Well played SirOriginally Posted by Spiral
Well played Sir
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
Last week I went to see them here in Barcelona and I have very mixed feelings. I was well aware they were touring a lot of the classic material, but I expected a more improvisational approach, like the 21set Century Schizoid Band had. Instead I got a very carefully orchestrated and choreographed show that did no good to their old numbers.
First of all I did not like how the three drummers tackled the material from their first four albums: no swing, no accents, no groove. Never a big fan of Mastelotto (apart from the Gunn-Mastelotto quartet lineup) I had expected much more from the universally lauded Stacey and Harrison, but they both only displayed lots of technical chops and very little sensibility. The drums tended to overcrowd the lower register all the time, never interacting with the bass lines or solo instruments. For people looking for a heavy-rock punch and it might sound great, but for anyone like me expecting any improvisational flair it just sounded stiff and uninspired.
For most of the time this wall of sound made Tony Levin sound detached, although in all too rare quieter moments he managed to connect with either Mel or Jakko for brief exchanges of notes. Other than that Tom Araya could have filled in and hardly anyone would have noted the difference.I am really curious whether Tony does not get bored playing in this edition of the band.
Collins played with a free-jazz swagger but it did not matter as no band member (but Levin) paid any attention. He could have easily recorded his sax/flute parts before the tour and let Fripp trigger them together with other pre-recorded stuff (like harmony vocals on The Court of the Crimson King).
Jakko was for me the only highlight of the whole spectacle, singing the 70s songs with gusto (and the Belew-era material like Indiscipline less so) and playing most of the guitar parts, letting Fripp deliver only a few statement solos. Apart from that the leader did not seem too engaged in music, happy to preside over the show triggering tapes, playing mellotron samples, showing cues and nodding with approval. The days of intertwined guitar lines that were the trademark of the Fripp/Belew heyday seem to be gone forever.
And above all, it was LOUD. So painfully LOUD that at times the higher frequencies were distorted. It was my first Crimson concert and most probably the last, and I would trade it for seeing a 21st Century Schizoid Band gig in a heartbeat. After returning home I played their version of 21st Century Schizoid Man from "Live in Japan" and I had no doubt who should have been drumming that night.
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 11-29-2016 at 05:42 AM.
Thanks Jaydee for that review! I am glad that I didn't see this live because of the lack of visuals (minimal light show) but the purchase of the video concert was perfect because to me the sound was ok, sure it's louder with 3 drummers, but not to the point of distorsion, and we can hear Levin bass. You should buy the box-set despite your bad experience.
Have Crimson ever had much of a light show? Maybe in the 70s (don't know), but when I saw them on the Discipline tour it was very minimal, which I thought was appropriate. And the ToaPP show was outdoors with daylight for much of the show - again, lights weren't a priority.
Also lacking: costumes and choreography. Plus the guitarists didn't make faces and flip their hair. I'm so glad I didn't see this live.
(I saw it live)
Jay,
you won't believe it but just today Mr. Fripp posted something that seems to be dedicated to you: https://www.dgmlive.com/news/Fripp-opinions
More in detail, your review seems to me to be perfect to display all the things Mr Fripp talks about in the video:
- expectations, of course broken
- referrals to other bands, would they be previous Crimso or 21csb
- lack of comprehension of how much in each show is improvised, in terms of "playing or not playing" and "what to play". This is something you realize by seing them more than once, I can assure you it really is. But you can't get it by seing them just once, I'm sorry
- lack of understanding about "how much is played". Robert plays a lot in this tour, for instance, I bet you couldn't notice that because - and this is perfectly normal - the first time you see the seven-headed beast you get overwhelmed.
Now, I know what I'm saying could look like a default defense for Kc and Mr Fripp, and I know the objection to what I said and to what Mr Fripp said: "Saying that you need three shows of a band to understand it means you only accept critics by aficionados who will probably like the show". That's right, and I can't object it. But let me say I don't get any money or satisfaction in telling you that I bet you'd change your mind about the band if you could see it a couple of times more, with more of an open and empty mind and less expectations. Who - everybody knows - are prisons.
Cheers
Marco
http://www.marcozanetti.it
Triste è l'uomo
che ama le cose
solo quando si allontanano.
(Baolian, libro dei pensieri Baol, I, vv. 1240-1242)
I have not seen this version of King Crimson in person but I can say I really love Radical Action To Unseat The Hold Of Monkey Mind , I have watched the Blu Ray in full and also listened to all 3 cd's and think it is great .
There is really some fantastic playing here and I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed Jakko on the lead vocals , not that I expected him to be bad but he does a really good job covering all of the different formations of this remarkable band.
the dude is too much.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
MrMagoo_6559.jpg
"Oh, Magoo! You've done it again!"
Last edited by Gorillclub; 11-29-2016 at 09:30 AM.
Here is the one problem I have with that - most people only see the band ONCE. Seriously - who has the money and time to go more than that? I dont - I would love to do it - but lets be real here. It sort of makes the issue a big one for those who see a band live and come off thinking it wasnt what they might have expected eh?
Expensive ? it's just 111 euros here in paris salle pleyel .... it's the kind of price for a 80 musicians orchestra..... for exemple a rock band like Garbage is 60 euros in the same venue....
Check them on video in Japan "Deja Vroom" and "Eyes Wide Open"...
If that's indeed his reply to my impressions from the concert (I would not call them a serious critique, just another voice in a large choir of audience reactions), Robert Fripp is certainly right. For a casual spectator like me it is impossible to properly judge a huge undertaking of writing, rehearsing and touring a rather complex music arranged for a seven-piece unit.
My post was not intended as any definitive statement on the current incarnation of King Crimson, just an opinion from a fan who misses certain aspects of the music present in the past editions, oblivious to many ideas, aspects and conditions at play. I should have voiced it in a less harsh tone though and I do feel uneasy about it now.
Next time I will remember that some music forums are frequented by the musicians themselves, the people whom I admire and whose music plays such an important part in my life, and a loose bunch of inconsiderate comments should not be presented in public in such a form. I have always condemned music critics from mainstream media for discrediting the music they do not happen to like/get in a slighting manner and now I have inadvertently become one of them. My apologies to Robert Fripp and the musicians from the KC camp.
PS.
However one thing I am not going to retract. It was too LOUD!
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 11-29-2016 at 04:55 PM.
Sorry you didn't like it as much as many people here did. I will ask this, though: did you read the threads here about this incarnation of live KC? Pretty much every complaint you had, had been mentioned numerous times by other people. Not everybody was as bothered by these things as you appear to have been, but if you had been reading these tour threads, none of it should have come as any surprise.
No, I had not read any reviews from the current tour to keep my mind fresh. I knew that there had been some concerns about three drummers and I had listened to some tracks (off YT) from one of their earlier live CD when it came out, but that was it. I went kind of "unprepared" and most probably that was why I got taken aback. Before writing my ill-advised post I had checked some other reviews though, but most of them seemed quite positive.
I don't think it was ill-advised - it's just an opinion.
Not even a busted guitar!! OR a bulging crotch!!!
Still alive and well...
In any case I could have written it in a more considerate, less careless form.
Then it loses it's entertainment valueIn any case I could have written it in a more considerate, less careless form.( don't worry about it )
Still alive and well...
I don't think you should feel uneasy. It's the internet, we express our opinions with passionate feeling. No worries.My post was not intended as any definitive statement on the current incarnation of King Crimson, just an opinion from a fan who misses certain aspects of the music present in the past editions, oblivious to many ideas, aspects and conditions at play. I should have voiced it in a less harsh tone though and I do feel uneasy about it now.
Ok. You are right (I am the admin of King Crimson Italia on Facebook and Robert Fripp did share many many posts from our group, even though it's in italian, and Jakko posted a few likes here and there) but don't be worried: as far as I could see Robert's video was shot in Monaco 10 days before your post was published here so I don't really think he could ever refer to you when he shot the video :-)
On this one I must say you're not completely wront. It was VERY loud. In Aylesbury I almost put my hands on the ears (was in fourth row), in Milan the volume was more acceptable. I guess the reason is that you can't simply turn the volume below a certain value if you have three drummers without any sort of acoustic isolation right in front of the stage.PS. However one thing I am not going to retract. It was too LOUD!
And... in the end, it's rock and roll, so it's supposed to be LOUD! :-D
Cheers
Marco
http://www.marcozanetti.it
Triste è l'uomo
che ama le cose
solo quando si allontanano.
(Baolian, libro dei pensieri Baol, I, vv. 1240-1242)
Fripp just posted "Hats off to Rufus!"
??? What?
Still alive and well...
My ma!in gripes didn't have to do with the show or the set-list itself, but with the peripherics, mostly
The hall had superb acoustic, and it certainly wasn't too loud (I didn't even think for a second to use the earplugs in my pocket)...
I'd say that the tickets were rather expensive (93.00), the seats too small at shoulder height (thankfully there was an empty seat next to me) and not enough leg room. So in terms of physical comfort, it wasn't satisfying, though the hall was very well ventilated (which always a big plus)
AFA communication with the band & audience, it was zero, and even a negative value, because of the stupid recorded monologue about filming and photo taking prior to the show.
I'd have preferred not have heard Indiscipline (not only because of Jakko's poor Belew imitation), but it's a minor gripe.
Last edited by Trane; 11-30-2016 at 06:19 AM.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
JayDee, that is an honest and insightful review. Beware of the defenders of the Fripp faith who will attack. This version of Crimson is much too sterile and lifeless. The drumming assault detracts greatly from the music. I still hope that Fripp and Belew have one more run together left in them. They make each other better and create magic together.
That's the most respectable way to go in; more in keeping with RF's philosophy than most (maybe the majority of) listeners. Without reading their minds or anything, I suspect the band would appreciate that initial openness even if you weren't blown away by the results.
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