Brave, Afraid of Sunlight, Season's End. Next, everything fucking thing else. Can't wait for the new one.
Brave, Afraid of Sunlight, Season's End. Next, everything fucking thing else. Can't wait for the new one.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Afraid Of Sunlight and Marbles are both good presentations of the Hogarth era imho. They are diverse and quite balanced. AOS is much more concise, and feels more intense to me (especially the second half, which I still find incredible). Marbles takes its time and may feel drawn out or too slow to some people, but it's part of its charm imho.
I tend to prefer Hogarth's vocal delivery as it was in the 80s and 90s (less mumbling and less falsetto), but I still connect easily with his voice, which of course makes things easier.
It's always tempting to say 'go for the earlier albums' in a band's career, when they're relatively young and hungry, and I'd say this is the case for Marillion based on my own experience.
Perhaps it was because the first 6 or 7 H albums were produced under the 'record contract' model, but they definitely sound more focussed and complete as albums. Once the crowd-funding model kicked in, I feel it offered the band a bit too much slack and as a result it sounded like 'let's just throw any old filler on', with each successive album having less outstanding tracks.
Sounds was a partial return to form with only one indulgent overstretched track, but even then, H's incessant mumbling has become a real turn-off for me. The man has a voice and he can sing but he wastes it on indulgent and incoherent mumbling on so many of the more recent tracks.
I kinda get the feeling the band were a bit more disciplined in the Seasons - Sunlight period, and I don't think it got in the way of artistic creativity - they produced some of their best material.
I might be out on a limb with this view but believe me, I've bought every album and played them again and again to get into the later stuff, but ultimately for me from Marbles onward it's a case of a handful of truly great songs bogged down by too much rambling mumbling fluff.
^I think there has sometimes been a sense of indulgence since they went independent, which manifests itself in different ways.
Funnily enough, the double Marbles doesn't suffer from this as much, to me- it has a much more relaxed feel (maybe save for the electronic programmed beats on 'She's Gone' which made me cringe and still do!). But with albums like This Strange Engine, .com, Anoraknophobia etc., there's sometimes a sense that they are trying too hard to be taken seriously as a 'current' group.
And the other occasional drawback is dragging out basic ideas too long, as I felt was a problem on Sounds That Can't Be Made. (Although I need to give that another listen.)
I really admire the way they still play good venues by themselves, without ever doing the '80s nostalgia' thing- they play little from the Fish era. They remain a very strong live act. But I would also concede that their EMI work was their best. IMHO.
Last edited by JJ88; 06-06-2016 at 07:44 AM.
Recommendation is to start with Marbles (great start to finish, including the interludes), then Afraid of Sunlight. Proceed from there.
I agree - I seem to recall that they were quite vocal about not being considered prog during that period and almost went out of their way to distance themselves from 'the hobbit brigade', but I think it might also have fired them up creatively.
These days they seem to be more settled in a comfort zone that panders to their loyal fans who will automatically pay upfront while the album is being written. Having said that, Gaza was a bold move, musically and lyrically, so perhaps there's still some fuel in the can yet.
While they might irritate me with their current studio output, you're right to point out their credentials as a live band, although I think they may have mellowed a little and increased the Fish quota in their sets (or maybe that's just for the Scottish gig on each tour
Valen said:
<<Sounds was a partial return to form with only one indulgent overstretched track, but even then, H's incessant mumbling has become a real turn-off for me. The man has a voice and he can sing but he wastes it on indulgent and incoherent mumbling on so many of the more recent tracks.>>
I'm curious to hear what you think is the overstretched track. I'm guessing Montreal or Sky Above The Rain, but IMO those tracks are the best on the album. The only track I'm not crazy about is Pour My Love - the melody and lyrics just don't quite do it for me. The title track lacks a little for me, but has good parts.
Again, all subjective. I don't hear the mumbling, and as for being indulgent, that's the point of their being independent. They definitely are indulgent, and it's with a purpose. Never a 100% success, but for me closer than many other bands.
Yup - it was Montreal. I appreciate it was a paen to their Canadian fans, but it dragged on too long and the lyrics were a bit banal.
I agree with your point about them being independent. It's paradoxical really, because if they were tied to a record contract they wouldn't feel so free to be creative, but at the same time, with no one cracking the whip, I do think they push the patience of the listener if you're not a hard core fan. I do think they'd benefit from some outside criticism in the mix-down stage.
Then again, you could say the same about the likes of The Flower Kings, and they're on an established label......
I guess it's horses for courses, but I just find indulgent musical rambling a chore to listen to these days.
Seasons End and Holidays in Eden - then Afraid of Sunlight. Not really bothered after that - can't get into Brave at all.
I don't really see Montreal as "a paen to their Canadian fans," but a description of what it was like arriving in and being in Montreal. So a paen to Montreal. I kind of wonder if the song had been "Paris," or "Amsterdam" or whatever if it would have been received differently. Some people seemed to react as though the song was written for the Montreal fans, but I don't see it that way. I find the relaxed melodies so enjoyable. I can imagine lazing in a hotel room watching that Leonard Cohen concert on the TV, feeling connected with home, etc. It's a mellow song that needs to stretch out. I think some Marillion fans (I don't mean anyone on this thread necessarily) who have a problem with the H era are a bit impatient, and have sort of short attention spans, or at least like music that's mostly quick moving and gets things over with fairly quickly. One of the best Marillion shows I've seen was at their 1995 weekend in Minehead, England on the Sunday, where they played a set of all mellow songs (thing like One Fine Day, Born to Run - not the Sprinsteen song!, etc.). It was excellent. But not for everyone I suppose.
Also, are there other bands that you think would be ill advised not to try to satisfy "hard core fans?" Marillion has said in the past that they need to satisfy themselves first, and hope the fans are along for the ride, which seems like a good idea in the long run, but IMO if they come up with something that satisfies their "hard core fan" that seems like it can only be a good thing. I don't really care what fans who are less than "hard core" think. Not sure what they would be - "average fans?"
Anyway, your comments are interesting and thoughtful. I guess I'm lucky - I love Marillion, and I'd say about 90-95% of everything they've done really works for me.
Switching gears a bit: Progatron, I agree with you about Interior Lulu on Less Is More - that's a great version, and man does the very end pay off! And it features a rare "worthwhile" use of a rainstick at the very end too! Less Is More is a great album - I also love the version of Wrapped Up In Time on that.
Last edited by JKL2000; 06-06-2016 at 12:36 PM.
I have never understood why (almost) nobody likes Anoraknophobia. Great songs with good production. It's definitely among my top five Hogarth era Marillion albums.
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
^That one has not aged well for me. It has several minimal ideas stretched out too long ('When I Meet God', 'Fruit Of The Wild Rose', 'Ifmyheartwereaball...') and some minor songs ('Map Of The World', 'Separated Out'). Only 'Quartz' and '...21st Century' have lasted for me.
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
Anoraknophobia has some fantastic tracks ("21st. Century", "Quartz", "Between You And Me"), some reasonably good tracks ("If My Heart...", "Separated Out", "Fruit Of The Wild Rose"), and two that I just can't come to grips with (the aforementioned "Map Of The World", and "When I Meet God"). Removing those two tracks and adding in the beautiful "Number One" makes it a rather strong album IMO.
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Love Anoraknophobia!
Well, my personal favourites are Seasons End, Happiness Is The Road (both discs) & Marbles. If you're not completely into Hogarth, I would stay away from Sounds That Can't Be Made (I don't know why, but it's my least favourite Marillion album out there so far, too stretched out and slow imho), Radiation & Marillion.com (while I do like Radiation and Marillion.com, but I know some of my friends aren't fond of it).
Well good to see some love for Anoraknophobia!
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
Interesting. I assume it's fairly complicated and has many parts.
I'm intrigued by what I imagine their songwriting process is. They seem to have a lot of restraint in using basic ideas instead of going for complicated. Rothery comes up with a little riff or progression. Maybe a keys riff. I like the idea of them building songs. I'd love to be in a band like that.
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