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Thread: The Stranglers: Any freinds or foes?

  1. #101
    Member Piskie's Avatar
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    I spent some time a couple years ago catching up with the Stranglers and agree with the assessment above ^^^^. The albums are all worth checking out though - as are Hugh Cornwell's solo albums; but I cant help thinking his songs would sound so much better with the Stranglers providing the soundscape and the Stranglers albums would be so much better with Hugh' voice and songwriting.
    'I would advise stilts for the quagmires"

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff O'Donoghue View Post
    I would advise caution for "Written in Red" and "Coup de Grace". I like "Written in Red" but it doesn't really sound like any other Stranglers record. That's not a bad thing in my book but I know fans who are not fond of it for that reason. "Coup de Grace" is a very uneven album and I would rank it as my least favourite although "10" is not far behind. I haven't read David Buckley's (long out of print) book "No Mercy: The Authorized and Uncensored Biography of The Stranglers" but I believe that he covers events of the late 90s where it seems that relations between JJ Burnel and guitarist John Ellis deteriorated. I Know I read an interview with JJ where he mentions (without going into any detail) that he felt that Ellis was trying to take over the band. "Coup de Grace" seems to be an album marking a point where JJ was trying to reassert his place in the band. He returns to taking some of the lead vocals (all done by Paul Roberts on the three prior releases) and I think he may have been pushing song ideas that were not fully formed. With Ellis's (and later Roberts') departure and Baz Warne's arrival, the band seem to have achieved a new equilibrium. You can't really go wrong with any of the albums from "Norfolk Coast" on IMHO.
    Thank you for the run down on their albums post 1995 and with the background there it explains the shift in music. Already ordered Written in Red but do not think will have problem with it. The rest of ordered albums is pretty much after the Norfolk Coast. Btw, the latter one seems to be hard to get, other than used ones and at exorbitant prices. This despite so many labels releasing it as shown in Discogs. Hope it will be reissued any time soon. Then quite an awful choice of the cover for the Giants album (even without the bodies hanging there), even if it goes in hand with their name. Anyway, I think I will start working on these backwards starting with the Dark Matters.
    "Confusion Will Be My Epitaph"

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Piskie View Post
    I spent some time a couple years ago catching up with the Stranglers and agree with the assessment above ^^^^. The albums are all worth checking out though - as are Hugh Cornwell's solo albums; but I cant help thinking his songs would sound so much better with the Stranglers providing the soundscape and the Stranglers albums would be so much better with Hugh' voice and songwriting.
    Already got me some later albums from Stranglers, including Dark Matters, and just ordered Hugh Cornwell's last solo album Monster, so wondering how they will compare. Some reviewers on Amazon rate Cornwell's albums way above the band ones.
    "Confusion Will Be My Epitaph"

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by PCMusic View Post
    Already got me some later albums from Stranglers, including Dark Matters, and just ordered Hugh Cornwell's last solo album Monster, so wondering how they will compare. Some reviewers on Amazon rate Cornwell's albums way above the band ones.
    Hi again PCMusic. Firstly - I'm happy to have been of some assistance with info regarding past Stranglers releases. Secondly - regarding Hugh's solo albums. I find that I'm not a fan of what I have heard of the releases prior to "Hooverdam". I sort of expected this to be the case as I feel that Hugh was the source of somewhat of a decline in the quality of Stranglers music in the late 80s, culminating in 1990's "10" - which was my least favourite Stranglers album until "Coup de Grace" came out. I feel that Hugh's writing became more conventional and less quirky and this carried over to his solo career. "Hooverdam" seems to mark a change in Hugh's music making. He initially made the album downloadable for free and, having learned that the songs were performed by a three-piece - guitar, bass, drums, I was intrigued and gave it a listen. I found that Hugh's songwriting was now more in The Stranglers vein and I could imagine the tracks - rearranged - appearing on a Stranglers album. The use of a loud prominent bass sound a la JJ Burnel was probably a selling point but equally intriguing was the absence of keyboards. I've been on board with Hugh's music ever since, picking up "Totem and Taboo" and "Monster" and having caught him in concert once here in Australia in 2011. I've also got two of his live albums "New Songs For King Kong" and "Live At The Vera". They're quite interesting because they consist of two sets - one is a full solo album performance and the other is a full Stranglers album performance. "King Kong" is "Hooverdam"/"Rattus Norvegicus" and "Vera" is "Totem And Taboo"/"No More Heroes". It's hard to imagine those two Stranglers albums being performed without keyboards but that's exactly what Hugh does, retaining the three-piece set-up of his more recent solo albums. He pretty much pulls it off and I find that I really enjoy seeing how the band works its way through these songs. There's some quite psychedelic guitar at times and indeed this lean line-up has highlighted for me just how distinctive and innovative Hugh's playing is. If you decide to try some of Hugh's pre "Hooverdam" releases then please let us know what you think.

    Geoff
    "One should never magnify the harsh light of reality with the mirror of prose onto the delicate wings of fantasy's butterfly"
    Thumpermonkey - How I Wrote The French Lieutenant's Woman

    "I'm content to listen to what I like and keep my useless negative opinions about what I don't like to myself -- because no one is interested in hearing those anyway, and it contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation."
    aith01

  5. #105
    Member Piskie's Avatar
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    ^^^ I agree that the earlier Hugh Cornwell solo albums are disappointing - but there is some good stuff on the later ones.
    'I would advise stilts for the quagmires"

  6. #106
    Dark Waters is really growing on me. "Water," "Breathe" and "No Man's Land" are great songs. Norfolk Coast has been my favorite from the Baz era albums (I guess you could say I'm cheating a bit since he isn't the primary vocalist as he would be on the next two, now three albums). I think Dark Waters is probably better.

    I'm surprised, too, at how much I like "And If You Should See Dave . . . " I sort of dismissed it when it was released as a single; it just seemed too obvious. But it really works. I quite like the lyric "This is where your solo would go" and the band just plays. Perfect.

    The band will go out on tour eventually (can't remember when, though I guess I could look it up), and I'm sure a live album will be issued. It'll be good to hear how these new tunes work live.

    Interesting discussion about the not-so classic Stranglers' albums. 10 and Coupe De Grace are definitely on the bottom of the pile for me, but both have good tunes and are worth owning. I still probably rate Monster beneath both of them, though. I should probably look for some of Cornwell's other solo albums.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  7. #107
    ^ I have to say also that the latest Stranglers record is surprisingly good. Fine melodies and arrangements, and there's even that scent of "satirical" aggression which marked their first decade. Intriguing.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #108
    Based on the songs released prior to the album release I thought "Dark Matters" would be a solid but perhaps unremakable Stranglers album. I've had about 4 or 5 listens now and I enjoy it more and more each time I hear it. It's got a cohesiveness that was lacking in "Giants" and I find that the songwriting is uniformly good. Like others have stated I thought "And If You See Dave" was a little too obvious when I first heard it but in the context of the album's flow it works really well and the absence of keyboards is quite poignant.
    My favourite track is "White Stallion" - a well constructed song but the intentionally over-the-top production takes it to a new level.
    The Stranglers have done a few covers in the past - "Walk On By", "All Day And All Of The Night", "96 Tears", "Summer In The City" - and I see that "This Song" is a cover of a track by The Disciples Of Spess. The track is credited to the Spess's Matthew Seamarks and The Stranglers but, having heard the original version, I can't really see what The Stranglers have added to it. See "This Song Will Get Me Over You" in the below playlist.
    "One should never magnify the harsh light of reality with the mirror of prose onto the delicate wings of fantasy's butterfly"
    Thumpermonkey - How I Wrote The French Lieutenant's Woman

    "I'm content to listen to what I like and keep my useless negative opinions about what I don't like to myself -- because no one is interested in hearing those anyway, and it contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation."
    aith01

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff O'Donoghue View Post
    Hi again PCMusic. Firstly - I'm happy to have been of some assistance with info regarding past Stranglers releases. Secondly - regarding Hugh's solo albums. I find that I'm not a fan of what I have heard of the releases prior to "Hooverdam". I sort of expected this to be the case as I feel that Hugh was the source of somewhat of a decline in the quality of Stranglers music in the late 80s, culminating in 1990's "10" - which was my least favourite Stranglers album until "Coup de Grace" came out. I feel that Hugh's writing became more conventional and less quirky and this carried over to his solo career. "Hooverdam" seems to mark a change in Hugh's music making. He initially made the album downloadable for free and, having learned that the songs were performed by a three-piece - guitar, bass, drums, I was intrigued and gave it a listen. I found that Hugh's songwriting was now more in The Stranglers vein and I could imagine the tracks - rearranged - appearing on a Stranglers album. The use of a loud prominent bass sound a la JJ Burnel was probably a selling point but equally intriguing was the absence of keyboards. I've been on board with Hugh's music ever since, picking up "Totem and Taboo" and "Monster" and having caught him in concert once here in Australia in 2011. I've also got two of his live albums "New Songs For King Kong" and "Live At The Vera". They're quite interesting because they consist of two sets - one is a full solo album performance and the other is a full Stranglers album performance. "King Kong" is "Hooverdam"/"Rattus Norvegicus" and "Vera" is "Totem And Taboo"/"No More Heroes". It's hard to imagine those two Stranglers albums being performed without keyboards but that's exactly what Hugh does, retaining the three-piece set-up of his more recent solo albums. He pretty much pulls it off and I find that I really enjoy seeing how the band works its way through these songs. There's some quite psychedelic guitar at times and indeed this lean line-up has highlighted for me just how distinctive and innovative Hugh's playing is. If you decide to try some of Hugh's pre "Hooverdam" releases then please let us know what you think.

    Geoff
    Thanks again Geoff, this time for your take on Hugh's albums. I will certainly take your lead there. Seems, like for Stranglers, I will start from the end. Which in a way I have already done with the order of his last album. So I am on the right track there
    "Confusion Will Be My Epitaph"

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I have to say also that the latest Stranglers record is surprisingly good. Fine melodies and arrangements, and there's even that scent of "satirical" aggression which marked their first decade. Intriguing.
    I’m beginning to believe this is one of the best albums by the band.

    I’m worried about nostalgia, too.

    These two feelings compete.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  11. #111
    Member Piskie's Avatar
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    Gave it another spin this evening. It definitely has a touch of class.
    'I would advise stilts for the quagmires"

  12. #112
    Listening today to Aural Sculpture and wow! This is some inspired stuff, IMO. I had to repeat "Ice Queen" about a half-dozen times. The way that tune develops and reveals some new layers as it goes on is just so cool.

    These guys are great!
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I have to say also that the latest Stranglers record is surprisingly good. Fine melodies and arrangements, and there's even that scent of "satirical" aggression which marked their first decade. Intriguing.
    I ordered Dark Matters on vinyl after hearing a few of the songs from it. A surprisingly good late-career set.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Listening today to Aural Sculpture and wow! This is some inspired stuff, IMO. I had to repeat "Ice Queen" about a half-dozen times. The way that tune develops and reveals some new layers as it goes on is just so cool.

    These guys are great!
    “Ice Queen” definitely has a repeatable, endlessly hummable quality to it. That whole album has such an icy, 80s quality to it. I don’t want that kind of digital polish all the time, but I’m glad this album has it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I ordered Dark Matters on vinyl after hearing a few of the songs from it. A surprisingly good late-career set.
    A really wonderful album. I have a lot of favorites and highlights across all the eras, but this one seems special. A proper send-off (if it is).
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    “Ice Queen” definitely has a repeatable, endlessly hummable quality to it. That whole album has such an icy, 80s quality to it. I don’t want that kind of digital polish all the time, but I’m glad this album has it.
    Yes, agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    A really wonderful album. I have a lot of favorites and highlights across all the eras, but this one seems special. A proper send-off (if it is).
    Agreed again!


    Also ordered a used vinyl copy of Black and White and Raven, and I'm currently looking for others on the secondhand marketplace. These guys have hooked me.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  16. #116
    Member adap2it's Avatar
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    Also ordered a used vinyl copy of Black and White and Raven, and I'm currently looking for others on the secondhand marketplace. These guys have hooked me.[/QUOTE]

    I am envious of anyone discovering and getting hooked on music that was possibly earlier overlooked...Stranglers were one of the main reasons that I still listened to music after punk came along.
    Dave Sr.

    I prefer Nature to Human Nature

  17. #117
    I hope you haven't ordered Feline yet. A new 40th anniversary edition is on its way:
    https://stranglers.tmstor.es/product/107855

    I'm pretty sure there's nothing new here, but the packaging looks nice, and I'm sure the vinyl-lovers will want it. I might pick it up just to have all these tunes collected in one edition (rather than spread out across a few different comps).
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    I hope you haven't ordered Feline yet. A new 40th anniversary edition is on its way:
    https://stranglers.tmstor.es/product/107855

    I'm pretty sure there's nothing new here, but the packaging looks nice, and I'm sure the vinyl-lovers will want it. I might pick it up just to have all these tunes collected in one edition (rather than spread out across a few different comps).
    I haven't -- but now I will! Thank you for the heads up! That red and pink vinyl looks pretty too.

    Where does Feline rate for you, compared to the others?
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  19. #119
    It’s on the very edge of their prime. They’ve moved well into the pop direction that was hinted at with La Folie. I think it’s the first Stranglers album with entirely digital drums.

    A notch better than Aural Sculpture and quite a bit better than what the band did until after Hugh left.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    It’s on the very edge of their prime. They’ve moved well into the pop direction that was hinted at with La Folie. I think it’s the first Stranglers album with entirely digital drums.

    A notch better than Aural Sculpture and quite a bit better than what the band did until after Hugh left.
    Cool beans, man. Thanks. I like most of Aural Sculpture quite well, so that sounds good to me.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  21. #121
    Listened to Feline this morning and was surprised to hear "Golden Brown." For whatever reason, I thought it was on another album (La Folie, maybe? Who knows!). Its presence alone makes the album better.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  22. #122
    (not his real name) no.nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post


    Also ordered a used vinyl copy of Black and White and Raven, and I'm currently looking for others on the secondhand marketplace. These guys have hooked me.
    I see this post was from two weeks ago, so maybe you have these by now. But I wanted to jump in and repeat something I said long ago on the thread: I feel these are two of their three peak albums, with The Gospel According to the Meninblack being the third. These three are deeply creative.


    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    They’ve moved well into the pop direction that was hinted at with La Folie. I think it’s the first Stranglers album with entirely digital drums.
    I'm not a fan of Feline. I think the drop in quality from La Folie to Feline is one of the most acute I've ever encountered from one band's album to another and they lost me with this one. Because I loved their earlier albums so much, I gave Aural Sculpture a cautious chance when it came out, but sadly, it didn't win be back. I've heard bits and pieces from various albums since, and I've been consistently disappointed. It's their UA/EMI output for me.

    Oh, one more thing - Feline is the one with the electronic drums.


    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Listened to Feline this morning and was surprised to hear "Golden Brown." For whatever reason, I thought it was on another album (La Folie, maybe? Who knows!). Its presence alone makes the album better.
    That's strange... "Golden Brown" IS from La Folie.
    "I tah dah nur!" - Ike

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by no.nine View Post
    I see this post was from two weeks ago, so maybe you have these by now. But I wanted to jump in and repeat something I said long ago on the thread: I feel these are two of their three peak albums, with The Gospel According to the Meninblack being the third. These three are deeply creative.
    I really like Black and White -- I've listened to it a ton! Raven I've spent less time with, but I'm going to get better acquainted as I liked it from my first couple listens.

    Haven't heard The Gospel According to the Meninblack yet, but it's on my list as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by no.nine View Post
    I'm not a fan of Feline. I think the drop in quality from La Folie to Feline is one of the most acute I've ever encountered from one band's album to another and they lost me with this one. Because I loved their earlier albums so much, I gave Aural Sculpture a cautious chance when it came out, but sadly, it didn't win be back. I've heard bits and pieces from various albums since, and I've been consistently disappointed. It's their UA/EMI output for me.
    Have you heard Dark Matters? I just gave the vinyl a spin a couple nights ago and I think it's really good.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  24. #124
    (not his real name) no.nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Have you heard Dark Matters?
    No, the last one that I remember spot checking (via Youtube) was Giants from 2012, and nothing persuaded me to give it a closer listen. I also remember very much disliking the modern production style; too crisp and punchy for Stranglers music IMO. So that didn't help, and I've had no further desire to investigate anything else since. I know that's more on me than them, but that's OK. The debut through La Folie is a classic run of albums and I still love them and play them regularly.
    "I tah dah nur!" - Ike

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by no.nine View Post
    I see this post was from two weeks ago, so maybe you have these by now. But I wanted to jump in and repeat something I said long ago on the thread: I feel these are two of their three peak albums, with The Gospel According to the Meninblack being the third. These three are deeply creative.




    I'm not a fan of Feline. I think the drop in quality from La Folie to Feline is one of the most acute I've ever encountered from one band's album to another and they lost me with this one. Because I [[/I]loved their earlier albums so much, I gave Aural Sculpture a cautious chance when it came out, but sadly, it didn't win be back. I've heard bits and pieces from various albums since, and I've been consistently disappointed. It's their UA/EMI output for me.
    Perhaps a benefit of experiencing the entire band’s output at once. I don’t think I had a proper sequence and just grabbed what I could when I could. I can acknowledge that everything after La Folie is not as good, but I didn’t live with the great albums before the not-as-great albums came out.

    Oh, one more thing - Feline is the one with the electronic drums.
    Sloppy sentence construction. I do know that but …

    That's strange... "Golden Brown" IS from La Folie.
    I knew that! It got mixed in somehow on my Feline file. Again, who knows???
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

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