Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy - noob review

[JJ88]

Keith Richards has always had fairly conservative tastes, in that he stuck with what he knew (which is his prerogative). Mick Jagger tends to go for what is 'trendy' at the time. They meet somewhere in the middle.

As an aside, I played disc 1 of the 2007 version of The Song Remains The Same and thoroughly enjoyed it. 'The Rain Song' is superior to the studio version, IMHO. I think this newer version has more of a sense of occasion than the original album did. But I think this is the point where Plant's vocals showed signs of strain, he pretty much avoids high notes altogether.

[Trane]

the 2 things i hated about the movie were the dream sequences & Peter Grant's rantings.
i would have rather see/hear the band play live throughout and Grant stay in his hotel room and count his money.

Well, I still think the TSRTS is the ultimate Zep footage, because it builds the myth, partly because of these dream sequences.... though TBH, I don't like the fact that Grant gets his sequence too. nd indeed, the Grant rantings are interesting once or twice, but don't really fit the movie... If i was Page remastering the film, I'd cut from the film and add these rants as bonus

For me, the dream sequences were "of their time," I guess. Some of it was interesting, but some of it was truly awful.

And I really believe that aside from Bonham, the band had a true lack of humility which continues to this day. They overcompensated on a lot of things both musically and commercially. They had to show the "money" sequence in the film because it was all part of the "We're so big it's out of control" image. But they were one of the very biggest bands of the seventies. And that was obvious. Why have their manager chewing out guys over bootleg posters appear in a film? "Exploiting Led Zeppelin." It comes off as so freaking hard to relate to for any working class person. I'm not saying you "allow" that stuff, but putting that in a film? As if this is such a tough situation to be selling out MSG and dealing with all of this "exploitation?"

mmmhhh!!!... If memory serves only Bonham doesn't have a sword & sorcery dream sequence and he chose is gentleman farmer fntasy, but also bragging about his poney during it.

My thoughts exactly.
"The Crunge" is not disco...it's an homage to James Brown.

And James never sued them??

[100423]

And James never sued them??

Why would he want to take credit for that sonic dung heap?

[ThomasKDye]

Wow. I had no idea anyone thought otherwise.

I said "disco" at the beginning. I was being a bit flip. Of course, disco didn't really exist in the mainstream in 1973.

[JeffCarney]

Keith Richards has always had fairly conservative tastes, in that he stuck with what he knew (which is his prerogative). Mick Jagger tends to go for what is 'trendy' at the time. They meet somewhere in the middle.

IMO, you're absolutely tapping into what's going on with Richards. And since his comments on Zep and the Sabs have been mentioned, I'll throw in my 2c.

I suspect that he has a very narrow viewpoint of how he wants "rock 'n' roll" to outlined and historically traced. Black Sabbath absolutely do not fit into his little bag of how this history exists. He's absolutely wrong, of course. And it transcends whether one adores Sabbath, is lukewarm on them or even can't stand them. That sound is traced to Tony Iommi, who was playing with The Rockin' Chevrolets in 1963, then developed his musical ideologies via similar paths as the Stones. But Iommi took a path of innovation and moved rock music away from its inherent clichés. Too much innovation for Keith, apparently. And for him to dismiss what that band meant to legions of lower working class kids who wanted rock music to also lyrically depict the realities of the world that they saw as a "joke?" Ridiculous. Clearly Jagger is at least objective enough to see it differently, as Sabbath were portrayed as a real statement in the show Vinyl. Probably helps that the guy in the lead role of that show is a Sabbath fan, I don't know ...

Then there's Zeppelin. I think Richards is a little more "willing" to see their rock 'n' roll roots, but he doesn't like Plant and doesn't like Bonham's drumming. Fine. But he can't let it go. He was still discussing this shit in a recent interview in Rolling Stone and just cutting Plant to shreds. The writer was right there with him, and they were speaking almost as if it is somehow quantifiable fact that Robert Plant wasn't a great frontman. Richards wants rock 'n' roll to trace from Chuck Berry and Little Richard through to the Rolling Stones as the ultimate. And of course blues is perfectly acceptable to him if its Muddy Waters, but if it's Led Zeppelin playing blues, I suspect he's out.

As an aside, I played disc 1 of the 2007 version of The Song Remains The Same and thoroughly enjoyed it. 'The Rain Song' is superior to the studio version, IMHO. I think this newer version has more of a sense of occasion than the original album did. But I think this is the point where Plant's vocals showed signs of strain, he pretty much avoids high notes altogether.

Well, I've always loved the live version and didn't need to wait until 2007 for a reissue to get there. But I view it as a different approach than the studio. I rate both very highly and appreciate each for what it represents. I do think the acoustic parts work just fine on electric (unlike "Over The Hills and Far Away"), and the powerful ending of the live version is breathtaking. One of my favorite Zep moments, even if I think TSRTS as a live album is a bit "tired" in spots and somehow doesn't quite capture the "magic." Although I wouldn't say it is a bad representation of them as a live act. There are far worse performances by them from 1973 than what's on that album even though I'm well aware that Page did his share of editing.

[JJ88]

Bear in mind I wasn't born when these albums came out!

The 2007 one is different to the original, with more songs and some different versions...the sleeve should have made it clearer, but the original at least is still in print as well. Both are essential for fans.

The writer was right there with him, and they were speaking almost as if it is somehow quantifiable fact that Robert Plant wasn't a great frontman.

The sycophantic crawling of that interviewer made me wince. What happened to objectivity? See also the Beatles comments, which attracted rather more attention.

It's the idea that Richards is seen as some kind of Wise Sage Of Rock N Roll which I can't really believe.

[at least 100 dead]

I think TSRTS as a live album is a bit "tired" in spots and somehow doesn't quite capture the "magic." Although I wouldn't say it is a bad representation of them as a live act.

Yup. Never really connected with the original TSRTS, except for “No Quarter”. They sound lackluster and uninspired…end of the tour syndrome, I guess. Oddly enough, the 2007 remaster sounds much fresher & a lot punchier, even though it was compiled from the same cache of performances. A huge improvement IMO (regardless of the somewhat unfortunate “No Quarter” edit).

[at least 100 dead]

Why would he want to take credit for that sonic dung heap?

Ha! I can see why you’d call it that, but I dig it for the non-trivial Bonham & JPJ groove.

[Trane]

Why would he want to take credit for that sonic dung heap?

Nope, what I meant is if that dung heap is a homage to moi, I'd take it as an insult, I'd go to court and sue them!!

[Trane]

Yup. Never really connected with the original TSRTS, except for “No Quarter”. They sound lackluster and uninspired…end of the tour syndrome, I guess. Oddly enough, the 2007 remaster sounds much fresher & a lot punchier, even though it was compiled from the same cache of performances. A huge improvement IMO (regardless of the somewhat unfortunate “No Quarter” edit).

Well, the only thing we had at home in the 70's was the double vinyl , so we made with that... The only live Zep testimony we had (outside some really crappy bootlegs), and VHS or DVDs were not available

I kind of disagree, though... Yes sure nowadays with all the live Zep archives, we can compare with TSRTS, but back then, probably no-one noticed
well I didn't anyways, and the buddies didn't either...We all marvelled at D&C and NQ and STH and ....

[JJ88]

'Dazed And Confused' and 'Moby Dick' are undoubtedly deeply tedious. Other than that I think The Song Remains The Same is quite a strong live album, but of course those are a significant amount of it. This is why I prefer the 2007 one- it adds quite a few songs and as such, stops it being top heavy with those lengthy, boring tracks. The other drawback with TSRTS was that by the time it was released, it was already outdated- they'd put out two further studio albums since it was recorded.

There aren't that many other live albums from their peak even now...basically it's the BBC Sessions, How The West Was Won, and that live show with the remaster of the first album, that's it. There's the 2003 DVD, a shame that there was no audio release of that because it encompassed some of their post-1973 work- none of the live albums do that.

[at least 100 dead]

'Dazed And Confused' and 'Moby Dick' are undoubtedly deeply tedious.

Hardcore Bonham fanboy here, but those 20 min drum solos *are* insufferable. The man is best heard when accompanying the band, what with his incredible sense of time and tasty choice of notes. There may a million drummers out there now with superior technique, but he had a feel and sound that was truly one of a kind.

[JJ88]

Playing the 2nd disc again, 'Dazed And Confused' wasn't quite as tortuous (although I far prefer the tighter early versions than these sprawling later ones) as I remember, but 'Moby Dick' was. Bonham is a magnificent rock drummer, with an instantly recognisable sound, but this is an endurance test.

[Watanabe]

Bonham was a good player going way beyond what he had the technique for in those improvs...i always thought it showed a remarkable lack of musical self-awareness.20-30 minutes ffs.

On the early solos he did, he'd often start off with a kind of rock drummer paying tribute to Max Roach\Joe Morello thing, with some relatively nimble triplet and paradiddle\single stroke based fills over a slow waltz feel and was surprisingly good at it for a player that never really showed much jazz influence in his ensemble playing.

If he'd kept things short and focused on that side of his soloing he would have been capable of producing a nice solo percussive statement.

Instead he'd quickly run out of ideas, but resolutely drive on and resort to mostly a lengthy barrage of "dugga-dugga-dugga" 16th note snare-tom-bass triplet combinations, with all finesse quickly flying out the window.Then by 72\73 he seemed to think he had become a master of the snare and would batter on for the first 15 minutes trying to play like a hard rock Buddy Rich with constant closed singles on the snare and accenting around the kit...something he really didn't have the rudimental finesse for and just sounded like a deep furrow of sound being relentlessly ploughed without musicality.

[Koreabruce]

I wouldn't doubt that over imbibing of substances may have had something to do with those long, long excursions. According to Mick Wall's book When Giants Walked the Earth, there was a fair bit of cocaine use among various members of the road crew & band (not at all unusual for bands in the '70's, of course). Bonham was especially fond of it along with his usual copious amounts of booze. By '77, Bonham had been keeping pouch next to his drum kit so he could reach in and pinch a little throughout the show. Afterwards, when the crew would tear down the drum kit, they'd carefully dust off each drum head and put the remnants in a bag to share amongst themselves.

[at least 100 dead]

IAfterwards, when the crew would tear down the drum kit, they'd carefully dust off each drum head and put the remnants in a bag to share amongst themselves.

Trickle-down economy - it really does work!

[JJ88]

I watched the 2003 DVD with parts of the Knebworth show on it yesterday and Page/Bonham didn't look great, that's for sure. But goodness, that version of 'Achilles' Last Stand' is astonishing...I gather Knebworth has a mixed reputation but they delivered on that one in spades.

[JeffCarney]

I watched the 2003 DVD with parts of the Knebworth show on it yesterday and Page/Bonham didn't look great, that's for sure. But goodness, that version of 'Achilles' Last Stand' is astonishing...I gather Knebworth has a mixed reputation but they delivered on that one in spades.

The problem with the official DVD version of "Achilles" at Knebworth is the overdubbing for me. Hearing that second guitar part just ruins it.

But I do think they played it very well. Sadly, much of the rest of both shows at Knebworth are a bit trying to get through, IMO.

[grego]

That's pretty much it. The hard rock acts of the 70s were vilified on a regular basis by Rolling Stone, Crawdaddy, Christgau, etc. It was the same with prog. If the main appeal of the act was musical rather than lyrics, those critics (who were mostly journalism majors) were clueless what to write about. They hated the teenage audience that ignored the reviews. They despised the bands for deposing their 60s heroes. Bands like Zep, Sabbath, Purple etc. never stood a chance with the critics of the time.

Absolutely. Crawdaddy, though, published a sympathetic review on Tarkus, and interview with each of ELP member in the center spread.

[grego]

Hardcore Bonham fanboy here, but those 20 min drum solos *are* insufferable. The man is best heard when accompanying the band, what with his incredible sense of time and tasty choice of notes. There may a million drummers out there now with superior technique, but he had a feel and sound that was truly one of a kind.

I agree...Bonham delivered well crafted solos.

[JJ88]

^I don't think that's what was said.

I don't like his drum solos.

[Vic2012]

Bonham was a hell of a drummer. He was a Wildman. But his solos were a chore to sit through.

[unclemeat]

The Rain Song (instrumental demo)

[BravadoNJ]

Houses Of The Holy could have been better album if they included the other songs from the session:
side A- TSRTS, Dancing Days, OTHAFA, The Rain Song.
side B- Houses Of The Holy, The Rover, Black Country Woman, No Quarter.

[Halmyre]

Houses Of The Holy could have been better album if they included the other songs from the session:
side A- TSRTS, Dancing Days, OTHAFA, The Rain Song.
side B- Houses Of The Holy, The Rover, Black Country Woman, No Quarter.

I've always thought this. The decision to include "D'Yer Mak'er" is the best argument in the world against the use of recreational substances. See also: "Hot Dog" on "In Through the Out Door".