King Crimson- "Radical Action Live" CD/DVD Release August

[JKL2000]

Yep. Really looking forward to this .

If any of you have bought the big live boxes from the 70s, you will note that they give you both the DVD and a Blu-ray additions included, even though they may have the same content. I don't mind.

Hadn't thought of that - will have to have a look and refresh my memory.

But somehow it seems different when you're only buying a set of maybe 4 or 5 disks. Including both DVDs and a BD is like including a CD and vinyl. Make separate packages and save your customer $5. It would be the customer-centric way to go. But I guess since we're talking a niche market we should be more flexible.

[Trane]

So....it's wrong that he want's DGM to profit from Crimson? Are there others out there being slighted because of his "exploitation" of KC? Those poor bootleggers of old losing revenue to the artist. What a world we live in.

And so many tedious complaints... Thats his way, so be it. I guess great musicians have quirks like the rest of us. Certainly his close friends know a different and more amiable guy.

I wasn't really criticizing... Just re-re-re-stating the obvious...

[Nijinsky Hind]

I wasn't really criticizing... Just re-re-re-stating the obvious...

Ha. I was agreeing with you Trane.

[battema]

Hadn't thought of that - will have to have a look and refresh my memory.

But somehow it seems different when you're only buying a set of maybe 4 or 5 disks. Including both DVDs and a BD is like including a CD and vinyl. Make separate packages and save your customer $5. It would be the customer-centric way to go. But I guess since we're talking a niche market we should be more flexible.

IMHO to follow...

When you get a disc professionally done, there is a flat cost associated with making the master copies, preparing the artwork and all the templates. After that, it is just a cost per copy, however that falls out. I don't know the exact ratio of startup/per copy costs, but I'm pretty sure it isn't 10/90. This is why when you do represses it is cheaper, because you're only paying for the replication, not the creation of the master templates/materials.

If you do separate runs for each permutation of a set (CD + DVD, CD only, CD + Blu Ray, CD/Blu Ray/DVD combo), then there's likely a startup cost for each permutation. Even if you reduce the # of copies of each permutation, my guess is that the overall cost would be HIGHER, which may result in a higher cost to the consumer, not lower. And we're talking about a deluxe package here, so costs are already probaby higher in terms of manufacturing.

IMHO, while clearly some folks still favor DVD, Blu Ray has become FAR more prevalent, especially where high-end audio is of interest (and since DVD-Audio hasn't exactly taken the market by storm). It makes good business sense to do the "standard" combo with the more prevalent format, and include the less common format in a deluxe edition (which, unless I'm missing something isn't ASTRONOMICALLY higher in price). And if you're someone who's GOTTA have the deluxe for the booklet then...well, IMHO suffer through the agony of possessing a disc that probably added next to nothing in the cost (I'd wager the majority of the cost difference is the packaging, not the DVD).

All IMHO, in case you hadn't figured it out

[Dave (in MA)]

The overlays wouldn't be my first choice, but at least there's no 1920s silent movie footage during key instrumental passages.

[JKL2000]

The overlays wouldn't be my first choice, but at least there's no 1920s silent movie footage during key instrumental passages.

Why are there no close ups of unrelated modern dancers paired with the band shots?

[Spiral]

while clearly some folks still favor DVD, Blu Ray has become FAR more prevalent, especially where high-end audio is of interest (and since DVD-Audio hasn't exactly taken the market by storm). It makes good business sense to do the "standard" combo with the more prevalent format, and include the less common format in a deluxe edition (which, unless I'm missing something isn't ASTRONOMICALLY higher in price).

That's sort of logical, but I still don't see the point of making that deluxe edition so deluxe (and $15 isn't astronomical, but not an insignificant amount either for a lot of us these days). Pressing just a CD/DVD set has to be cheaper than adding an extra disc for a CD/DVD/BR combo, and one disc's difference wouldn't have that huge an effect on packaging costs. It's a shit package anyway if they're going the digibook route.

BR discs and players cost more than DVD discs & players, and BR discs are more trouble & expense to make, so it stands to reason the BR set should be the one that costs more. My hunch (and yes, that's all it is) would be that folks interested in one format generally wouldn't need or want the other. Is there really anyone out there who'd choose both if it was up to them?

[Trane]

I'm pretty sure that back when the Orpheum disc was released it was announced that a set containing the entire repertoire would be coming out eventually.

You are correct; it was, multiple times.

Not everyone checks out from close what Fripp farts or writes,, so some people could get suckered in buying more or less three times the same thing, with every time a little "bonus" >> second disc, then film...

But it comes in a slipcase!

Now I gotta get THAT

[Dave (in MA)]

BR discs and players cost more than DVD discs & players, and BR discs are more trouble & expense to make, so it stands to reason the BR set should be the one that costs more.

There's not that much difference between the cost of them anymore these days. You can get a fairly wide range of Bluray players for well under $100.

[JKL2000]

You can get a fairly wide range of Bluray players for well under $100.

But not one that will play the Big Big Train BD!

[jarmsuh]

But not one that will play the Big Big Train BD!

not only you have to get the right BD player but also the right TV, apparently, you can have an 60hz TV that can not play 50hz images!

[wideopenears]

Many bluray players will do an auto-conversion from that crazy Brit skew rate, etc.
They'll play PAL and NTSC formatted DVD's, too....my LG does all of this, thank goodness.

[kenticus]

Minor quibble: if you watch the footage of easy money, around 5 mins tony is out of sync with the audio.....like come on guys! I can deal with the fades as its all stationary cameras, but out of sync should not happen at all! That's a simple video edit fix that I hope is fixed on the final release of an otherwise fun, ripping version of this tune.

[proggy_jazzer]

Minor quibble: if you watch the footage of easy money, around 5 mins tony is out of sync with the audio.....like come on guys! I can deal with the fades as its all stationary cameras, but out of sync should not happen at all! That's a simple video edit fix that I hope is fixed on the final release of an otherwise fun, ripping version of this tune.

I noticed this immediately as well, and more than once. For me it's not a minor quibble at all for a professional, band-approved release such as this. I love the sample, and would like to get this, but will definitely wait until I hear some assurances that this issue is fixed.

[Trane]

Minor quibble: if you watch the footage of easy money, around 5 mins tony is out of sync with the audio.....like come on guys! I can deal with the fades as its all stationary cameras, but out of sync should not happen at all! That's a simple video edit fix that I hope is fixed on the final release of an otherwise fun, ripping version of this tune.

I noticed this immediately as well, and more than once. For me it's not a minor quibble at all for a professional, band-approved release such as this. I love the sample, and would like to get this, but will definitely wait until I hear some assurances that this issue is fixed.

To my un-professional eyes, this is barely noticeable even now that I know it.


What is perplexing is that I'm still wondering who is playing the " 'trons", though.

It's definitely not Fripp, Jakko, Tony of the two end drummers... It doesn't seem to be Collins (for whatever few seconds we see him), so it's obviously the drummer in the centre, but he's never shown doing so, and we don't know if it's a really a 'tron (I suspect it is, given the format/height of the gear). Not evident to get a clear shot in the dead centre with all of those fixed plan cams, though.

Maybe we'll get a chance to "see" this in other tracks

[calyx]

What is perplexing is that I'm still wondering who is playing the " 'trons", though.

It's definitely not Fripp, Jakko, Tony of the two end drummers... It doesn't seem to be Collins (for whatever few seconds we see him), so it's obviously the drummer in the centre, but he's never shown doing so, and we don't know if it's a really a 'tron (I suspect it is, given the format/height of the gear).

As far as I can remember, Bill Rieflin was using a Nord keyboard, probably triggering samples. Definitely not a real Mellotron - who uses real Trons these days apart from the Swedes ? Even Anglagard have been using samples lately...

Fripp only played keyboards on one of the "Scarcity" tracks if I remember correctly.

[Trane]

As far as I can remember, Bill Rieflin was using a Nord keyboard, probably triggering samples. Definitely not a real Mellotron - who uses real Trons these days apart from the Swedes ? Even Anglagard have been using samples lately...

Thanks (I should've thought so too)

I'll be checking this out in the Antwerp show in November (got 7th row seats)

[Cyberian Cat]

I seem to recall from a recent DGM live video that Fripp is using a Mellotron app on an iPad (with a MIDI keyboard). Fripp saying something along the lines of "you don't bring a Mellotron on the road anymore"

[N_Singh]

Yep. The Tron for the iPad . Into a MIDI controller.

By the way, the new Moog app for the iPad is incredible. Who need to spend $5000 when you could spend 30 ?

[JKL2000]

I seem to recall...Fripp saying something along the lines of "you don't bring a Mellotron on the road anymore"

But he brings his mobile espresso setup. His priorities are all wrong.

[Brad to the Bone]

I think that's it for their 40th anniversary release series. Which took seven years to finish.

Just a couple years away now from the 50th anniversary re- release series To begin

In 2019 Fripp will release the 30th anniversary editions of the 1989 "Definitive Edition" remasters.

[Kcrimso]

But he brings his mobile espresso setup. His priorities are all wrong.

It is Tony Levin's mobile espresso setup! Get your Crimson-facts right!

[Mister Triscuits]

Yep. The Tron for the iPad . Into a MIDI controller.

I have the Mellotronics M3000 app, which is pretty great. Used it on "Bellona" on my recent album.

By the way, the new Moog app for the iPad is incredible. Who need to spend $5000 when you could spend 30 ?

Unfortunately I understand it only works on the current version of the iPad or I'd grab it. Moog makes amazing apps; Animoog in particular is just insane.

[JKL2000]

It is Tony Levin's mobile espresso setup! Get your Crimson-facts right!

I figured Fripp got it in the divorce.

[kenticus]

As far as I can remember, Bill Rieflin was using a Nord keyboard, probably triggering samples. Definitely not a real Mellotron - who uses real Trons these days apart from the Swedes ? Even Anglagard have been using samples lately...

Fripp only played keyboards on one of the "Scarcity" tracks if I remember correctly.

It's a nord and he's triggering samples. Fripp uses the iPad app into a midi controller and only really plays it on the intro to talking drum and a bit on one of the scarcity tracks. Virtually all keyboard work is done by Bill rieflin. Did find it odd that there isn't a clear angle of Bill rieflin as on every other member there is clearly a solid primary angle that captures their full kit/instrument set up/etc. I imagine there is and for this song as he's only doing keys there wasn't much to highlight for the guy.