FEATURED CD: Gnidrolog - Lady Lake

[JJ88]

^Quite! I wonder why anyone bothers questioning Svetonio...I learned that long ago, alas.

[Svetonio]

^Quite! I wonder why anyone bothers questioning Svetonio...I learned that long ago, alas.

You're disagree that Grindrolog were a symph rock band?

Review from progarchives given in the OP:

This 1972 album (a very good year for prog) defines the term "lost classic". Powerful, complex, packed with emotive playing, distinctive vocals, interesting instruments and clever arrangements, it's wuite frankly nothing short of wall-to-wall genius - symphonic prog at it's very very best. Why then, are they never ever mentioned? Lord knows, but they never made it big and as a result will forever remain an obscure footnote in the history of progressive rock. Footnotes don't get much better than this though.

Opening with the powerful (if slightly dated) "I Could Never be a Soldier", the Goldring brothers and their assembled chums proceed to deliver 42 minutes of dark, soulful symphonic prog with touches of folk, jazz and so on. You know the drill. When was the last time you heard a prog album that only had influences from one genre?

With a wide base of instruments (saxophones, flute, oboe, recorder, horn, plus the usual guitardrumsbass combo) from which to weave their compositions, there's a lot of variation in the mix, which is a wonderful boon. Add to that the fact that the pieces are all very original in their style (one can compare to Van der Graaf, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull if you like, but this was 1972 not 78 so I feel that most similarities are somewhat coincidental) and already you've got two brilliant reasons to seek out this masterpiece. If you really need a third. just look at that cover. F*ck Roger Dean! THAT'S proggy cover art!

I wish I had something bad to say about this album for the sake of balance but I really really don't. Some accuse the two short acoustic pieces of being inferior, or worse "filler". I disagree. I think they're beautiful additions and act as helpful interludes to allow the ears some recovery time before the next onslaught of wailing saxes, pounding drums and aggressive guitars. The only other criticism I've seen levelled against Gnidrolog is the vocals. Yes, they're a little high pitched at times, yes they're somewhat nasal. However, you soon get used to them and in time they become inseperable from Gnidrolog's sound. I wouldn't swap 'em for anything.

VDGG fans, fans of all dark, jazz-tinged symphonic prog - why do you not already own this? - The Hemulen




Or you're disagree with me that Gnidrolog was a band that played in (strong) second league of British Symphonic rock bands in heydays of the genre?
Or both?
Maybe you're fan of "eclectic prog"?

[JJ88]

^I'm a big fan of Nick Logan and Bob Wolffinden's The Illustrated Encylopedia Of Rock.

[Svetonio]

^I'm a big fan of Nick Logan and Bob Wolffinden's The Illustrated Encylopedia Of Rock.

Good for you.

[spiderfeathers]

Yezda Urfa? Is that a fair comparison? Have to re-listen to both bands, but I always get them confused with one another.

[Koreabruce]

Please tell me why these labels are sooooooo important that you all have to go back and forth about it like this. It all just comes across as "I'm right, you're wrong!" Personally, I don't care at all what genre/subgenre Gnidrolog falls under. Most of these so-called genres were created and applied retroactively anyway. I just appreciate that they made this music. It's edgy and angular and definitely not mainstream, that much is certain. It scratches an itch I have several times a year when I want to hear edgy and angular. That is all. Enjoy it with or without the labels!

[Svetonio]

(...) Personally, I don't care at all what genre/subgenre Gnidrolog falls under (...)

Personally, I do care. Well, same as some others here and also those who consciously or unconsciously but always feverishly support that progarchives' disaster categorization [where e.g. Gnidrolog is "eclectic prog"] what confused many people who wanted to know something more about progressive music's evolution tree.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Yezda Urfa? Is that a fair comparison? Have to re-listen to both bands, but I always get them confused with one another.

Possibly because of the vocal timbre; both had that screechy tenor with a bit of a, uh, nasal quality to it. Musically they were quite different, though - and obviously with a few years parting them. I really like both bands; I intend to spin them tonight. And some Roye guitar.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Please tell me why these labels are sooooooo important that you all have to go back and forth about it like this. It all just comes across as "I'm right, you're wrong!"

It isn't. That's why I tried getting out of it by way of discussion, seeing as this is supposedly a discussion forum. Didn't work. It's all just bossanova to me, and why the hell not.

[Koreabruce]

Personally, I do care. Well, same as some others here and also those who consciously or unconsciously but always feverishly support that progarchives' disaster categorization [where e.g. Gnidrolog is "eclectic prog"] what confused many people who wanted to know something more about progressive music's evolution tree.

Yeah, I get that. If it's important to you and that's your passion, then drive on! But for the purposes of this thread, the genre seems like a very minor side issue, and the back-and-forth starts to take away from the spirit of friendly discussion.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ That's really not my point. I tried desperately to present a set of arguments, and the very brief exchange of reflection took place between Cozy and myself. Gnidrolog are mostly a well liked band among those who truly know their work and don't care about "sorting" it; greatness doesn't emannate from generics as such, but from substance and subjective experience accordingly - right? Then if there's an attempted argument at accentuating "badness" on account of something not being what it's not even trying to be - this is where discussion should occur. Yet it didn't.

I'll leave it at that. Gnidrolog were a solid act and made some unusual music. People should try them out for the latter reason alone.

[Koreabruce]

I was actually responding more to Svetonio than to you. Sorry if that wasn't so clear. I find most often that I agree with your sentiments.

[Trane]

Their third studio album, recorded for their comeback in 2000, is fairly good.

the first track is outstanding... the rest nears absolute nihil, IMHO

In case anyone wants a copy, mine's up for grabs

[yoyiceu]

For what it's worth, in 1972 Melody Maker's Chris Welch supposedly called them 'the worst band in England' in the column The Raver after their first album, a mention that supposedly haunted the band for the rest of their short history. Welch currently writes a monthly column for Record Collector y curiously, was recently taken to task for that old quote in the letters section after he again mentioned the band in unflattering terms. In his answer, Welch said he didn't remember having written the 'worst band' quote and affirmed that The Raver was written by different members of the Melody Maker staff, not him.
He then wrote: . I don’t even recall ever hearing the band, but I’m sure they were very good and had their loyal supporters.
My problem with Gnidrolog was purely one of proof correction, one of many tasks we had to complete between reporting on the skiffle boom and listing the fluctuating price of flugelhorns. If Grinid… GNIDROLOG was misspelt in a story, our hot metal printers would have to bash out the type or reset it on a giant Linotype machine, resulting in scowls, calls for overtime and the threat of a union protest march.
Sorry if I have offended any fans and I will try to absorb their music now with unbiased ears. You never know, I might become their biggest fan.

[ashratom]

Please tell me why these labels are sooooooo important that you all have to go back and forth about it like this. It all just comes across as "I'm right, you're wrong!" Personally, I don't care at all what genre/subgenre Gnidrolog falls under. Most of these so-called genres were created and applied retroactively anyway. I just appreciate that they made this music. It's edgy and angular and definitely not mainstream, that much is certain. It scratches an itch I have several times a year when I want to hear edgy and angular. That is all. Enjoy it with or without the labels!

Exactly right? I know my post was completely ignored (well it probably would have been anyway), but since Svetonio's followed mine, it then set off the tangent discussion. Anyway, as you stated, I also think it's a good old fashioned early 70s UK prog album that hits the spot occasionally. The genre warriors can pork duke it out if they wish.

And an interesting anecdote about Chris Welch!

[Poisoned Youth]

Please tell me why these labels are sooooooo important that you all have to go back and forth about it like this. It all just comes across as "I'm right, you're wrong!" Personally, I don't care at all what genre/subgenre Gnidrolog falls under. Most of these so-called genres were created and applied retroactively anyway. I just appreciate that they made this music. It's edgy and angular and definitely not mainstream, that much is certain. It scratches an itch I have several times a year when I want to hear edgy and angular. That is all. Enjoy it with or without the labels!

Agreed. But I will say that most people when describing the music are either going to reference a style, label, or artist when reviewing or otherwise discussing the music. So I think it's natural for people to label based on the familiar references to which they can relate. And I don't mind engaging in those discussion at all - with SS or with Svet.

But there's no reason to get childish about it, which in this case was beginning to happen.

[Poisoned Youth]

Exactly right? I know my post was completely ignored (well it probably would have been anyway), but since Svetonio's followed mine, it then set off the tangent discussion.

It wasn't ignored. Where do you think I got my Raw Material reference from?

Anyway, I hope you don't get discouraged from posting. I at least appreciate your increased participation of late.

[ashratom]

It wasn't ignored. Where do you think I got my Raw Material reference from?

Anyway, I hope you don't get discouraged from posting. I at least appreciate your increased participation of late.

on Raw Material. Yea, you may be stuck with me for awhile. Careful what you wish for

[Pr33t]

Anyway, I hope you don't get discouraged from posting. I at least appreciate your increased participation of late.

And we've gotten another 70s obscurity to over two pages in the last week.

[Svetonio]

For what it's worth, in 1972 Melody Maker's Chris Welch supposedly called them 'the worst band in England' in the column The Raver after their first album, a mention that supposedly haunted the band for the rest of their short history. Welch currently writes a monthly column for Record Collector y curiously, was recently taken to task for that old quote in the letters section after he again mentioned the band in unflattering terms. In his answer, Welch said he didn't remember having written the 'worst band' quote and affirmed that The Raver was written by different members of the Melody Maker staff, not him.
He then wrote: . I don’t even recall ever hearing the band, but I’m sure they were very good and had their loyal supporters.
My problem with Gnidrolog was purely one of proof correction, one of many tasks we had to complete between reporting on the skiffle boom and listing the fluctuating price of flugelhorns. If Grinid… GNIDROLOG was misspelt in a story, our hot metal printers would have to bash out the type or reset it on a giant Linotype machine, resulting in scowls, calls for overtime and the threat of a union protest march.
Sorry if I have offended any fans and I will try to absorb their music now with unbiased ears. You never know, I might become their biggest fan.

How pathetic. IMHO, the problem with the band was that, aside of their musical virtuosity which I don't deny, they did not create that necessary originality, so they weren't able to comfortably catch the prog-heads, always demanding - especially in heydays of progressive music; the band with such a low degree of originality - which comes down to lack of keys; to these ears, at least one grand piano that sometimes accompanies that vocal could be just nice - it was 1972, which was the year with the albums that I wouldn't even need to mention as we all know their greatness.
Also, prog-heads then listened also those fantastic albums released in 1971 as in 1972 those LPs were still freshly released mind-blowing prog masterpieces like Pawn Hearts, Aqualung, Fearless, Fragile, The Inner Mounting Flame and so on. Poor Lady Lake just did not have a chance with that giant hand.

[Koreabruce]

I mostly concur. We can enjoy these lesser-known artists' works now, nearly half a century after they recorded them, having already given over so much of our time to their much more successful contemporaries. We can analyze, evaluate, discuss, marvel at, and criticize the Gnidrologs of the rock music world, but when considering the context from which they emerged, it's not hard to understand just why they faded as they did. As for the Gnids themselves, they very well may have tried to do something original, and in some sense perhaps they did (at least on In Spite of Harry's Toe-nail in terms of arrangements), but ultimately there needs to be more elements that connect with listeners and make them want to return to the well. That's why, to me at least, I can acknowledge them to be very interesting but in a "I'll listen to this once every two years to remind myself of their stark angularity" kind of way. The others that Svetonio mentioned have become the immortals to us simply because their music was far and away more substantial, even epic.

[bRETT]

Some additional info. Bassist Peter "Mars" Cowling had a long stand in the Pat Travers Band and drummer Nigel Pegrum went on to electric folksters Steeleye Span on the Now We Are Six album.

Pegrum and Rick Kemp from Steeleye were also the other half of the Pork Dukes, with the Goldrings. Not an actual punk in the bunch!

[Trane]

How pathetic. IMHO, the problem with the band was that, aside of their musical virtuosity which I don't deny, they did not create that necessary originality, so they weren't able to comfortably catch the prog-heads, always demanding - especially in heydays of progressive music; the band with such a low degree of originality - which comes down to lack of keys; to these ears, at least one grand piano that sometimes accompanies that vocal could be just nice - it was 1972, which was the year with the albums that I wouldn't even need to mention as we all know their greatness.
Also, prog-heads then listened also those fantastic albums released in 1971 as in 1972 those LPs were still freshly released mind-blowing prog masterpieces like Pawn Hearts, Aqualung, Fearless, Fragile, The Inner Mounting Flame and so on. Poor Lady Lake just did not have a chance with that giant hand.

Your twisted perspective is baffling... and pathetic...
As if "progheads" (whatever that might've been in those years) back then were "demanding" and expecting anything... They (that "us" in our early or late teens) just took/caught whatever came to them or passed within their aural fields. If Gni didn't pierce, it's for a variety of extra-musical reasons (including lack of industry support) that do not have much to do with their musical creation (though let's face it, their "aggressive" sonics didn't help them) or bad management.

It's not the fairly similar-sounding VdGG and their albums like Pawn Hearts sold millions in those days and was playing on early-70's FM radio stations, either. Hardly anyone knew of the band outside Italy in 71... how they managed to survive and record so many albums has a lot to do with their will to continue (they had disbanded after PH, if you remember, for lack of success)... For the same price, Hammill might've given up and Graaf would've been an "unearthed early-70's gem" if they'd stopped after their thirs album Pawn Hearts (after all, it was only one more album than Lady Lake).

You're again doing what you always do: transposing today's affluent (as in comfortably/resonably financially well-off) 50-sumthing passionate musicheads with today's internet resources and transporting it in the early 70's... Duuude, 90% of "us/proheads" hardly had money enough (or time or possibility enough) to know of Gni.

Pelgrum and Rick Kemp from Steeleye were also the other half of the Pork Dukes, with the Goldrings. Not an actual punk in the bunch!

Little wonder it didn't work... Punks were very suspicious about the origins of "their bands". The Police and The Stranglers were very suspicious , the first because of their previous experiences and more consequent age, and the fact that the second band had a KB player (a no-no in those punk says) that was also a few years older to be credible in their eyes

[Scrotum Scissor]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE WAY IN WHICH THE ORIGINAL-SOUNDING GNIDROLOG WERE NOT SYMPHONIC! I THINK ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL NON-SYMPH QUALITY ALL THE TIME!

[Trane]

From whatever I hear in the first album (playing as I write - I had no time or way to re-listen to this before today), the influences mostly refers to pre-classical music (like Gryphon GG or stuff like Amazing Blondel, the first ELO or Fuchsia)... This pre-classical means (in my book anyways) pre-Bach era, and it's still a time stretch to symphonic era classical music.