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Thread: UK -SHM(SACD) releases

  1. #1

    UK -SHM(SACD) releases

    So, i was geeking around on ebay and saw that these were released in this format. Are they worth shelling out the money for. And yes, i have an SACD player as part of my mother system.

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    I thought SHM and SACD were totally different formats and were never combined. Maybe I'm wrong.


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fracktured View Post
    I thought SHM and SACD were totally different formats and were never combined. Maybe I'm wrong.


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    SHM isn't really a specific format but rather a way to manufacture CDs that can be applied to SACD as well. The SHM-SACDs lack the CD layer; they can only be played on SACD players.

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    Member TheH's Avatar
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    SHM CDs do not sound a Cent better than normal CDs, they are just designed to hold longer than normal CDs.

    SACD might Sound better, but that's based on the source as they just can hold more information.

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    I would expect that SHM applied to SACD would make even less difference because the bit rate is higher and the result is less affected by a given bit error rate.

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    I have the shm cd of the first and platinum shm cd of the second and Jobson Zinc release. I like the sound of all, I think I read somewhere the source material was very good for all.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    SHM CDs do not sound a Cent better than normal CDs, they are just designed to hold longer than normal CDs.

    SACD might Sound better, but that's based on the source as they just can hold more information.
    Yes! Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I would expect that SHM applied to SACD would make even less difference because the bit rate is higher and the result is less affected by a given bit error rate.
    The bit rate is the same. SACD is a 1 bit format, regardless of the manufacturing process

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    I know the one's from Japan are new masters .Not from master tapes but flat transfers with no EQ,I have the Tangerine Dream ones that sound great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    The bit rate is the same. SACD is a 1 bit format, regardless of the manufacturing process
    That's obviously not true. CD has 50 per cent the bit rate of SACD. SACD is 2.8 Mbps and and Cd is 1.4 Mbps.
    Last edited by Firth; 07-18-2016 at 06:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    That's obviously not true. CD has 50 per cent the bit rate of SACD. SACD is 2.8 Mbps and 1.4 Mbps.
    You are confusing bit depth and sample rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    You are confusing bit depth and sample rate.
    No, just pointing that the 2 formats are physically different, and the players are different too. Without real objective data, there is a question about whether SHM does anything for SACD. On a disc is a bit stream and the bit rate is higher for high res formats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    You are confusing bit depth and sample rate.
    Actually you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Actually you are.
    Chris with all due respect, I'm quite correct. Perhaps you are not expressing yourself correctly and we are not finding common ground. You are interchanging bit depth and sampling rate in your posts. They are not the same thing.

    SACD is a disc format that contains DSD files. DSD is a 1-bit format at a very high sampling rate (2.8224 mhz). This is compared to Redbook CD which is PCM based and is a 16 bit format at a sampling rate of 44.1 mhz. I will refer you to the Wikipedia page for SACD format: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD

    There are downloadable recordings at higher sampling rates of DSD ie DSD128 and DSD256 but that has nothing to do with SACD. The specifications for the SACD format are clearly defined.

    Where you and I are most likely in agreement is that SHM (a manufacturing technique) makes any difference at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Chris with all due respect, I'm quite correct. Perhaps you are not expressing yourself correctly and we are not finding common ground. You are interchanging bit depth and sampling rate in your posts. They are not the same thing.

    SACD is a disc format that contains DSD files. DSD is a 1-bit format at a very high sampling rate (2.8224 mhz). This is compared to Redbook CD which is PCM based and is a 16 bit format at a sampling rate of 44.1 mhz. I will refer you to the Wikipedia page for SACD format: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD

    There are downloadable recordings at higher sampling rates of DSD ie DSD128 and DSD256 but that has nothing to do with SACD. The specifications for the SACD format are clearly defined.

    Where you and I are most likely in agreement is that SHM (a manufacturing technique) makes any difference at all.
    At the end of the day, on a disc, is a bitstream. All of that higher order formatting info doesn't matter. A bitstream with a bit rate. CD is 44 KHz sample rate times 2 channels times 16 bits per sample or 1.4 Mbs bit rate. DSD/SACD is 2.8 Mbs.

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    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    At the end of the day, on a disc, is a bitstream. All of that higher order formatting info doesn't matter. A bitstream with a bit rate. CD is 44 KHz sample rate times 2 channels times 16 bits per sample or 1.4 Mbs bit rate. DSD/SACD is 2.8 Mbs.
    I'm with you now.

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    You guys are being a "bit" anal about this aren't you?

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    In reply to the actual question, how do these discs sound? The original EG CD issues of UK's albums actually sounded pretty good. These SACD issues sound, to me a tad better, but not a revelation in sonic improvement. There was a question on what sources were used for these issues. The credits stated they were from the original analogue tapes, EJ begged to differ. You may want to wait (for how long, is anyone's guess) for the box set which will include hi-res stereo on blu-rays. They may be the ultimate in digital editions for these albums, depending on what EJ has done in the remastering. I would wait on comments on these first.

  19. #19
    Who gives a rats ass, as long as they sound good!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I would expect that SHM applied to SACD would make even less difference because the bit rate is higher and the result is less affected by a given bit error rate.
    Yeah, true; but in Japan all new SACDs that i've seen have come out as SHM-SACD...

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    No, just pointing that the 2 formats are physically different, and the players are different too. Without real objective data, there is a question about whether SHM does anything for SACD. On a disc is a bit stream and the bit rate is higher for high res formats.
    FWIW, I've done a few plain SHM CD a/b's to regular CDs and couldn't hear any difference...well, unless the SHM CD was remastered, in which case results varied...and to which I attributed the remastering, not the SHM material.

    I could be wrong, but in my limited test that's what I found.

    SACD, on the other hand, can be remarkable...again, if the mastering is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    FWIW, I've done a few plain SHM CD a/b's to regular CDs and couldn't hear any difference...well, unless the SHM CD was remastered, in which case results varied...and to which I attributed the remastering, not the SHM material.

    I could be wrong, but in my limited test that's what I found.

    SACD, on the other hand, can be remarkable...again, if the mastering is good.
    The advantage of SACD is that the mastering job isn't as difficult and to some extent the end result is easier to obtain than with CD. Obviously if the master tape or original multichannel tapes, are not directly archived in a high resolution format, SACD can't save it. A direct transfer is more likely achieved with SACD which means to me no mastering required. CD is still a limited dynamic range format and requires some mastering tricks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIPMEISTER View Post
    Who gives a rats ass, as long as they sound good!
    Or as long as you BELIEVE they sound good!

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    BTW, did you all see this in the new Syn-Phonic list? I thought if I mentioned it you'd all suddenly need it:

    DUST AND DREAMS BOX (DUST AND DREAMS/ON THE ROAD 1972/ON THE ROAD 1982/HARBOUR OF TEARS/ON THE ROAD 1981/RAJAZ/‘73 - ’75 GODS OF LIGHT/A NOD AND A WINK) (8 CD) (JAPANESE MINI LP SLEEVE SHM-CD BOX SET) $310

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