Thread: And the best Black and White movie ever is:

  1. #3351
    So, I'm watching "The Thing from another World" on ME-TV and noticed a major flaw in the story.

    Any guesses?
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  2. #3352
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I was hoping to watch it, but the time was not good (6:00 pm). I did, however, watch "The Trouble with Harry" for the first time. I know our friend, Hal, is such a big fan. It's very good and I can see why it was one of Hitchcock's personal favorites. And, Like Hal (Barry) pointed out, the color is glorious. I can't say I was thrilled with John Forsythe. I give it 3-1/2 stars.. Maybe another viewing will bump it up to four.
    Yeah, Forsythe plays a bit of a smart ass in it. He also kind of stirs the pot, so to speak, so I don't mind him. It's a fun, charming movie with an undercurrent of dark humor but I would never give it 4 stars.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    BTW, another one of Hal's favorites is on tonight at 8:00 EST on TCM. But, it's not B&W, so I won't mention it.
    I just looked at last night's schedule and I'm a bit confused. And, I think, you are too.

    I just searched and this is what I said back in July when talking about the Musical genre:

    Disclaimers:
    I've never seen An American in Paris and have wanted to because, well... Gene Kelly is the boss.

    Now, Singin' in the Rain is the only traditional musical I would give 4 stars to. Might you be confusing An American in Paris with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    So, I'm watching "The Thing from another World" on ME-TV and noticed a major flaw in the story. Any guesses?
    It's been so long since I've seen it so I couldn't even begin to guess.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  3. #3353
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Yeah, Forsythe plays a bit of a smart ass in it. He also kind of stirs the pot, so to speak, so I don't mind him. It's a fun, charming movie with an undercurrent of dark humor but I would never give it 4 stars.
    Hmm, I though you gave it four stars. I know the local TV guide did. I didn't mind the Forsythe character. I just think he's a bland actor and didn't change my impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I just looked at last night's schedule and I'm a bit confused. And, I think, you are too.

    I just searched and this is what I said back in July when talking about the Musical genre:

    Disclaimers:
    • I've never seen An American in Paris and have wanted to because, well... Gene Kelly is the boss.

    Now, Singin' in the Rain is the only traditional musical I would give 4 stars to. Might you be confusing An American in Paris with it?
    You are correct. I was mistaken.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    It's been so long since I've seen it so I couldn't even begin to guess.
    I was hoping some others might bite, but maybe these two photos help:

    2.jpghqdefault.jpg
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  4. #3354
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Hmm, I though you gave it four stars. I know the local TV guide did.
    I've said it's one of my fave Hitch movies, certainly.

    I was hoping some others might bite, but maybe these two photos help:
    I thought I knew what you were getting at but now I'm not sure.

    What time of year is the movie supposed to take place?
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  5. #3355
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I remember seeing Ben Mankiewicz saying that Singin' in the Rain had the best plot of any classic Hollywood musical. I generally hate musicals. A good part of that is the plotless nature of the genre. Another would be that it's fucking show tunes and I hate fucking show tunes. But in my decrepit rocker phase, I can stand them a little bit better now. My wife and I annually watch White Christmas. I thoroughly enjoyed Singin'. I did record American in Paris a couple nights ago and we'll give that a try. I've written about musicals long enough now. I need to pick up the guitar and stomp on the distortion pedal for cleansing.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  6. #3356
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    What time of year is the movie supposed to take place?
    Very insightful question. I'm not sure of the answer.

    Just a reminder, it takes place in the North Pole.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  7. #3357
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Very insightful question. I'm not sure of the answer.

    Just a reminder, it takes place in the North Pole.
    Is it John Carpenter's The Thing?

  8. #3358
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    Is it John Carpenter's The Thing?
    No, the original. The photos I shared are B&W.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  9. #3359
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    No, the original. The photos I shared are B&W.
    I'm going to guess and say that there is an obvious day and night, when that wouldn't be the case.

  10. #3360
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    I'm going to guess and say that there is an obvious day and night, when that wouldn't be the case.
    We have a winner!
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  11. #3361
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    I'm going to guess and say that there is an obvious day and night, when that wouldn't be the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    We have a winner!
    Aha! I thought that's what you were getting at.

    But, it depends on the time of year. Beginning in May, most of the region north of the Arctic Circle is daylight for 24 hours. But that only lasts for about 30 days, depending how far north you are, and almost entirely in June. The closer to the pole you get, however, the more days of daylight you have. For example, Alert, Canada is at about 8230' North (very close to the north pole) and the first day they have 24 hours of light is April 6. That continues until September 6. But this year, on the Vernal equinox they had 12.65 hours of daylight and on the Autumnal equinox they had 12.8 hours of daylight.

    That's why I asked what time of year the movie takes place.

    When I was in the Coast Guard, my first duty station was on a ship, homeported in Seattle, and we went on two ALPATS (Alaskan Patrol) while I was on board; the first in '84 and the second in '85. In June of '85, we were up in the Bering Sea, just north of the Pribilof Islands and just south of the Arctic Circle. One day, I had the mid watch, which is from midnight until 4am. When I got on watch, the sun had just set, altho there was still light in the sky. By the time I got off watch, the sky was getting light again. Had we been farther north, we would have had no night time at all.

    But while latitude dictates how much light you get in summer, so too does the time of year. Had we been in the same spot three months earlier, we'd have had only about 12 hours of daylight instead of the 18 we did have.

    This is a long-ass explanation to say that daylight and nighttime are possible in one day at the North Pole. The same is true for the South Pole... 6 months later.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  12. #3362
    ^^ The conditions went from bright daylight to the darkest of night over the course of a couple of days or so. That could never happen.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  13. #3363
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Cool story Hal! I find the shortened winter days really tough. Shopping with my wife this afternoon we started out bright but by 4ish it was pitch dark. I miss the sun.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  14. #3364
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    They really didn't get extreme cold weather survival right either so one can't expect a whole lot of scientific accuracy here. Then again, just about every movie I've seen set in the Arctic or Antarctic shows people in extreme weather with faces bared to the wind, hoods down, gloves off, etc. But 50s/60s/70s era "science fiction" was particularly bad.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  15. #3365
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    They really didn't get extreme cold weather survival right either so one can't expect a whole lot of scientific accuracy here. Then again, just about every movie I've seen set in the Arctic or Antarctic shows people in extreme weather with faces bared to the wind, hoods down, gloves off, etc. But 50s/60s/70s era "science fiction" was particularly bad.
    I noticed the same thing.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  16. #3366
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    ^^ The conditions went from bright daylight to the darkest of night over the course of a couple of days or so. That could never happen.
    I have to give you props for noticing the situation in the first place - and for sticking to your guns - but, not trying to be argumentative, it actually could happen.

    The aforementioned Alert, Canada has just over 4 hours of daylight on March 1st. On the 4th, they have just over 6. On the 8th, just over 8. On the 13th, just over 10. And on the 18th, just over 12. Sunrise/Sunset times for Alert in March.

    Shit gets weird when you get north of a certain latitude. For instance, the most northern place we ever tied up was in Anchorage, which is at latitude 6113′N. We had to go in at high tide. After tying up, we'd put out the brow (what you civilians call a gangway). It would go down to the pier at an angle of about -30, give or take. At low tide, we would literally be sitting in the mud (I am not exaggerating!), and the brow rose up at an angle of about +30. In June the difference between high and low tides ranges from about 24 feet to over 30 feet in Anchorage. For example, the lowest tide I could find in June is -4 feet (yes, it's actually below sea level). The corresponding high tide is 29.7 feet. That's a difference of 33.7 feet.

    Incidentally, I picked Alert because it's the northern most city in the world, only 508 miles from the North Pole. Plus, I couldn't find sunrise/sunset data for the NP. Granted, I didn't try very hard, either. Part of the problem is there are no permanent installations on the Arctic ice because it's ice, not land. There are plenty of installations around the Arctic but none as far north as Alert.

    To me, the most unrealistic part of the movie is that there's an installation on the North Pole itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    Cool story Hal! I find the shortened winter days really tough. Shopping with my wife this afternoon we started out bright but by 4ish it was pitch dark. I miss the sun.
    I find that interesting. Scott Bails (a member here) once said he wished we'd stay at Daylight Saving Time year round because he likes how late the sun sets in summer. Not me; I'd prefer we stayed on Standard Time year round. In fact, that period from late November to about the third week of December is one of my favorite times of year because the sun sets so early.

    FYI, the date of the earliest sunset is not on the Winter Solstice. Surprised? The earliest sunset is actually December 7th (for NYC). But while the sunset gets later in the day from then on, sunrise continues to, as well, only at a faster rate, until the Winter Solstice. After that, the rate at which it changes slows down. Still, you might be surprised to learn that the date of the latest sunrise is January 3rd (for NYC). Quite a discrepancy.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  17. #3367
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I have to give you props for noticing the situation in the first place - and for sticking to your guns - but, not trying to be argumentative, it actually could happen.

    The aforementioned Alert, Canada has just over 4 hours of daylight on March 1st. On the 4th, they have just over 6. On the 8th, just over 8. On the 13th, just over 10. And on the 18th, just over 12. Sunrise/Sunset times for Alert in March.

    Shit gets weird when you get north of a certain latitude. For instance, the most northern place we ever tied up was in Anchorage, which is at latitude 6113′N. We had to go in at high tide. After tying up, we'd put out the brow (what you civilians call a gangway). It would go down to the pier at an angle of about -30, give or take. At low tide, we would literally be sitting in the mud (I am not exaggerating!), and the brow rose up at an angle of about +30. In June the difference between high and low tides ranges from about 24 feet to over 30 feet in Anchorage. For example, the lowest tide I could find in June is -4 feet (yes, it's actually below sea level). The corresponding high tide is 29.7 feet. That's a difference of 33.7 feet.

    Incidentally, I picked Alert because it's the northern most city in the world, only 508 miles from the North Pole. Plus, I couldn't find sunrise/sunset data for the NP. Granted, I didn't try very hard, either. Part of the problem is there are no permanent installations on the Arctic ice because it's ice, not land. There are plenty of installations around the Arctic but none as far north as Alert.

    To me, the most unrealistic part of the movie is that there's an installation on the North Pole itself.


    I find that interesting. Scott Bails (a member here) once said he wished we'd stay at Daylight Saving Time year round because he likes how late the sun sets in summer. Not me; I'd prefer we stayed on Standard Time year round. In fact, that period from late November to about the third week of December is one of my favorite times of year because the sun sets so early.

    FYI, the date of the earliest sunset is not on the Winter Solstice. Surprised? The earliest sunset is actually December 7th (for NYC). But while the sunset gets later in the day from then on, sunrise continues to, as well, only at a faster rate, until the Winter Solstice. After that, the rate at which it changes slows down. Still, you might be surprised to learn that the date of the latest sunrise is January 3rd (for NYC). Quite a discrepancy.
    But how do they define daylight? These scenes went from extreme daylight to extreme darkness. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. While there might technically be four hours of daylight on March 4, that doesn't mean the other 20 are extreme dark of night. They would be twilight, right?

    You really think the most unrealistic part of the movie is that there's an installation on the North Pole itself? The fact that a plant-based being from another world that lives on the blood of animals also has the same form as an Earth human is more plausible?
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  18. #3368
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    But how do they define daylight? These scenes went from extreme daylight to extreme darkness. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. While there might technically be four hours of daylight on March 4, that doesn't mean the other 20 are extreme dark of night. They would be twilight, right?
    I had a whole explanation of why that might not be the case but, well, read on.


    My biggest criticism would be that the shadows of the guys should be much longer when it's light out since the sun is much lower in the sky.

    I will concede that the depiction probably isn't accurate. Probably. Now, had you said that they were there in summer, then yes, you'd be spot on.

    But how many times do you hear sound in space in sci-fi movies? 99.99% of the time? Or see some guy fire off 10 shots from a six shooter?

    You wanna see some really stupid shit? This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a movie or on TV:



    Forget for a second the crappy exposition and the high school level dialogue, and the questionable acting.

    Had everything worked like it was supposed to, can you explain to me how they were supposed to get back to the truck after they blew the bridge they needed to cross to get back to the truck???

    Seriously, have you ever seen writing so stupid in your life?


    Here's another example. Look at this picture from the remade Lost in Space on Netflix:



    The characters are there looking for a ship that has crash landed. It turns out, that after a storm, there was some sort of landslide that covered the ship under about a foot of dirt. Don, the guy in the orange jacket, is actually running on top of the ship. They discover this and shovel off some of the dirt over a hatch to get to a fuel tank to pump it out and into the tanker car thingy you see in the lower left corner.

    As you can see from the picture, there's a cliff in front of Don. What you can't see is that the nose of the ship is hanging over the cliff. The fuel tank is in the aft part of the ship, about halfway between Don and the running woman in front of the car with the red stripe.

    Don points out that as the fuel is pumped out of the ship, the aft part of the ship will get lighter and the ship will begin tipping over the cliff and dragging their fuel tanker car thingy with it. Their solution? To use the cars as anchors, using tow lines tied to the ship. Now, here's the funny part: just prior to Don pointing out the ship will topple over the cliff, the leader of the group asks a woman how long it will take to transfer the fuel. She tells him 3 hours. He says to try to make it 2. She says, and I have to quote this, "would you like me to change the laws of physics or just lie to you?" I thought that was a good line. That is, until they came up with the solution to keep the ship from going over the edge.

    Supposedly, they know physics and yet they have absolutely no understanding of fulcrums. All they had to do was park the tanker car thingy over top of the aft part of the ship, thus there's no shift in the fulcrum as the fuel is pumped out and the ship won't topple over the cliff.

    I used to think writers, directors, producers, whomever, underestimated their audience or simply thought we're stupid. After these two scenes, I now think the fucking writers are stupid.

    And now that I think about it, maybe you're right about The Thing afterall.

    You really think the most unrealistic part of the movie is that there's an installation on the North Pole itself? The fact that a plant-based being from another world that lives on the blood of animals also has the same form as an Earth human is more plausible?
    Aside from that.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  19. #3369
    ^^ Good stuff.

    Another dumb thing in The Thing was when they were collecting kerosene to throw on the creature and attempt to burn him. One of the guys is standing right next to them smoking a cigarette. The guy pouring the fuel into a bucket tells him to get rid of the cigarette. What does he do? He drops it on the floor RIGHT THERE and stomps it out. Sure it's not technically unfeasible, but pretty damned stupid.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  20. #3370
    "Baby Face" 1933 with Stanwyck is on TCM tomorrow night.

    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  21. #3371
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Ron, Hal. I see MTV will run three hours of cartoons on Saturday mornings. It will be good to see those again. Bogey and the black bird is on tonight.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  22. #3372
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    ^^ Good stuff.

    Another dumb thing in The Thing was when they were collecting kerosene to throw on the creature and attempt to burn him. One of the guys is standing right next to them smoking a cigarette. The guy pouring the fuel into a bucket tells him to get rid of the cigarette. What does he do? He drops it on the floor RIGHT THERE and stomps it out. Sure it's not technically unfeasible, but pretty damned stupid.
    I think the idea is, watch, eat popcorn, don't think.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  23. #3373
    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Ron, Hal. I see MTV will run three hours of cartoons on Saturday mornings. It will be good to see those again. Bogey and the black bird is on tonight.
    Yes, The Maltese Falcon, followed by The Thin Man. Film Noir at its best.

    I can't say that I'm a William Powell fan, though. There's something about him that rubs me the wrong way. The smarminess in so many of his roles, perhaps. I honestly don't think I've ever seen The Thin Man all the way through in one sitting. I will tonight, though.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  24. #3374
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    The Falcon makes up for the terrible blunder Hitch made in Verigo, a film I really love seeing. In Vertigo, Judy sits down and starts a letter that gives away everything. At this point there is really no need to watch the rest of the film. Everything has been devolged for the most part. The solutions should have happened on the stairs of the church. In the Falcon you have the pieces to the puzzle but they don't come together until the last few minutes of the film. I can't believe that someone didn't say something to Hitch about the way he handled the ending to Verigo. Would like to hear his explanation. Houston did it right in the Falcon.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  25. #3375
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Yes, The Maltese Falcon, followed by The Thin Man. Film Noir at its best.

    I can't say that I'm a William Powell fan, though. There's something about him that rubs me the wrong way. The smarminess in so many of his roles, perhaps. I honestly don't think I've ever seen The Thin Man all the way through in one sitting. I will tonight, though.
    I like Powell, but I never really felt like I needed to see ALL of one of the Thin Man movies. It's enough to soak up the atmosphere of one. A lot of old movies are like that - it's enough to catch half of it, or just a portion from the middle. I guess that's why my dad used to take us into movies when they'd already started, and we'd just stay until the part where we came in during the next showing. A lot of the old movies are more about the great character actors, and less about the plot.

    What's your favorite PART of an old, B&W movie? I love the beginning of the Claude Rains "The Invisible Man," where he arrives at the inn during the snow storm, with Una O'Connor. And of course the Lugosi "Dracula" where Harker arrives at the castle, and Dracula welcomes him and gives him dinner, with wine. I sometimes like to just watch those scenes.

    And back to Robin Hood (Errol Flynn), where he waltzes into the castle to talk to Prince John (Claude Rains again).

    Any ten minutes of any Marx Brothers movie is often enough!

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