And then there were three guys left in Genesis: Rate their albums.

[noisynoise]

Duke - perfect in my mind!, never tire of it
ATTW3 - great throughout, but I have to be in the mood for it
Shapes - Side 1 great, really like Silver Rainbow and It's Gonna get Better
Abacab - I could do without the horns, kind of ruins the mood (although love the horns on Phil's solo output)
IT - loved it when it came out, didn't age well though
WCD - needs serious curation to squeeze out a decent listen, and omitting On the Shoreline was a huge mistake.

While we're not including CAS, per the OP, I'd place it below Abacab. It really sounds unfinished, and not having Nick D' drum and sing throughout I think was a missed opportunity.

[syncopatico]

I never knew MR played drums on Who Dunnit live! That tour is the only time I ever saw Genesis live, but I was way back in the Carrier Dome in Syracuse, and as I recall there were no screens. I was basically just watching the light show.

and he used to play it on Phil's (open) left-handed kit!
On the Abacab tour, during the band intros segment, Phil used to mention how "the band had THREE drummers".
speaking of drummers, I prefer most of the later material live because of three words: Chester Fuckin' Thompson!

[Trane]

1. Duke
2. And Then There Were Three



3. Genesis (Shapes) Side 1, of course
4. Calling All Stations
































































5. Abacab

6b. Genesis (Shapes) Side 2, of course
6a. We Can't Dance
6. invisible Touch

[zravkapt]

Smallcreep's Day
A Curious Feeling
Face Value

[Mike D]

'Congo' has one of the worst fade-outs I've ever heard. I don't think there really was an obvious hit single on CAS; I suspect they may have held out hope for some of the songs like 'Shipwrecked', but this was like an 80s Mike and the Mechanics track and times had moved on. 'Not About Us' is the best of the more 'commercial' tracks, but it doesn't sound like a hit and it wasn't.

I do really like a few songs on it. The title track (save another dreadful fade), 'Uncertain Weather', 'The Dividing Line' (although something is missing from the instrumental section), 'There Must Be Some Other Way' and the 2nd half of 'Alien Afternoon' definitely have a classic Genesis feel to me. It's a shame about the rest of it. This is also not a great album for Tony Banks' keyboard sound choices IMHO.

I agree with you on Banks sound choices on 'Calling All Stations'.

I recall a Tony Banks interview from, if I remember correctly (I probably don't) the late '80's/early '90s. He talked about using the preset sounds of the popular keyboards of the day and how he was happy with the results he got when composing for Genesis.

I'm with him on that for the '80s Genesis material because that approach obviously worked well for their hits of that time. However, I think his sound choices on 'Calling All Stations' was a big problem and it's one of the main reasons why I don't like that album. Banks just didn't seem to move on from the '80s, mostly sonically but also compositionally.

I would like to have heard new Genesis material for the 'Calling' album composed on piano and organ. Or, something completely sonically different.

[yamishogun]

　
I would like to have heard new Genesis material for the 'Calling' album composed on piano and organ. Or, something completely sonically different.

Of course, no band does this, especially successful ones.

[Trane]

Smallcreep's Day
A Curious Feeling
Face Value

I'd say I place the first two behind ATTWT & Duke, but ahead of Shapes (the whole album) and FV behind Shapes and CAS but ahead of Abacrap.

Both ACF and ASCD seem to be made from leftovers from Duke sessions ... or at least done in the aftermath of it

The rest of their solo discography doesn't interest me in the least manner anymore.



Didn't we do this thread a few months back (same with Yes and Tull, and ELP??

[Progatron]

Both ACF and ASCD seem to be made from leftovers from Duke sessions ... or at least done in the aftermath of it

I know you made a point of italicizing seem, but in the off chance you don't know, those albums were both written and recorded before Duke was even started. If there were leftovers, they would have been from the ATTWT sessions (such as "From The Undertow", for example).

Meanwhile Phil was working on Product (and Do They Hurt?) with Brand X, and writing FV.... once all of this stuff was out of everyone's systems, they reconvened for Duke, and I think it had a fresher sound as a result.

[Mike D]

Of course, no band does this, especially successful ones.

I don't know about that. Have you ever listened to Radiohead?

Please note that when I say "something completely sonically different", I'm referring to exploring new sounds that the band in question hasn't used before. The best example I can cite is the sound development Radiohead underwent between 'Ok Computer' and 'Kid A'.

Night and day. As was 'The Bends' to 'Ok Computer'. Genesis could have used this type of adventurous experimentation to re-invent themselves in the '90's, but they didn't.

Putting out a half-finished demo as an album is the other main problem I have with 'Calling All Stations'. I say this as a long-time Genesis fan. I just don't think this album contributed positively to their legacy, though it does have a moment or two that I like.

[Trane]

I know you made a point of italicizing seem, but in the off chance you don't know, those albums were both written and recorded before Duke was even started. If there were leftovers, they would have been from the ATTWT sessions (such as "From The Undertow", for example).

I did know (though I'm not sure SCD was released before Duke (but ACF certainly was)

What I did mean is that indeed there is some links to ATTWT (as you point out), but the general "sonics" of those two solo albums and Duke are fairly similar, as if recorded and produced at the same place and by the same person.

[Progatron]

I'm not sure SCD was released before Duke

It was, but only by a month!

the general "sonics" of those two solo albums and Duke are fairly similar, as if recorded and produced at the same place and by the same person.

Well, you're right on the money there! All three albums were produced by Dave Hentschel and recorded in Polar Studios, Stockholm...

[Trane]

It was, but only by a month!



Well, you're right on the money there! All three albums were produced by Dave Hentschel and recorded in Polar Studios, Stockholm...

Thanks... Didn't know for sure on all three counts.

[happytheman]

Easy to look at these in hindsight.. being there when they were released was a whole different matter.. ATTWT I felt was a strong effort considering Steve had left.. and like a lot of albums released pre-internet I knew very little info regarding the line up change.. I bought the EP with Match of the Day/Spot the Pigeon/Inside Out and could see where they were heading. Duke came out of nowhere and to this day I think it's the strongest effort after Steve left. ABACAB puzzled me upon first listening, Me and Sarah Jane still my favorite cut on that release.. but again this release in hindsight was a necessity in order for Genesis to remain a viable commercial entity.. Which is why when I first heard Mama on the radio it was obvious who it was.. I only had Shapes on cassette thus first side got more play than second side. Kinda didn't go for next two releases something about "overplay" from both albums.. I didn't need to buy either simply because if you listened to the radio you heard both repeatedly! I know I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed Calling all Stations.. go figure..

[Splicer]

I remember being quite disappointed on my first listen to We Can't Dance. I'd heard "No Son of Mine" on the radio and liked it a lot. The rest of the album, however, just did not give me any sort of thrill at all. Even my excitement about having a "long" song on the record, the rather depressing "Fading Lights" (typical Banks my-career-is-over-and-I'm-old melancholy there), was abated after listening to it. It simply didn't go anywhere. A somewhat dull keyboard solo from Tony and lousy keyboard choices (as have been mentioned before) except for one moment -- that effect he gets that sounds a lot like the metal screeching of a train as it rounds a bend. It just isn't enough to make me think that song is anything but mediocre. I will say that the live version of "Driving The Last Spike" is quite superior to the album version. More energy and emotion in Phil's singing.

Calling All Stations was simply a sad letdown. The fadeouts really pissed me off and reminded me of the stuff on ATTWT that's faded out rather than developed further. Other than "One Man's Fool", for me the best track on the album, and "There Must Be Some Other Way", the album is mediocre at best. Few melodies if any stand out at all which is a disaster when it comes to Genesis.

[ca1ore]

The 'measure' for me is whether they still get played or not. Of the studio albums, And Then There Were Three, Spot the Pigeon, Duke and Driving the Last Spike (from WCD) still get regular rotation, the others almost never. Of the live albums, TSL (FSL actually) gets regular play as does the Old Medley from the Longs/Shorts. Latter suffers from a 'flabby' drum sound that really irritates me, so the rest doesn't get much play. Live Over Europe is totally forgettable. So my 'top 4': Three/Four Sides Live, And Then There Were Three, Duke, Spot the Pigeon. The rest .... meh.

[Gizmotron]

The 'measure' for me is whether they still get played or not. Of the studio albums, And Then There Were Three, Spot the Pigeon, Duke and Driving the Last Spike (from WCD) still get regular rotation, the others almost never. Of the live albums, TSL (FSL actually) gets regular play as does the Old Medley from the Longs/Shorts. Latter suffers from a 'flabby' drum sound that really irritates me, so the rest doesn't get much play. Live Over Europe is totally forgettable. So my 'top 4': Three/Four Sides Live, And Then There Were Three, Duke, Spot the Pigeon. The rest .... meh.

Played by whom? By you? Or by radio?

[Facelift]

Played by whom? By you? Or by radio?

I thought he meant "played by him" - I don't know how Spot the Pigeon getting "regular rotation" could fit into any other context.

[Gizmotron]

I thought he meant "played by him" - I don't know how Spot the Pigeon getting "regular rotation" could fit into any other context.

That was my guess as well.

This thread was more interesting (i.e. less combative) than I would have expected. I think most of us understand why these albums provoke contrasting feedback. While I am more of a fan of the band before it became a "triplet," I find something worthwhile on every album.

I don't quite understand the heavy abuse "Calling All Stations" receives (other than the fade-outs which really do not serve the songs at all).

[yamishogun]

I don't quite understand the heavy abuse "Calling All Stations" receives (other than the fade-outs which really do not serve the songs at all).

I just went back to "We Can't Dance" and sure enough nine songs have fade-outs with the exceptions of "Driving The Last Spike, "Living Forever," and "Fading Distant Lights." I don't like the fade-outs on "Calling All Stations" either but that doesn't ruin the record for me.

I also wonder what critics are talking about with respect to it being mostly a demo. I can see where parts could be reworked but a demo?

[JJ88]

Well, there have been a whole lot of songs with fade-outs! The point is that the fade-outs on CAS are appallingly executed. The title track and 'Congo' appear to fade whilst the songs are in a transitional phase, rather than fading as a song appears to be drawing to a conclusion.

As for the demo accusation, listen to the solo section of 'The Dividing Line' with the drums...it feels to me there should be a solo lead line of some kind on that. It sounds very bare. And IMHO the keyboard sounds are well below par throughout...I never had a problem with Banks' sounds on basically every other album they made.

With WCD, I can't be doing with 'Never A Time', 'Way Of The World', 'Tell Me Why' and 'Since I Lost You'. I now skip past all four of these. Other than that, I like it...but that's undeniably quite a few poor songs. It appears they held out hope for 'Never A Time' being a hit as it had the working title of 'BB Hit' (as in 'Big Big')...to me it's about as blandly generic a song as they ever released.

'Hold On My Heart' was the 'Bacharach' one. I do find that a far better song, of its type, than 'Never A Time'.

[Gizmotron]

I just went back to "We Can't Dance" and sure enough nine songs have fade-outs with the exceptions of "Driving The Last Spike, "Living Forever," and "Fading Distant Lights." I don't like the fade-outs on "Calling All Stations" either but that doesn't ruin the record for me.

I also wonder what critics are talking about with respect to it being mostly a demo. I can see where parts could be reworked but a demo?

Well, there are appropriate fade-outs and there are horrible fades-outs. In the case of CAS, they fade out much too soon. And several of the songs probably could have had actual endings that would have given them more character and weight.

As far as the "Demos" criticism, I also don't quite understand. If they are or are not demos, does it matter at all? Some of the best recordings in the world have been "demos." In many cases, the artist's original ideas were shown to be best (when compared to the band versions). Pete Townsend's demos for many Who songs are in my opinion, far better than the band's version. And some people's demos are nothing but a brief sketch; they sound unremarkable when compared to the fully-realized final recordings. If the music sounds good, I don't care if it was assembled in an afternoon or if it took a year in the finest studios. Music is...music. It is one of the few things in this world that can transcend origin and craft. It shouldn't have constraints on it.

[Progatron]

the fade-outs on CAS are appallingly executed. The title track and 'Congo' appear to fade whilst the songs are in a transitional phase, rather than fading as a song appears to be drawing to a conclusion.

And in the case of the title track, the fadeout is about 40 seconds long. Who got their fingers on the fader with that much time remaining??

With WCD, I can't be doing with 'Never A Time', 'Way Of The World', 'Tell Me Why' and 'Since I Lost You'. I now skip past all four of these. Other than that, I like it...but that's undeniably quite a few poor songs. It appears they held out hope for 'Never A Time' being a hit as it had the working title of 'BB Hit' (as in 'Big Big')...to me it's about as blandly generic a song as they ever released.

If memory serves, "BB Hit" referred to Burt Bacharach because the song reminded them of him. Or am I thinking of a different song from that album? It's hazy now. Anyway, I couldn't agree more about the four tracks you cite as the weak ones. "Since I Lost You" is a particularly bad song for them (I know it was about Clapton's son, but still...) As for "Tell Me Why", that loses further points for being the song that Rutherford "dusted off the Rickenbacker" for. There was a buzz about the album for that specific reason, and THAT was the resulting track. Talk about a disappointment. I like the rest of the album a fair bit beyond those four tracks. Axe those, throw in "On The Shoreline" (as the leadoff track), and you've got a much better album IMO.

[Progatron]

^'Hold On My Heart' was the 'Bacharach' one. I do find that a far better song, of its type, than 'Never A Time'.

Ahhh, that's right. Yes, it is a nice song, some lovely chords in it. I always remember lying in bed with a terrible flu, sometime around '91 or '92, and listening to that album, and "Hold On My Heart" was actually quite soothing and made me feel better. Others might find that song has the opposite effect, but I don't mind it.

[noisynoise]

Ahhh, that's right. Yes, it is a nice song, some lovely chords in it. I always remember lying in bed with a terrible flu, sometime around '91 or '92, and listening to that album, and "Hold On My Heart" was actually quite soothing and made me feel better. Others might find that song has the opposite effect, but I don't mind it.

One of their best ballads as a trio, that one.

[ca1ore]

Played by whom? By you? Or by radio?

Yes, sorry, by me.