Thread: And the best Black and White movie ever is:

  1. #3226
    Watching "The Song Remains the Same" right now and reminded why I outgrew Led Zeppelin. The posing it excruciating to watch.

    Hendrix following this will be a nice antidote
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  2. #3227
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Watching "The Song Remains the Same" right now and [it] reminded [me] why I outgrew Led Zeppelin. The posing [is] excruciating to watch.
    Posing aside, that could have been a very good movie if the fantasy sequences were removed and the editing was properly directed.*

    *I have rarely seen footage of a musical act properly filmed or directed, be it on TV or in a concert movie. Two exceptions are Rust Never Sleeps and Stop Making Sense (from what I recall, Woodstock isn't bad, but it isn't great, either). Just the other day, in fact, I ran across an old film of Genesis from 1974 and during one of Steve Hackett's solos, the director cut to Peter Gabriel right before Steve played something really interesting. And what's gotten really bad about them is that directors are now cutting between cameras even faster, especially on TV, remaining on a musician no longer than 1 or 2 seconds. It's infuriating.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  3. #3228
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    The direction on Song Remains the Same was abysmal. The camera spent more time on Plant's crotch than on Page's or Jones' hands.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  4. #3229
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Posing aside, that could have been a very good movie if the fantasy sequences were removed and the editing was properly directed.*

    *I have rarely seen footage of a musical act properly filmed or directed, be it on TV or in a concert movie. Two exceptions are Rust Never Sleeps and Stop Making Sense (from what I recall, Woodstock isn't bad, but it isn't great, either). Just the other day, in fact, I ran across an old film of Genesis from 1974 and during one of Steve Hackett's solos, the director cut to Peter Gabriel right before Steve played something really interesting. And what's gotten really bad about them is that directors are now cutting between cameras even faster, especially on TV, remaining on a musician no longer than 1 or 2 seconds. It's infuriating.
    A lot of those early concert films were not shot by fans, obviously. They were by-the-book approaches, which don't work when you're trying to see some fretwork.

    Scorsese's concert films are wonderfully done and should be the standard to which others aspire.

    Woodstock has its ups and downs. There's too much form over function during Jimi's set. We're hearing iconic playing and barely seeing the head of his guitar. Luckily, that was rectified with the official release of the entire show. Well, almost entire; two Larry Lee songs were cut. The family seems to be in denial that they ever happened.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  5. #3230
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    A lot of those early concert films were not shot by fans, obviously. They were by-the-book approaches, which don't work when you're trying to see some fretwork.

    Scorsese's concert films are wonderfully done and should be the standard to which others aspire.

    Woodstock has its ups and downs. There's too much form over function during Jimi's set. We're hearing iconic playing and barely seeing the head of his guitar. Luckily, that was rectified with the official release of the entire show. Well, almost entire; two Larry Lee songs were cut. The family seems to be in denial that they ever happened.
    Marty worked on Woodstock, too, iirc. His big concert film was The Band's retirement concert/party wasn't it? Never cared for them so I never saw it.

    AFAIC, the definitive concert movie is Jonathan Demme's Stop Making Sense. Absolutely brilliant.

    D.A. Pennebaker's Monterey Pop was also really good but it was more of a documentary than a concert movie. One of the things I learned in the documentary film studies course I took was that Mama Cass's reaction to Janis Joplin's performance was actually shot during an entirely different performance. Pennebaker edited it to make it look like she was reacting to Janis. Not exactly cinéma vérité.

    I wrote a paper on the Stones' Gimme Shelter. Again, tho, it's really a doc, rather than a concert movie. Still, that movie is a bit of a mess. A lot of exposition was missing and it appeared to me as if, ultimately, it was edited as a sort of legal disclaimer from the Stones over Meredith Hunter's stabbing by a Hell's Angel.

    I just remembered another quasi concert movie that was pretty good: Rainbow Bridge. The first half has nothing to do with Jimi but the second half shows him performing. It's been a really long time since I've seen it but I don't recall any objections to it.

    And then there's the King Crimson video of them in Japan on the Three of a Perfect Pair tour. It's pretty decent but the director decided to add in some stupid visual effect during part of Bruford's solo that was totally unnecessary and completely detracted from the video.

    Seems to me that the vast majority of filmmakers doing concert films aren't really music fans; they're auteur wannabes.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  6. #3231
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    This morning on TCM, Double Indemnity with Bette Davis, followed by, Birdman of Alcatraz. Good stuff.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  7. #3232
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Song Remains the Same was and is hard to watch. Hendrix had to clean things up a might. For Woodstock, I always enjoy the scenes of the people milling around muddy and stoned.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  8. #3233
    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    This morning on TCM, Double Indemnity with Bette Davis, followed by, Birdman of Alcatraz. Good stuff.
    I would have replaced Burt Lancaster in Birdman Of Alcatraz with Micky Rooney.

  9. #3234
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    I would have replaced Burt Lancaster in Birdman Of Alcatraz with Micky Rooney.
    Shrimp Man of Alcatraz
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  10. #3235
    We were discussing Mitchum. This one's on TCM tonight at 8:00. Anyone ever see it?

    Out of the Past (1947)

    LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW 3-1/2 stars:
    D: Jacques Tourneur. Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer, Kirk Douglas, Rhonda Fleming, Richard Webb, Steve Brodie, Virginia Huston, Paul Valentine, Dickie Moore. Mitchum finds he can't escape former life when one-time employer (gangster Douglas) and lover (Greer) entangle him in web of murder and double-dealings. Classic example of 1940s film noir, with dialogue a particular standout. Script by Geoffrey Homes (Daniel Mainwaring), from his novel Build My Gallows High. Remade as AGAINST ALL ODDS.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  11. #3236
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    I would have replaced Burt Lancaster in Birdman Of Alcatraz with Micky Rooney.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  12. #3237
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    We were discussing Mitchum. This one's on TCM tonight at 8:00. Anyone ever see it?

    Out of the Past (1947)

    LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW 3-1/2 stars:
    D: Jacques Tourneur. Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer, Kirk Douglas, Rhonda Fleming, Richard Webb, Steve Brodie, Virginia Huston, Paul Valentine, Dickie Moore. Mitchum finds he can't escape former life when one-time employer (gangster Douglas) and lover (Greer) entangle him in web of murder and double-dealings. Classic example of 1940s film noir, with dialogue a particular standout. Script by Geoffrey Homes (Daniel Mainwaring), from his novel Build My Gallows High. Remade as AGAINST ALL ODDS.
    Yeah, I commented on it when I watched a bunch of film noir movies last year (or the year before). This one didn't fare that well with me: I didn't like the ending and I've always had problems with Kirk Douglas. I don't remember anything more than that, tho.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  13. #3238
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    We were discussing Mitchum. This one's on TCM tonight at 8:00. Anyone ever see it?

    Out of the Past (1947)

    LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW 3-1/2 stars:
    D: Jacques Tourneur. Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer, Kirk Douglas, Rhonda Fleming, Richard Webb, Steve Brodie, Virginia Huston, Paul Valentine, Dickie Moore. Mitchum finds he can't escape former life when one-time employer (gangster Douglas) and lover (Greer) entangle him in web of murder and double-dealings. Classic example of 1940s film noir, with dialogue a particular standout. Script by Geoffrey Homes (Daniel Mainwaring), from his novel Build My Gallows High. Remade as AGAINST ALL ODDS.
    If you are in any way a fan of noir , this is a must see. 9 of 10 , easy.

  14. #3239
    To be fair, Bette Davis would have done well in Double Indemnity, because she was just so great. But she would have done no better than Barbara Stanwyck, that's for sure.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  15. #3240
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Yeah, I commented on it when I watched a bunch of film noir movies last year (or the year before). This one didn't fare that well with me: I didn't like the ending and I've always had problems with Kirk Douglas. I don't remember anything more than that, tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    If you are in any way a fan of noir , this is a must see. 9 of 10 , easy.
    Well, I'll definitely watch and see which side I come in on it.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  16. #3241
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    I saw "To Have And Have Not" for the first time today. I've loved every Bogart I've seen, and this is one of his best, but Bacall stole this show. The sexiest "side-eye" ever, and that attitude. No wonder Bogie fell for her in real life. Hoagy Carmichael was a kick as well.
    No matter how corrupt, greedy, and heartless our government, our corporations, our media, and our religious and charitable institutions may become, the music will still be wonderful. - Kurt Vonnegut

  17. #3242
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Well, I'll definitely watch and see which side I come in on it.
    One thing about this movie I will concede is that Douglas has more of a bit part so he's tolerable to me and so the movie is actually pretty good... up until the ending.

    If you happen to run across it in the future, look for The Killers with Burt Lancaster. I think it was his first starring role - or maybe his first movie (after checking, it was his first movie). I was surprised at how good it is. Definitely one of the better film noir movies. Top ten for certain.

    Another I really liked, even though it's a B picture, is Kansas City Confidential.

    Quote Originally Posted by headcrash View Post
    I saw "To Have And Have Not" for the first time today. I've loved every Bogart I've seen, and this is one of his best, but Bacall stole this show. The sexiest "side-eye" ever, and that attitude. No wonder Bogie fell for her in real life. Hoagy Carmichael was a kick as well.
    Good movie. He and "Baby" made only four movies together: To Have and Have Not (1944), The Big Sleep (1946), Dark Passage (1947), and Key Largo (1948). They're all really good but I'd probably pick Key Largo as my favorite because... Edward G Robinson.

    To Have and Have Not has one of the greatest lines of any movie, ever, when Bacall catches Bogey holding the woman after she passes out from the ether: "what are you trying to do, guess her weight?" What a great, snarky line.

    The Big Sleep has a wonderfully convoluted plot. So convoluted, in fact, that even the author, Raymond Chandler, didn't know who committed one murder.

    It's been a really long time since I've seen Dark Passage but from what I recall, it's not up to the level of the others. One thing it had going for it, that was revolutionary for the time, was the director put the viewer into a first person perspective of the protagonist, so you don't even see Bogey until half-way through the movie. All you hear is his voice. I'm not entirely sure it works, tho.
    If God wanted us to listen to audio books, She wouldn't have given us eyes to watch TV. - Gene Belcher

  18. #3243
    To Have and Have Not also has the legendary Bacall line, "You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and blow."

    Watched the splendid Edward G. Robinson/Orson Welles/Loretta Young movie "The Stranger" last night. I don't know how many times I've seen it, but I'll watch it again all the way through every time. Orson Welles' death on the clocktower is one of the great villain endings.
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

    Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/

  19. #3244
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Well, I'll definitely watch and see which side I come in on it.
    I did watch it and found it quite good. The ending could have been better, like Barry stated. Still a solid 3-1/2 stars. Some of the storyline got a bit choppy. The movie hosts pointed out that, sometimes, with movies like this, they're edited for pace and not necessarily for logic. I agree.

    Jane Greer was pretty hot, too. Kirk Douglas didn't bother me at all, but I know you're not a fan of him in general.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

  20. #3245
    Quote Originally Posted by headcrash View Post
    I saw "To Have And Have Not" for the first time today. I've loved every Bogart I've seen, and this is one of his best, but Bacall stole this show. The sexiest "side-eye" ever, and that attitude. No wonder Bogie fell for her in real life. Hoagy Carmichael was a kick as well.
    If you get the chance check out 1950's The Breaking Point starring John Garfield. It comes from the same Hemmingway source material as To Have And Have Not but while there are vague similarities it is a totally different movie , from plot lines to feel. Hemmingway himself prefered The Breaking Point as it was a more faithful adaptation. Michael Curtiz directed. It's hard edged and fast moving , an excellent film.
    This takes nothing away from the Bogeyy / Bacal version. That one succeeds mainly because of the star power of the leads. Walter Brennen just adds to the mix.
    I really like both films , for different reasons. I always pause to watch either when they're on.

  21. #3246
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    I would have replaced Burt Lancaster in Birdman Of Alcatraz with Micky Rooney.
    Yuck yuck.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  22. #3247
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Shrimp Man of Alcatraz
    I'll let these things pass.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  23. #3248
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    Now, this afternoon is Fail Safe, with Bette Davis. Henry Fonda turns in a workman like performance as president.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  24. #3249
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    Hal, I've always liked Dark Passage. When I saw it as a kid I was amazed at how it was shot. A voice without a body. Never saw that idea before.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  25. #3250
    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Now, this afternoon is Fail Safe, with Bette Davis. Henry Fonda turns in a workman like performance as president.
    How did I miss that on the schedule? A really cool flick, even though Miss Davis looks too much like Tony Nelson.
    "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

    - Dr. Winston O'Boogie

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