And the best Black and White movie ever is:

[Hal...]

I didn't see this airing but have seen it multiple times. Its a good flic.

I've only seen it once but have wanted to see it again. And, yes, a good flick.

----------

From that list above, I'm looking forward to quite a few but the ones with an asterisk I'm going to do my best not to miss:
Nocturne
The Harder They Fall
This Gun For Hire* (this sounds like my kind of film noir)
Johnny Eager
Kansas City Confidential (I've seen this one but I want to see it again)
The Mask of Dimitrios* (Greenstreet & Lorre are two of cinema's great pairings!)
Berlin Express* (spy movie and film noir? sign me up!)
Criss Cross (ambivalent about this one)
Cash on Demand (mostly for Peter Cushing)
The Captive City
Try and Get Me (altho I can see having trouble watching Lloyd Bridges in an early role, as I'll probably keep thinking, "looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue")
Sweet Smell of Success* (I was actually a little ambivalent about this one until I read a blurb by Andrew Sarris for the New York Observer:

Alexander Mackendrick’s Sweet Smell of Success (1957), from a screenplay by Clifford Odets and Ernest Lehman, is being returned to Film Forum for an extended run after its recent successful two-week revival. Please see it if you haven’t already, and don’t be put off by its cult status after failing at the box office on its initial release. At the time, my friends and I were startled most by the brilliant performance of Tony Curtis in his much-ridiculed “my foddah, da caliph” period. Mr. Curtis’ Sidney Falco feeds items to Burt Lancaster’s J.J. Hunsecker, a power-hungry right-wing gossip columnist modeled after Walter Winchell. Acting honors go also to Emile Meyer as a crooked police detective at least a decade before his time. Falco and the detective form an uneasy alliance to frame jazz musician Martin Milner on a drug rap to end his relationship with Hunsecker’s nubile sister, played by Susan Harrison. The intimations of covert incest on the part of Hunsecker toward his sister was another taboo-breaker. But the main incentive to see this movie is its witty, pungent and idiomatic dialogue, such as you never hear on the screen anymore in this age of special-effects illiteracy.¹

Oh, man, I love good dialogue. And Emile Meyer as a crooked cop? Not even having seen the movie I already know this is perfect casting. To me, Meyer is best remembered as the antagonist in Shane who keeps harassing Van Heflin. He also played the priest in Paths of Glory. And, of course, seeing Burt Lancaster as a villain has really piqued my interest.)

[nycsteve]

One could argue that Dimitrios of The Mask Of Dimitrious is the inspiration for Kiaser Souse in The Usual Suspects.

[Staun]

Hal, that's a good Noir list above. The Big Sleep, Kansas City confidential, Sweet Smell Of Success and The Harder They Fall jump out at me. Especially, THTF because I love those boxing films from that time. Rod Steiger and Bogey was a great combo. Wish there could have been more interaction between them. Also, what's the difference between, Formula 1 and Indy?

[Staun]

One could argue that Dimitrios of The Mask Of Dimitrious is the inspiration for Kiaser Souse in The Usual Suspects.

Thought you were going to say, Dimitrious and the Gladiator. Which brings up, what are the great Roman and or Gladiator films?

[Jerjo]

Did you say "gladiator movies"

[Staun]

Did you say "gladiator movies"

Well, it had to be.

[Hal...]

Also, what's the difference between, Formula 1 and Indy?

Oh, man. lol. You want the short answer or the long one? Who am I kidding? You're getting the long one.

Aside from being different series? F1 travels around the world having one race in each of 21 different countries whereas Indy has 17 races, 16 in the US and one in Toronto.

It's hard to find figures for the average number of employees of an Indycar team but it's estimated Penske Racing, one of the top teams, has 50-60 employees. In F1, the smallest teams have maybe 20 more than that while the largest (i.e. most successful) have in the neighborhood of 200-300.

The budget for an Indycar team is $3-$8 million per car, depending on the team, with the top drivers earning roughly $1.5 million while drivers of the lower tier teams earn in the low 6 figures.

In F1, the budgets range from a low of €120 million to around €400 million for Ferrari & Mercedes; €300 million for Red Bull (3rd best team). Salaries for the drivers range from a low of €160,000 to a high of €35 million for Sebastien Vettel and €40 million for Lewis Hamilton, who have a combined 9 driver's championships.

The combined budget for all 10 teams in F1 is $2.6 billion, according to Forbes.

I don't really watch Indycar anymore so I'm not sure about the performance of the cars but the top speed during qualifying at the Indy 500 is 235-240 mph. That's with very little downforce. An Indycar produces about 700 hp.

Comparatively, a few years ago it was reported that F1 cars can go from 0-100mph and come to a stop in 6 seconds with the majority of that time accelerating (they brake amazingly fast!). Also during that time, one of the teams took one of their cars to the Salt Flats, I think, and took the wings off. It topped out at over 250mph. An F1 car produces around 750 hp. The big difference, however, is that while an Indycar weighs 1590-1630 lbs (depending on the kind of race), an F1 car weighs 660 kg (~1455 lbs), and as you probably know, the heavier a car the slower it is.

Here's a mind-blowing fact: the downforce (measured in kg or lbs) caused by the wings on an F1 car is greater than the weight of the car (the aerodynamic wings on a car are basically upside down airplane wings, pushing the car down). What that means is that if you could design a track that raised into the air and rotated 180°, the downforce would - theoretically - enable an F1 car to drive upside down! At certain tracks with high speed corners, drivers experience around 7-8 Gs of lateral force!

It can be hard to directly compare the two cars as both have only ever raced on two circuits: Montreal and the road course at Indy. The IndyCar Grand Prix is ~2.44 miles and the lap record is 1:09.5 (an average of 126.4 mph) during practice. That was in 2019. The US Grand Prix for F1 cars (from 2000-2007), was 2.6 miles and the lap record was 1:10.4 (an average of 133.5 mph). F1 cars are even faster now.

At Montreal, where the track is/was identical for both series, the last year for an Indy type car race was in 2006. The fastest qualifying time was 1:20. That same year at the 2006 F1 Canadian GP, the fastest qualifying time was 1:15 - 5 seconds faster. The course record, set this year, is just over 1:10 - almost 10 seconds faster!

The slowest car in F1, which is usually lapped by the leader, would probably lap the fastest Indycar.

Short answer: F1 is the pinnacle of automotive sport.

The sad thing is the old Indycar series, called CART back then, was the most exciting and competitive open wheel racing in the world in the late '80s and '90s until 1996, when Tony George (president of Indianapolis Motor Speedway) wanted a bigger piece of the pie and started his own series calling it the Indy Racing League. About 1/3 of the CART teams jumped ship - all of the least competitive ones. Over the years, CART (who changed their name to Champ Car) got smaller and smaller while the IRL got bigger and bigger, only because the Indy 500 was no longer on the CART schedule (Tony George took his ball and went home). CART died a slow death and the IRL became the premier open wheel racing series in the US. Unfortunately, the IRL pretty much sucked so most of the fans of CART didn't follow the new series and consequently ratings for the IRL got progressively worse, which meant lower revenue, and so on. Basically, Tony George fucked it all up.


P.S. Hope you appreciate all the research I did on this post.

[Staun]

Hal, that was impressive. Casual people like me know none of this. All we know is, the cars look similar and after reading this, that's all we know. I do know, however, that the F1 guys get all the really pretty girls Still, that's a lot of money to invest in a car and team.

[Hal...]

Hal, that was impressive. Casual people like me know none of this. All we know is, the cars look similar and after reading this, that's all we know. I do know, however, that the F1 guys get all the really pretty girls Still, that's a lot of money to invest in a car and team.

Thanks. Bear in mind, revenue (in the form of sponsorship; i.e. ads & logos on the cars & helmets) for Indycars is only nationwide, for the most part. The sponsorship in F1 is global. Lots more $$$ coming in means lots more $$$ to spend. That's why guys like Vettel & Hamilton can command such high salaries. They're proven winners who get a lot of TV time and big time sponsors want their logos seen on their cars.

p.s. I've been following both series since the '80s, but only F1 since the late '90s. Some of that stuff I posted is from memory but almost everywhere you see an actual number I had to look up... except for Ferrari's budget. The now defunct McLaren Honda, who was so dominant in the late '80s, was probably the first team to step into the stratosphere when it came to numbers of employees and budgets. But they also had Honda behind them so at least half of the team were actually Honda engineers and the Japanese take their reputation very seriously. In other words, money was no object.

[nycsteve]

So with all the race talk what are the favorite movies featuring racing. You have your Lemans , Grand Prix , think I have them right , the McQueen one and the Garner one. I think cruise did one and wasn't there a Ron Howard directed one ? The one Im thinking of is the undrrated Logan Lucky. A race/heist comedy/drama. Pretty fun.

[nycsteve]

And of course , Talagia Nights (?) . The Ferrell comedy. Also funny.

[Staun]

Thanks. Bear in mind, revenue (in the form of sponsorship; i.e. ads & logos on the cars & helmets) for Indycars is only nationwide, for the most part. The sponsorship in F1 is global. Lots more $$$ coming in means lots more $$$ to spend. That's why guys like Vettel & Hamilton can command such high salaries. They're proven winners who get a lot of TV time and big time sponsors want their logos seen on their cars.

p.s. I've been following both series since the '80s, but only F1 since the late '90s. Some of that stuff I posted is from memory but almost everywhere you see an actual number I had to look up... except for Ferrari's budget. The now defunct McLaren Honda, who was so dominant in the late '80s, was probably the first team to step into the stratosphere when it came to numbers of employees and budgets. But they also had Honda behind them so at least half of the team were actually Honda engineers and the Japanese take their reputation very seriously. In other words, money was no object.

I certainly remember the name, McLaren.

[Staun]

So with all the race talk what are the favorite movies featuring racing. You have your Lemans , Grand Prix , think I have them right , the McQueen one and the Garner one. I think cruise did one and wasn't there a Ron Howard directed one ? The one Im thinking of is the undrrated Logan Lucky. A race/heist comedy/drama. Pretty fun.

Wasn't there some NASSCAR films. A movie about a driver named, Junior Johnson. Wasn't Bo Bridges in that? Red Line 5000 or something?

[Jerjo]

The Ron Howard film is Rush and it's about 1970s rivalry between drivers James Hunt and Niki Lauda. Helluva movie.

The Last American Hero is about Junior Johnson and starred Jeff Bridges.

[Staun]

The Ron Howard film is Rush and it's about 1970s rivalry between drivers James Hunt and Niki Lauda. Helluva movie.

The Last American Hero is about Junior Johnson and starred Jeff Bridges.

Well, I was in the neighborhood. Thanks JJ.

[Hal...]

I certainly remember the name, McLaren.

Bruce McLaren was a Kiwi who started his own F1 team in the early to mid '60s. He was pretty successful but he died in his early 30s in a crash. His main series were F1 and Can-Am. His Can-Am chassis was always bright orange and was really cool looking (the F1 McLarens went back to that classic orange a couple years ago). Do you remember the Revell plastic models in the '70s? I'm pretty sure one of them was one of those orange McLarens and I think either Hot Wheels or Matchbox had a McLaren car. I first heard the name McLaren as a chassis built for the Indy 500 back in the '70s, altho I don't think Bruce ever raced in it. I think he also built chassis for LeMans.

After his death, the F1 team continued on under different ownership. It was that team that became so successful in the '80s and beyond. Some of the McLaren drivers whose names you might recognize: Niki Lauda (Ron Howard's movie, Rush, was about the rivalry between Lauda and James Hunt), Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna (the Brazilian many claim was the greatest ever; he lost his life in a race in the early '90s), Kimi Raikkonen, Fernando Alonso (who drove in the Indy 500 last year and tried to qualify this year in a McLaren, who built an Indycar just for him), and Lewis Hamilton. Those six drivers account for 16 driver's championships, altho most drivers won most of them with different teams.

The only guys I can remember who drove a McLaren at the Indy 500 were Mark Donohue, Peter Revson (whose uber rich parents owned Revco pharmacy and the makeup company, Revlon; that's why Revson's nickname was "Champagne Peter"), and Johnny Rutherford. Donohue & Revson both lost their lives in F1 races.

BTW, McLaren also started building street legal supercars in the mid '90s, I think. The first one, called the F1, was a three seater with the driver's seat in the middle and two passenger seats on either side and slightly behind. It is a sweet looking car and I think is faster than both Ferrari's and Lamborghini's cars.

So with all the race talk what are the favorite movies featuring racing. You have your Lemans , Grand Prix , think I have them right , the McQueen one and the Garner one. I think cruise did one and wasn't there a Ron Howard directed one ? The one Im thinking of is the undrrated Logan Lucky. A race/heist comedy/drama. Pretty fun.

I already mentioned Rush, which I haven't seen. I'm leery of racing movies where they dramatize stuff.

I liked LeMans. There wasn't a whole lot of story to it, tho.

Grand Prix was okay. The best part of it was that John Frankenheimer put cameras on the nose of real F1 cars. The footage is awesome. The story, not so much.

There was a movie made about the CART series that I think starred Sylvester Stallone. I saw one clip and immediately knew I didn't want to see it.

I don't know if it qualifies, but there was a movie that starred Anthony Hopkins, called The World's Fastest Indian, about a guy who wanted to break the land speed record on a motorcycle (it's been a while since I've seen it). He uses an Indian motorcycle, hence the name. I was surprised at how good it was! Look for this one!

Not sure if any of you have an interest in documentaries but there have been some really good ones. There's one called McLaren, which I thought was excellent. There's one about Ayrton Senna called Senna, duh. It was good. And another on Netflix about Frank Williams and his F1 team called - you guessed it - Williams. It was pretty good, too. There's also a Netflix documentary series filmed during a F1 season called Formula 1: Drive to Survive. It was really interesting. And then there's one about LeMans I saw on either Netflix or Amazon. Can't remember the title.

There have also been some old B&W movies about the Indy 500. Don't know any of the titles, tho. Anyone seen any of them?

I have absolutely no interest in Nascar movies.

[NogbadTheBad]

Rush is an excellent movie, you should check it out. I thoroughly enjoyed the McLaren, Williams & Drive To Survive documentaries.

[Hal...]

Rush is an excellent movie, you should check it out. I thoroughly enjoyed the McLaren, Williams & Drive To Survive documentaries.

Do you know about the LeMans documentary, Ian? I can't remember if it was about a specific team or just the race... or both.

Let me go see if I can find the title somewhere.

It's called Le Mans: Racing is Everything and it's on Amazon Prime. It's a limited series. It was really good, too.

[Staun]

Do you know about the LeMans documentary, Ian? I can't remember if it was about a specific team or just the race... or both.

Let me go see if I can find the title somewhere.

It's called Le Mans: Racing is Everything and it's on Amazon Prime. It's a limited series. It was really good, too.

I have heard of , Prost and Revson. If it's on Prime, maybe I'll lean in for a look.

[Jerjo]

Who knew that the topic of Formula One would turn Hal into Guitargeek?

[Hal...]

Who knew that the topic of Formula One would turn Hal into Guitargeek?

Me. It's my favorite sport.

[NogbadTheBad]

Do you know about the LeMans documentary, Ian? I can't remember if it was about a specific team or just the race... or both.

Let me go see if I can find the title somewhere.

It's called Le Mans: Racing is Everything and it's on Amazon Prime. It's a limited series. It was really good, too.

Thanks! I'll certainly watch it, love motor sport, they used to run the British Rally through the forestry roads behind our house on the North Yorkshire Moors. Those guys are nuts.

[GuitarGeek]

Who knew that the topic of Formula One would turn Hal into Guitargeek?

Funny, I was gonna say, "Hey, that's my schtick!"

[Hal...]

Thanks! I'll certainly watch it, love motor sport, they used to run the British Rally through the forestry roads behind our house on the North Yorkshire Moors. Those guys are nuts.

I've watched some rally racing on TV before. I liken it to controlled chaos. It's fun to watch. The people I think are nuts, tho, are the spectators on the side of the road!

[Staun]

Who knew that the topic of Formula One would turn Hal into Guitargeek?

It's good to find someone's soft spot, their achilles heel. For future reference.