SPOTIFY - Again

[JJ88]

It isn't *your* collection. You're renting access to it for $9.99 a month. It isn't yours and you have zero claim over it if it changes. You pay for its use monthly and you can leave at any time (and you don't get to take it with you).

You may think I am being pedantic, but I am not. I am stating the actual fact of what they are and what your interaction / rights with them is.

Indeed. Of course, when you bought a CD/record, you didn't have to worry about the vagaries of licensing- unless the CD develops disc rot or something (not common), it's yours to play forever.

Just as an example, I read somewhere about My Bloody Valentine pulling their music from at least some streaming sites. I'm sticking with my CDs, thanks.

[Steve F.]

Just as an example, I read somewhere about My Bloody Valentine pulling their music from at least some streaming sites. I'm sticking with my CDs, thanks.

Streaming isn't going anywhere, but artists doing streaming and not being happy with it and pulling their material isn't going anywhere either.

Remember - Cuneiform did streaming for over a year, until I got disgusted by it and pulled it (with a very few exceptions)

[JKL2000]

It isn't *your* collection. You're renting access to it for $9.99 a month. It isn't yours and you have zero claim over it if it changes. You pay for its use monthly and you can leave at any time (and you don't get to take it with you).

You may think I am being pedantic, but I am not. I am stating the actual fact of what they are and what your interaction / rights with them is.

My interaction isn't typical. I use it a vast majority of the time to listen to music I've bought. The CD is somewhere in my attic or another room crammed with boxes. Also to listen to stuff I've purchased on Bandcamp but which is also on Spotify.

Also, what you say above here applies to Bandcamp too. People can just pay the monthly fee and not buy anything but stream most of what's on there.

[Steve F.]

My interaction isn't typical. I use it a vast majority of the time to listen to music I've bought. The CD is somewhere in my attic or another room crammed with boxes. Also to listen to stuff I've purchased on Bandcamp but which is also on Spotify.

Spotify doesn't know and doesn't care if you own it or not.
You can only stream what they have available to you to stream at the time you want to stream it. It comes from their cloud, not your collection. It doesn't matter if you own it or not.

Also, what you say above here applies to Bandcamp too. People can just pay the monthly fee and not buy anything but stream most of what's on there.

What you are talking about?
There is no monthly fee to listen on BandCamp. The artists decide how much and how often you can listen before it asks for money.

[JKL2000]

Housekeeping: I already knew all of the above, Steve. Not sure though why I mistakenly mentioned a monthly fee for Bandcamp. RE having a collection of music on Spotify or not: well, I know I don’t own music on Spotify, but I have collected a bunch of links to albums on Spotify, and they’re collected in my Spotify account. My point still holds: if Spotify was to go belly up, my collection of links would be gone.

I was just reading another article about why artists make so little money from Spotify, which mentioned that Spotify pays a lot of money to labels with music on Spotify. Some artists have bad contracts with their labels and have to pay back the labels for certain expenses.

So what about independent artists? Do you they get paid rates close to the major labels?

[Steve F.]

^^^^^

I don’t have the time to answer your question fully.

The three major labels are paid a guaranteed minimum daily, EVEN IF not a single one of their tracks is played.

no one other than these 3 have anything like that in place.

More information

https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/19/8...otify-contract

https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/22/sp...rketing-tools/

[JKL2000]

^^^

Thanks, Steve. That blows! Do you think Spotify is basically owned by the three major labels, or is in their pockets so to speak?

If I was Biden I’d appoint a Musician’s Rights czar on day 1 (after saving the ACA!)!

[bondegezou]

Do you think Spotify is basically owned by the three major labels, or is in their pockets so to speak?

Effectively. What this means is that they make money from Spotify in such a way that they don't have to pass it on to the artists.

Henry

[Steve F.]

^^^

Thanks, Steve. That blows! Do you think Spotify is basically owned by the three major labels

No, they own a tiny fraction of it, BUT

Effectively. What this means is that they make money from Spotify in such a way that they don't have to pass it on to the artists.

TRUE and a GUARANTEED amount of money from Spotify (more than 1 million a day, was always my understanding) much of which does not have to be passed on to the artists.

[Mascodagama]

TRUE and a GUARANTEED amount of money from Spotify (more than 1 million a day, was always my understanding) much of which does not have to be passed on to the artists.

The technology evolves but [Donald Fagen]some things will never change[/Donald Fagen] - the biz still suxx.

I rarely buy anything that's on a major label anyway (and gave up using Spotify years ago, except very occasionally to quickly check something out if I can't find it anywhere else).

[JKL2000]

It seems like it’s already become a liability for an album to not be accessible by streaming from somewhere.
Just looked for the new Lifesigns album and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to listen to it aside from buying a CD or a FLAC download. Not a problem for everyone, but unusual for these times. Maybe it’s coming to Spotify or Bandcamp soon.
Actually, I haven’t checked Apple or Amazon, but I never buy music there aside from CDs from Amazon.

Seems like there’s a market for an app like MyMovies, which allows you to access movie purchases from several different sources through the app. That would make a huge difference.

[Valen]

It seems like it’s already become a liability for an album to not be accessible by streaming from somewhere.
Just looked for the new Lifesigns album and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to listen to it aside from buying a CD or a FLAC download. Not a problem for everyone, but unusual for these times. Maybe it’s coming to Spotify or Bandcamp soon.
.

Afraid not. John Young has been very vocal in his condemnation of streaming. It's the CD or the download, and that's it.

And the cd isn't exactly competitively priced - when other bands are asking £15-16, JY is asking for £20 plus postage. No bonus tracks or out-takes etc - just 50 minutes of music.

I was on their FB group for a while, and when the pricing was announced, I casually suggested that at that price they'd struggle to sell copies beyond the fan base, given the competition from so many other bands. I ended up having to leave the group for all the abuse heaped on me for daring to devalue the price of artistry and music.....

So that was one less sale they could count on.

[Splicer]

I was on their FB group for a while, and when the pricing was announced, I casually suggested that at that price they'd struggle to sell copies beyond the fan base, given the competition from so many other bands. I ended up having to leave the group for all the abuse heaped on me for daring to devalue the price of artistry and music.....

So that was one less sale they could count on.

As long as they're fine with that result then they'll have to be satisfied gaining any new fans. I'm not saying that's wrong or right - just what will end up happening.

[Poisoned Youth]

It seems like it’s already become a liability for an album to not be accessible by streaming from somewhere.
Just looked for the new Lifesigns album and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to listen to it aside from buying a CD or a FLAC download. Not a problem for everyone, but unusual for these times. Maybe it’s coming to Spotify or Bandcamp soon.

There are certain artists and labels whose focus is not on the format, but that you must pay to access it in any form. It's possible if an artist/label could charge Bandcamp members a small amount to stream it on Bandcamp, they would make it available.

But it's like VOD for them. You don't get to watch the movie first, you have to pay for it. Otherwise what's the point?

Afraid not. John Young has been very vocal in his condemnation of streaming. It's the CD or the download, and that's it.

And the cd isn't exactly competitively priced - when other bands are asking £15-16, JY is asking for £20 plus postage. No bonus tracks or out-takes etc - just 50 minutes of music.

I was on their FB group for a while, and when the pricing was announced, I casually suggested that at that price they'd struggle to sell copies beyond the fan base, given the competition from so many other bands. I ended up having to leave the group for all the abuse heaped on me for daring to devalue the price of artistry and music.....

So that was one less sale they could count on.

I generally avoid fan forums because of experiences like yours.

John is fortunate he has the fans he does have, and maybe he's done the numbers and feels justified if he can sell 1,000 units. That's his business model. I hope it works out for him.

But to both your points, it's less likely he will sell much beyond his base - and maybe turn off some who don't value the music at that price OR have gotten used to streaming it first before deciding to make a purchase.

I'd suggest in this day and age, it's less downloading/streaming hurting artists and more about the struggle for attention. I would hope that services like Spotify would pay more per stream for artists - or have a sliding scale that pays more to new artists to attract them. But, in the end, there is just so much music out there that Lifesigns and others like it will just get lost in plain sight.

[JKL2000]

I noticed just yesterday they added functionality to Spotify so you can Cast the stream to a network device! Nice. (Look in the top, right corner of the screen.) This could already be done just by a typical Bluetooth connection, but I guess this will make it a bit easier/more intuitive for some people. Just good to see making enhancements, because Spotify's player could definitely use some work.

[Splicer]

I noticed just yesterday they added functionality to Spotify so you can Cast the stream to a network device! Nice. (Look in the top, right corner of the screen.) This could already be done just by a typical Bluetooth connection, but I guess this will make it a bit easier/more intuitive for some people. Just good to see making enhancements, because Spotify's player could definitely use some work.

Spotify definitely needs to work on having an advanced search function.

[JKL2000]

Oops, what was I thinking?! It’s Bandcamp that added this, not Spotify! Never mind - wrong thread!

[JKL2000]

Fairly often Spotify will recommend these lame club remixes of Prog songs. Today there’s a remix (if you can call it that) of Owner of a Lonely Heart by Urbanphoenix! Because these show up with two creators, Urbanphoenix and Yes, Spotify recommends them! Does anyone else get these in their Spotify “feed?”

[JKL2000]

Spotify just pretends to have algorithms, I think. At least, all it seems to consider is the most broad genre of music when making suggestions. I was just looking at my Spotify Homepage this evening, and one of the "entries" is "Similar to Eloy." Here are some of the albums it suggested: U.K.'s debut, Hatfield & The North - s/t, Peter Hammill - In Camera (!), and some more outlandish, random prog albums. There are one or two that are SORT of close (Die Grobschnitt Story, Camel - Nude). But come on! Why even try?

[Just Eric]

It seems like it’s already become a liability for an album to not be accessible by streaming from somewhere.
Just looked for the new Lifesigns album and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to listen to it aside from buying a CD or a FLAC download. Not a problem for everyone, but unusual for these times. Maybe it’s coming to Spotify or Bandcamp soon.

I agree and use streaming (Spotify and Bandcamp exclusively) to sample before buying. If I like what I hear it goes on the buy list and eventually get's purchased. If I like what I hear on Bandcamp it is usually purchased then and there.

On Spotify I have two playlists for the sample/buy process, one named All Samples and then on named Favorites (where good samples go to be added to the buy list) I also have curated playlists I've put together for relatively obscure genres, primarily Metal - Experimental and Avant-Garde, in hopes that other like minded consumers will find music they like and support the scene.

[Mister Triscuits]

Hoping to get into three figures in Spotify payments this year. I'm a third of the way there: so far I'm up to 33 cents.

[JKL2000]

They know me so well!

5B835AAC-CE36-40F6-9616-1B53DB879B91.jpg

[Frumious B]

How does the pay rate from Spotify etc. differ for independent artists who self release their music vs. artists signed to labels?

[JKL2000]

Does Spotify look different today from yesterday, for those who use the iPhone app?

[boilk]

Does Spotify look different today from yesterday, for those who use the iPhone app?

I own neither a cell phone, nor have ever used Spotify, so am absolutely useless to you, on this matter!

Neil