Rick Derringer - Beyond the one hit wonder...

[Jerjo]

I'm listening to Johnny Winter's Live at the Fillmore East, which I now believe is his best live document. But it also made me think of how good Rick Derringer was when I listen to him and Johnny mesh the leads on this. Keeping up with Johnny Winter in 1970 when he had a full head of steam is downright heroic.

Next up I'll listen to the old Derringer Live disc, from around '77. I remember this one being played non-stop by one of my frat brothers because it was a real riff-fest. Derringer was pretty inconsistent in his studio albums but that live album just kicked ass. He had a hotter than hell band back then. And the album cover is a classic.

derringer_live_front1.jpg

[Dave (in MA)]

I haven't heard that album, but my recollection of when he was the opening act for Aerosmith (my first concert) in '77, was that his playing was a little too widdly-widdly-widdly¹ for my taste. I always liked what little I heard on the radio.

[ronmac]

I LOVE Derringer Live! Wore out the grooves on that one. (I had it on 8-track, too.) It's my understanding that his live version of "You really got Me" is what inspired Van Halen to do their own version. I know they toured together. But, this album has some great guitar work by someone whom I consider the most underrated guitarist out there Rick can play any style as good as anyone, IMO. "Beyond the Universe" has some great interplay between Rick and his other guitarist, whose name escapes me.



Re: Johnny Winter at the Fillmore, it is certainly great. And a nice expanded version of the And Live album that came out way back when. I am also a huge fan of Johnny's "Captured Live," which is from Johnny's rock and roll years and shows he could play as well as anyone. Floyd Radford's guitar work on that kills, too.

If one listens to Johnny's playing while the others take the lead, they'll learn how great of a rhythm player he was, as well.

[ronmac]

Rick's also one of the top studio/guest musicians. I didn't realize until I learned on PE that he played lead guitar on Alice Cooper's "Under My Wheels."

He's made some dumb moves in his career, but he's a monster talent.

[Staun]

He and Joe Walsh did a few things together. Of course there was Edgar.

[-=RTFR666=-]

Saw Rick at the World Series of Rock in Cleveland (J Geils, Bob Seger, and Peter Frampton headlining in 1977), and again on the White Lightning tour in the early 90s with Edgar Winter on the bill, along with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers (with Coco Montoya), and Mick Taylor. Great show at the Sunrise Music Theater in Ft Lauderdale.

[mogrooves]

I'm listening to Johnny Winter's Live at the Fillmore East.

I was in attendance. Good times, indeed!

Derringer gets my vote as "most improved player" from his time with The McCoys to when he went with Winter. (Trower is runner-up)

[Guitarplyrjvb]

"Beyond the Universe" has some great interplay between Rick and his other guitarist, whose name escapes me.

Danny Johnson?

[ronmac]

Danny Johnson?

yep

[The Dark Elf]

Give Edgar Winter's White Trash a listen for some vintage Derringer licks.

[Jerjo]

Give Edgar Winter's White Trash a listen for some vintage Derringer licks.

The live Edgar Winter album is a real treat. I might have to listen to that one tomorrow.

[The Dark Elf]

The live Edgar Winter album is a real treat. I might have to listen to that one tomorrow.

White Trash Live is worth it just to hear Edgar's amazing shrieks on Tobacco Road.

[the winter tree]

When I was 17 I was a passenger in car that rolled twice on the way to a Derringer concert in Fitchburg, MA. Nobody was injured(one guy was thrown out the front passenger window but was unscathed). After the cops let us go we hitched a ride to the show in a semi hauling a milk tanker. Two of my friends hid in the bushes and then road on the ladders in back of the tanker for the remaining 10 miles to the concert. Crazy night...

[Digital_Man]

I've always liked the song "rock n roll hootchie koo" but I've heard that the whole album is good. One of the guys from Yes(I forget who but possibly Wakeman)named it as one of his favorite albums.

[Enid]

yep

Just remembered having this album by a band that Danny Johnson formed almost immediately after the Derringer band broke up. Vinnie Appice was on drums, Danny Johnson on guitar, and I believe it was the bass player for the Derringer band....(he wore glasses on the cover of "Sweet Evil"). They were a trio and for some reason the name AXIS comes to mind. Was that their name or was it something else?

[Enid]

I saw him play with The Edgar Winter Group just after Ronnie Montrose left. I never got to see him again...although sometime in the late 70's and early 80's he'd be playing around the flippin' corner from me. Usually on a strip where he would be down the street. I was 17 when I saw him perform and 19 when we both played the same circuit....same bookings. Never got to meet him..let alone see him. He was a killer guitarist! He was a lot more diverse than people realized and even back then to a degree...for it seemed that the only people I met who were aware of his diversity in many guitar styles...were people who had seen him with Johnny Winter And....and....Edgar Winter's White Trash. His skill on the guitar just blew me away! He was impeccable.

[Trane]

I'm listening to Johnny Winter's Live at the Fillmore East, which I now believe is his best live document. But it also made me think of how good Rick Derringer was when I listen to him and Johnny mesh the leads on this. Keeping up with Johnny Winter in 1970 when he had a full head of steam is downright heroic.

The live album is the only one I kept for any length of time... first appearance (to my knowledge of Vinny Appice,

Like Holdsworth (see that thread), he was more interesting when working for or with others (the Winter Bros, for ex)

I LOVE Derringer Live! Wore out the grooves on that one. (I had it on 8-track, too.) It's my understanding that his live version of "You really got Me" is what inspired Van Halen to do their own version. I know they toured together. But, this album has some great guitar work by someone whom I consider the most underrated guitarist out there Rick can play any style as good as anyone, IMO. "Beyond the Universe" has some great interplay between Rick and his other guitarist, whose name escapes me..

Sorry, but I don't remember You Really Got Me on the live album

Give Edgar Winter's White Trash a listen for some vintage Derringer licks.

The live Edgar Winter album is a real treat. I might have to listen to that one tomorrow.

White Trash Live is worth it just to hear Edgar's amazing shrieks on Tobacco Road.

Absolutely

[ronmac]

Sorry, but I don't remember You Really Got Me on the live album

He plays it during Rock and Roll Hoochie Koo.

[Lopez]

Saw Derringer with Johnny Winter's And band at Providence College in 1971 or so. Knew Derringer (as Rick Zehringer) from the McCoys, and was amazed at how good he was with Johnny. I saw him again in 1977 at the Paradise Club in Boston as the top biller over the Cars (who were so-so). What a showman! Finished off the last of three encores with Bowie's "Rebel, Rebel."

[Trane]

thx

[ronmac]

Saw Derringer with Johnny Winter's And band at Providence College in 1971 or so. Knew Derringer (as Rick Zehringer) from the McCoys, and was amazed at how good he was with Johnny. I saw him again in 1977 at the Paradise Club in Boston as the top biller over the Cars (who were so-so). What a showman! Finished off the last of three encores with Bowie's "Rebel, Rebel."

There's a live release from a radio broadcast in Cleveland from '77 where he finishes with "Rebel Rebel." I actually have the original radio station disc, but it did come out officially many years later.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Just remembered having this album by a band that Danny Johnson formed almost immediately after the Derringer band broke up. Vinnie Appice was on drums, Danny Johnson on guitar, and I believe it was the bass player for the Derringer band....(he wore glasses on the cover of "Sweet Evil"). They were a trio and for some reason the name AXIS comes to mind. Was that their name or was it something else?

That's the band. Their record was called "It's a Circus World" or something like that. It's a good record!

[Enid]

Rick Derringer had this impeccable right hand alternate picking technique. I don't even believe that most people realized his dimensions. He did gain the reputation of being a "Rock Star" and for a shorter time he developed a well known image as a "Pop Star". I assume he was going along with the times and the demand from record companies to tow the line. Don't get me wrong...it's fun to dress up and play on stage...just as long as you're comfortable and all because your gonna sweat under those face melting lights. Who cares about the image you have to create... You get tired of caring about it...just do what fits the times and be comfortable . You just want to play. After "All American Boy" he developed this image and also with The Edgar Winter Group when record companies were suggesting that applying a large dosage of pancake goo on your face ..would certainly help with sales. I totally accept what Rick Derringer became because he was a sincere musician and hardly dismissive of putting a section of notes in a Rock song to make it more interesting.

ON one particular MCoys instrumental he begins playing very rapidly , totally clean, melodic, and with fine skill. His solos are interesting. He's on fire...but what he is producing is progressively interesting within his improv because he had really well developed skill. I'm making reference to an instrumental up tempo swinging Blues track from a Mcoys album that surely dates itself prior to the Johnny Winter And period. So...Rick Derringer was already playing guitar like this for years and I do remember being impressed by his skill back then. I know for a fact that there were many developed sides to his guitar playing that never appeared to be evident on Edgar Winter's White Trash. Rick Derringer was the kind of musician who'd be working on something else while he was in Edgar Winter's White Trash and that something else applies to practicing and in his case developing other styles of guitar playing while he traveled with a Rock n' Roll band. That's why he became a monster player in different areas because he was developing the whole time. When we were kids watching him on television...he was busy developing his skills. Some people don't get that. I play for audiences every week and actually??...no...most people do not understand Rick Derringer being this skilled guitarist hiding under pancake goo.


Imagine people like this ..who are innocently misinformed about his dimensions as a player ...walking into the dressing room and he's sitting there playing some outstanding Jazz piece on the guitar. They want his autograph and totally remember him as a cute "Rock or Pop star" they liked in their youth. They remember him being a flashy Rock guitarist and any clue of them understanding that he is a diverse guitarist is in a galaxy, far, far away. Even what we all heard on records in areas of being a clean player with skill is not revealing at all...as he was a far better player than that. he was probably playing Jazz on the guitar before the Mcoys ...I mean to say that he was a developer in a serious way. In his mid to late 20's and 30's he could be caught in the act of playing something very technical and progressive. That's if you walked into his tent . This one snobby lady I know from the music business...called me on that one night after a performance. She pigeon holes everything in life intelligently, but persists in categorizing someone's label to the level of their talent. And then she voices these kinds of opinions , (which are not well rounded), in a music magazine or newspaper. One night after a show she started this debate with me off stage about how Rick Derringer is nothing more than a Rock guitarist and laughing at me when I gave an abundance of credibility to him for playing other styles. She was relentless and trying to make me look like a fool.


I turned to the roadies for support but they only knew Rick Derringer as a Rock guitarist. Okay...so there's nothing we can do about the image Rick Derringer gave to hundreds of people. ...but forget about that for a moment and focus on what is real. If he's a skilled musician, he is real. If he's an artist that created a certain image in many people's minds but he was also a progressive kind of player underneath it all, that could logically be possible.. correct? So this is an example of how 'Rock journalism" can program a large amount of people's minds . My point does not revolve around Rick Derringer making a decision to sell out a little for fame. It's the realization of people giving me a confused look whenever I credit him. The guy could play Jazz and Prog if he wanted to. I'd be curious to see what Rick Derringer would have done on a Bo Hanson album or what he would have played on Billy Cobham's Spectrum instead of having Tommy Bolin. It is a realization.

[ronmac]

Another great post from Enid.

The pancake was for a pretty short period, as I'm sure you know. Some of the promo photos of him during those years gave him some regrets. It's my understanding that he yielded to the promoters, so I don't think it was his idea to appear so feminine in some of them. That being said, some photo shoots with the Edgar Winter Group were intentionally made to look like females. I guess it was kinda interesting at the time. But, in retrospect, it was questionable judgment, to say the least. And, granted, his Spring Fever cover didn't help matters:



Rick doesn't get much credit for his songwriting. Genius? No. But, he could come up with some really great songs, "Still Alive and Well," being one example. And he was a prolific producer and session musician. He put out some great blues albums several years ago. Hardly a spec of soul, mind you, but really good playing. And he can play country licks as well as anyone.

[Enid]

I really like Rick Derringer's Y.T. vid on the subject of fame. Everything he talks about regarding the truth in that subject is precisely what I went through in my youth. He's one of the few people expanding on the details of the psychological aspect of fame. Particularly when he gives the example of a person having high ideals to make it in the music business and once they get there...nothing is changed and they are letdown. In my case several of my musician friends were too young to understand what kind of person they were. And when we hit the corporate level, they started acting depressed. Their environment was surely much different than the average person's life..but they expected their personal visions , regrets, pressures, disappointments..to change and that's not possible just because you make it. I witnessed several of them commit suicide . I was traveling on a bus with them and noticed their change in behavior over an extension of time. Each one of them dropped like flies as we traveled.

Rick Derringer makes reference to a musician getting older and having more and more disappointment ...and as a result committing suicide. In my case it happened to my band mates when they were at a very young age. Either way...the psychological twist to this experience, (that is well documented), is not often detailed enough to observe the concept of a young person trying to make it in music. That they are unsure of who they are and then the horrific state their mind could be in when exposed to fame during their youth as opposed to a musician who had a different upbringing . Maybe an upbringing where their parents explained how life does not change all that much by being famous...and that to have high expectations of it changing for a reason like that is not only moronic..but could be a trap. That's exactly what it is...a psychological trap. Rick Derringer is very informative on this subject and I recommend his Y.T. vid to anyone who is young and about to tour.