Ray W. singles out Mike R. for 'disbanding' Genesis!

[aith01]

Could he have saved ATTWT and Duke also?

Imo, no because they didn't need to be saved. Neither did CAS.

+1

[aith01]

Everything about that song is great.

Yep, absolutely *love* "You Might Recall".

Makes me very happy to see others here love this song as well.

The lyrical content is a bit hokey, but that tune is a great example of what we were talking about above. Two seemingly simple riffs turned into a great song!

Now I get what you were talking about before, regarding chords and riffs. I had misunderstood before; my apologies.

You're right, the pieces themselves appear simple, but when put together the way they were used made for a great track.

[JJ88]

Neither did CAS.

CAS certainly did, and Hackett wouldn't have helped. Too much about CAS is simply not good enough IMHO- too many average songs and poor arranging/production choices.

[Trane]

Phil Collins ruined Mike & The Mechanics.

Sour grapes. Money makes people stupid.

... though I'm not sre Wilson lives in the Bahamas

Tony Banks does seem to act like a child at times regarding the band's history. He's a bit of a brat.

True, but we're talking about Rutherford, here

He certainly can be a brat. But CAS was pretty bad and he was somewhat responsible for that. Personally, I'm glad that 1). they killed it, and 2) they pretend like it never happened.

CAS was certainly better than Ababcrap, Invisible Crap, We Can't Crap, that's for sure... and if it wasn't for Shapes' A-side , it would bze better than that one too.

So Mike Rutherford ruined Phil Collins ruining of Genesis?

certainly looks that wau, doesn't it?

^Wilson said Banks was the one member who went over to see him where he lived after the split, to check up on him. Banks does tend to get an undeserved bad rap.



It can't possibly be their fourth best selling when it charted lower in the US than anything they'd done in nearly 25 years.

A 2nd album might have been better than CAS, but it would have flopped IMHO. I don't think many of the curious would have bothered coming back. They would have been around where Yes is now if they'd have carried on, I think.

Well Banks wanted to continue, right, so he probably approached him to see if it was feasible???

I also doubt that CAS sold so much

[JJ88]

^'Probably' not.

[LeFrog]

Papa He Said
Banjo Man
Phret
7/8
Run Out Of Time
Anything Now
Sign Your Life Away

Those were officially released but there's also Nowhere Else To Turn which is also from the CAS sessions but only available on bootlegs.

[Progatron]

Those were officially released but there's also Nowhere Else To Turn which is also from the CAS sessions but only available on bootlegs.

Ahhh that's right, I had forgotten about that one as I only have it as an mp3.

[Flightwave]

:We Can't Crap....

This made me LOL all morning.

[Flightwave]

The b-side "Run Out of Time" reminds me of a James Bond film song.

[aith01]

Well Banks wanted to continue, right, so he probably approached him to see if it was feasible???

That's not what he was talking about, and the time frame doesn't make sense. Tony and Ray have never even mentioned the idea of the two of them continuing on together musically.

[JJ88]

^It was shit-stirring. No more, no less. Tony Banks just acted like a decent human being- something Wilson has himself said- and still gets raked over the coals on here, to continue the 'villain' narrative.

The only time I've felt that way with Banks was that Together And Apart documentary...but nothing was right about that IMHO.

[bill g]

Was hoping you would join the discussion, Bill. Your insight is always welcome.

Wow thank you. Kind of you to say!

[aith01]

[...] Tony Banks just acted like a decent human being- something Wilson has himself said- and still gets raked over the coals on here, to continue the 'villain' narrative.

The only time I've felt that way with Banks was that Together And Apart documentary...but nothing was right about that IMHO.

I still haven't seen that documentary. Heard so many negative things about it, I couldn't bring myself to watch. Though from the sound of it, the band had much less to do with the final product than the filmmakers/editors/etc. A missed opportunity, I guess...

[zumacraig]

Makes me very happy to see others here love this song as well.




Now I get what you were talking about before, regarding chords and riffs. I had misunderstood before; my apologies.

You're right, the pieces themselves appear simple, but when put together the way they were used made for a great track.

No worries. Yes, they were masters at it. Man On the Corner is basically 4 chords, but when they play it, it's a masterpiece. When i play those chords..meh. Its amazing!

[Facelift]

CAS was certainly better than Ababcrap, Invisible Crap, We Can't Crap, that's for sure... and if it wasn't for Shapes' A-side , it would bze better than that one too.

So you like CAS better than all of those albums. OK, but I would think that you would be in a pretty small minority. Personally, I think Abacab was better than the majority of the pre Abacab albums. That probably puts me in a similarly small minority.

[Kcrimso]

So you like CAS better than all of those albums. OK, but I would think that you would be in a pretty small minority. Personally, I think Abacab was better than the majority of the pre Abacab albums. That probably puts me in a similarly small minority.

Well, I at least agree with you. About half of Abacab is very good.

[Trane]

So you like CAS better than all of those albums. OK, but I would think that you would be in a pretty small minority. Personally, I think Abacab was better than the majority of the pre Abacab albums. That probably puts me in a similarly small minority.

Well, I at least agree with you. About half of Abacab is very good.

Well, when I heard CAS, the prior Genesis album it made me think of was Abacab... but CAS didn't have all of that pure-pop.

[aith01]

Well, when I heard CAS, the prior Genesis album it made me think of was Abacab... but CAS didn't have all of that pure-pop.

The "pure-pop" was one reason why some people (myself included) liked Abacab.

[bill g]

So you like CAS better than all of those albums. OK, but I would think that you would be in a pretty small minority. Personally, I think Abacab was better than the majority of the pre Abacab albums. That probably puts me in a similarly small minority.

I guess I'm in the same 2 minorities too. Well, with 'Abacab', there was 'Me & Sarah Jane' which I think is brilliant, and 'Keep It Dark' I enjoy. I finally grew to actually like the title track, though it took years. At least it has an instrumental break. Really, I don't dislike any of those albums, even 'We Can't Dance', which is my least favorite in their catalog, still has some decent material. The only tracks that do nothing for me being 'I Can't Dance' and 'Never A Time'. But, yeah, I like CAS better than the Abacab-We Cant Dance run. It has a strong, consistent mood to it that one either feels, or doesn't feel. To those who relate to the mood that is there, the ones who outright say it's a poor album just look ignorant. Which is probably true of a lot of albums.

[JJ88]

Well, when I heard CAS, the prior Genesis album it made me think of was Abacab... but CAS didn't have all of that pure-pop.

I just don't get this. Things like 'Shipwrecked' and 'If That's What You Need' are bland Adult Contemporary ballads, worse than all of Genesis' 80s/90s singles to my ears.

Songs I like are the title track, 'Uncertain Weather', 'Alien Afternoon' (the second half really), 'The Dividing Line' and 'There Must Be Some Other Way'. I would say those are worthy of the Genesis name and retain some of the old magic. 'Not About Us' is about the best of the rest.

[the winter tree]

One much under-rated gem on CAS is the final song "One Man's Fool". I seem to be one of the few who think it is a really great song.

[aith01]

I just don't get this. Things like 'Shipwrecked' and 'If That's What You Need' are bland Adult Contemporary ballads, worse than all of Genesis' 80s/90s singles to my ears.

Songs I like are the title track, 'Uncertain Weather', 'Alien Afternoon' (the second half really), 'The Dividing Line' and 'There Must Be Some Other Way'. I would say those are worthy of the Genesis name and retain some of the old magic. 'Not About Us' is about the best of the rest.

Totally agree with you.

I also like One Man's Fool, mainly for the second half.

[Interstellar]

I also think CAS has a special, interesting mood that is well reflected in the artwork (blue lights in the darkness).
Ray Wilson's voice contributes to that mood and I can see why they chose him over David Longdon (although I would have loved to hear him in Genesis), because he carries that dark vibe.
Tony Banks' keyboards sound choices are questionable (all the "horns" sounds in particular), but his textures also contribute greatly to that mood (on the title track, on the intro of "Alien Afternoon", on the verses of "There Must Be Some Other Way" for instance).