in 78.

    Both bands offer up over the top epics within months of one another with double concept albums "Tales" and "The Lamb"

    Both Tales and Lamb create inner turmoil, enough that key members jump ship (Gabriel and Wakeman)
    Both are replaced without much of a blink and both comeback (ditching the double albums) with stellar releases (Trick of the Tail and Relayer)

    They both make one more iconic album (Going for the One, Wind and Wuthering) before artistically imploding (this isn't about album sales)

    I never got the feeling that they were listening closely to one another musically or conceptually. (I do get the feeling Starcastle members all had every YES album).

    Both drummers (Bruford and Collins) needed even further artistic freedom, venturing off into even more eclectic pastures with King Crimson and Brand X.

    All in all, these two bands eventually solidify themselves as the #1 and #2 (if you took a general consensus of prog fans) pillars of progressive rock.

    I find this all much more mystically compelling than playing DSOTM while watching Wizard of Oz
    Was it the English water (Ale)? British Air (herb)?
    It's a coincidence alright. In the interviews Genesis did for the Deluxe Edition of "Lamb", Steve Hackett even said that he compares Genesis' "The Lamb" to Yes' "Topographic Oceans" in that both were double LPs. And while I'm not crazy about Genesis' Pop hits in the '80s, I felt they were better at aiming for a more mainstream sound (unlike Yes who really only succeeded once in the '80s with "90125").

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Yes, I've noticed a lot of similarity between the two bands myself and I think that over all these two bands probably share more of the same fanbase than any other two prog bands(mainly the seventies era though). Yes had way more lineup changes than Genesis but other than that there were some strong similarities. However, personally I see more similarities between Genesis and Spock's Beard.
    Only similar that they both had jazzy drummers, melodic bassists, virtuoso guitarists, heavy keyboard palates and very strong visionary front men.
    Of course both being from the UK and having major label support on both sides of the pond which helped a lot.

  19. #19
    Yes were better from 69-73 and Genesis were better from 74-78

  20. #20
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Yes, I've noticed a lot of similarity between the two bands myself
    A lot of this was the trajectory of the times -- 1971 was an era of huge advancement for nearly everybody, but by 1978 the music industry started eating its young. The coincidence of the names is odd but English bands had lads with English names (where are Trevor and Stewart?). The market of 1971-8 allowed unfettered musical experimentation that would not have been allowed after 1979. Also, distribution was available with "hippie labels" like Virgin and Dandelion and Vertigo popping up, that would be taken over and "monetized" by the suits by 1980.

  21. #21
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Based on general consensus among prog fans but also my own opinion:

    Yes over FGTR
    Trespass over T&AW
    TYA over NC
    Fragile and CTTE over Foxtrot
    SEBTP over Tales
    Relayer over TLLDOB
    ATOTT & W&W over GFTO

    TYA, Fragile and CTTE are probably by far Yes's most highly acclaimed albums and among the most highly acclaimed in prog rock in general. To many they never bettered those and some might say nothing after those even comes close( a few might say relayer). Many prog fans however, seem to give higher ratings to Genesis for a longer run of albums(NC(if not Trespass)up to and including W&W). We can split hairs all we want and I don't even necessarily agree with prog critics or consensus or whatever(not to mention ratings on gnosis or progarchives also). Yes were more popular in the seventies(not that it means much)while Genesis became more popular as a pop band in the eighties(even though Yes got popular again then too). I will say that these days most fans of both bands(self included)tend to favor the 70's material(sometimes by far).

  22. #22
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROGMONSTER View Post
    Yes were better from 69-73 and Genesis were better from 74-78
    I would tend to agree but it is arguable. Yes put out two albums in 72(Fragile and CTTE)giving them an advantage there while Genesis put out two albums in 76(Trick and Wind)giving them an advantage in that period of time. One of the problems with using time delineation is that sometimes it's unclear when the exact release date is. For example is Tales a 73 album or a 74 album? Other albums also have release dates that depend on country etc.

  23. #23
    Member itserik's Avatar
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    And then there was this...Yes playing Watcher of the Skies w/ Peter Gabriel on vocals:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYw0Lci3XU

  24. #24
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itserik View Post
    And then there was this...Yes playing Watcher of the Skies w/ Peter Gabriel on vocals:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYw0Lci3XU
    Do you have any documentation to confirm that this really happened? Sounds like a Genesis tribute band.

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    In addition to GTR, has Squackett been mentioned?

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