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Thread: What motivates you to contribute professionally with your music?

  1. #1

    What motivates you to contribute professionally with your music?

    On the topic of staying professional in one's music, what motivates you to keep working at your best at your music, in the service of others?

  2. #2
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Um, Money? Which is why I'm an amateur - at least for the foreseeable future. Professional musicians are harder and harder to find, because there just isnt that much professionalism in professional musicianship anymore - my smallest penny's worth. I am also a database specialist, and I do better at that than I ever did as a musician.

    By "Contributing" I'm guessing you mean putting your talent out for the public to sample - or allowing music to flow from you to the general public. - I think that "contribution" is only being held up by those who already have established a following - prior to say, 2010. I just dont see much promise for more contributions to be made in the future. I will be listening, wallet in hand for something new to reach my ears, but its not even 2010 any more is it?

    I still produce music my own original material. But its for my own ears and not to be considered a "contribution" by any means.

  3. #3
    Good points, Yodelgoat.

    I guess some musicians here are either not quite motivated to contribute any ideas and maybe looking for more input. I find motivation to be professional is in some way also connected to the idea that I could make money from the music, which means, that I can allot more of my work day to it, without feeling like I'm getting behind on bills. There is the sense of the spirituality of doing one's art, which is a big plus. I use writing music like writing poetry as a ritualistic way of being in my best thoughts and feelings. That ultimately has what has kept me going all these years.

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    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    There is the sense of the spirituality of doing one's art, which is a big plus. I use writing music like writing poetry as a ritualistic way of being in my best thoughts and feelings. That ultimately has what has kept me going all these years.
    Good on you! This is also exactly how I am as well. I create music all the time, but like Yodelgoat, I mostly do it for my own edification. I've released a bit on bandcamp - mostly Native American flute stuff - and have tons of videos of myself playing NAF on YouTube, but I'm first and foremost a teacher who has also found the making of videos and music albums to be personally satisfying, not to mention a kind of spiritual experience, as you said. Mind you, it would be great to earn a living from my music, but I'm under no illusions there. I've also played guitar for over 40 years and have been getting into that quite a bit these days, and I do want to release some of my music on that instrument. I've resisted until now because, well, EVERYONE plays guitar, and there's already such a glut of guitar music out there. I'll end up doing it anyway, though. For the most part, I have to say that I'm happy to do what I do, and that is primarily what motivates me to keep on doing it to the best of my abilities.
    Last edited by Koreabruce; 05-12-2016 at 07:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    On the topic of staying professional in one's music, what motivates you to keep working at your best at your music, in the service of others?
    A personal standard to be the absolute best I can be.

  6. #6
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    My compositions have been at an ebb lately, as I really don't have anywhere to do the recording just yet. I play out in a copy band, simply to [1] keep my chops in shape, and [2] I do enjoy playing when the crowd (when there is one) gets into it.

    I also play in an original rock band, but the other guitarist does most of the writing. I've brought some songs in, but they simply can't play them. Depressing, really, but they're friends, so I hang out and let the Hamer scream every now'n'then...
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  7. #7
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    I use writing music like writing poetry as a ritualistic way of being in my best thoughts and feelings. That ultimately has what has kept me going all these years.
    I think you've nailed it with that line. The Music I cannot stop writing does take me to my happy place like nothing else can.

  8. #8
    I write music, because I have a lot of ideas and always get inspiration for new stuff. I do my best to record it the best possible way, so if it's critisized, I've done everything in my power to prevent this.

  9. #9
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    But how do you avoid criticism? I do it by not releasing anything. I dont know how to avoid it. I think we do too much griping about people who write music. Its always easy to Sh*t where we eat. Hence we wind up eating far less than we sh*t.

    Actually, its not really the criticism that bugs me. Its the assumption that someones art is yours for free, so that an artist' work has no value whatsoever - unless its Steve Wilson or some other icon.

    So choosing the sidelines was an easy one to make.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    But how do you avoid criticism? I do it by not releasing anything. I dont know how to avoid it. I think we do too much griping about people who write music. Its always easy to Sh*t where we eat. Hence we wind up eating far less than we sh*t.

    Actually, its not really the criticism that bugs me. Its the assumption that someones art is yours for free, so that an artist' work has no value whatsoever - unless its Steve Wilson or some other icon.

    So choosing the sidelines was an easy one to make.
    I don't mind critisism. I want my music out in the public and hope for some positive critisism. I just want to avoid negative critisism on points I'm able to prevent it, like recording-quality. I want to know I have done the best I can. No, I don't have a professional recording-studio and I don't play any instruments, so in the end it's the composition that counts, but I want to record it as good as possible.

    The idea the people consider music should be for free, unless it is some established artist, bothers me as well. But if you want people to play your music, you have to pay them, which makes that part even harder.

  11. #11
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    I don't mind critisism. I want my music out in the public and hope for some positive critisism. I just want to avoid negative critisism on points I'm able to prevent it, like recording-quality. I want to know I have done the best I can.
    This makes sense to me. Largely, I play and make music for my own enjoyment. But a part of that enjoyment is at least occasionally having people hear it. And if they're going to hear it, you want it to be as "professionally' rendered as possible, whether live or on a recording, so at least that doesn't detract from people's perceptions. So you do the best you can with that given your access to a studio or recording software, or your ability to effectively use said software, or you practice hard and hope to play well live. I think you also get the self-satisfaction of having played well or recorded something that sounds good, whether masses of people will hear it or not.

    As far as the monetary aspect, I'm in a position where the only financial gain I need on our music is to offset direct production costs of CDs, or costs associated with doing a gig. We've been fortunate that all our CD releases (two album releases with one reissue) have broken even on those direct costs. So it still pays for us to do that, as we like to have the CD and obviously many of our fans to as well. We sold about 50 CDs at Prog Day last year, which as awesome and shows there is still a small market for CDs, particularly among heavy fans of the style at live events. So it pays to still do the CD release, and if you're going to do it, best do it as professionally as possible given your means.

    It does bother me that some take our music without paying, but not enough to keep me on the sidelines.

    Bill

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    This makes sense to me. Largely, I play and make music for my own enjoyment. But a part of that enjoyment is at least occasionally having people hear it. And if they're going to hear it, you want it to be as "professionally' rendered as possible, whether live or on a recording, so at least that doesn't detract from people's perceptions. So you do the best you can with that given your access to a studio or recording software, or your ability to effectively use said software, or you practice hard and hope to play well live. I think you also get the self-satisfaction of having played well or recorded something that sounds good, whether masses of people will hear it or not.

    As far as the monetary aspect, I'm in a position where the only financial gain I need on our music is to offset direct production costs of CDs, or costs associated with doing a gig. We've been fortunate that all our CD releases (two album releases with one reissue) have broken even on those direct costs. So it still pays for us to do that, as we like to have the CD and obviously many of our fans to as well. We sold about 50 CDs at Prog Day last year, which as awesome and shows there is still a small market for CDs, particularly among heavy fans of the style at live events. So it pays to still do the CD release, and if you're going to do it, best do it as professionally as possible given your means.

    It does bother me that some take our music without paying, but not enough to keep me on the sidelines.

    Bill
    I prefer being heard and not paid, than not being heard at all. Positive reactions would also be some sort of reward.

  13. #13
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    It does bother me that some take our music without paying, but not enough to keep me on the sidelines.

    Bill
    For me it isnt just the freeloaders. I gave away a lot units, because it isnt about money - Its the Russians, China - Its Pirate bay, its the Label I was signed to. The label just simply took the music sold as much as they could, and then never paid me. I have no idea how many units were sold, but I gave them 4500, and they sold me back the last 400 (yes, I had to pay them $$$ to get my own CD's back) I was never paid for a single digital download, which is completely absurd, as they at least acknowledged the sale of a few hundred of the CD's they sold- profits for which, was of course, was eaten up by "expenses". I was warned about distributing through a label, and I did it anyway. It was beyond bad judgement on my part.

    So yeah I have issues and I doubt I can ever officially Release music, just because it was such a bad move on my part. Manufacturing a CD - I actually manufactured the CD in 2005, I signed a distribution contract with the label in 2008 - I had already sold a couple hundred copies on my own. This was just supposed to expand my market. It may have, but I never found out. I will never know just how many wound up in collections, and how many just would up in a dumpster.

    All the work involved with the manufacturing and artwork etc... the details of it all were quite complex. Signing with a label turned out to be such a disappointment. After a couple years it was clear that it wasnt going to be what I expected, I stopped writing and recording, I stopped everything. and it took a couple of years for me to get over it. Then I realized I dont hate creating music - I just despise the business side of it all - or at least my inability to spot a scam. I've been told that I should just let someone else handle the business - Well, thats what I did with the label, ...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice - I perform Voodoo rituals on a doll that looks like you.
    Last edited by Yodelgoat; 05-31-2016 at 01:49 PM.

  14. #14
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    For me it isnt just the freeloaders. I gave away a lot units, because it isnt about money - Its the Russians, China - Its Pirate bay, its the Label I was signed to. The label just simply took the music sold as much as they could, and then never paid me. I have no idea how many units were sold, but I gave them 4500, and they sold me back the last 400 (yes, I had to pay them $$$ to get my own CD's back) I was never paid for a single digital download, which is completely absurd, as they at least acknowledged the sale of a few hundred of the CD's they sold- profits for which, was of course, was eaten up by "expenses". I was warned about distributing through a label, and I did it anyway. It was beyond bad judgement on my part.

    So yeah I have issues and I doubt I can ever officially Release music, just because it was such a bad move on my part. Manufacturing a CD - I actually manufactured the CD in 2005, I signed a distribution contract with the label in 2008 - I had already sold a couple hundred copies on my own. This was just supposed to expand my market. It may have, but I never found out. I will never know just how many wound up in collections, and how many just would up in a dumpster.

    All the work involved with the manufacturing and artwork etc... the details of it all were quite complex. Signing with a label turned out to be such a disappointment. After a couple years it was clear that it wasnt going to be what I expected, I stopped writing and recording, I stopped everything. and it took a couple of years for me to get over it. Then I realized I dont hate creating music - I just despise the business side of it all - or at least my inability to spot a scam. I've been told that I should just let someone else handle the business - Well, thats what I did with the label, ...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice - I perform Voodoo rituals on a doll that looks like you.
    I can understand how you feel. I'd probably feel differently if I had that kind of experience with the "business." But we handled everything in-house, and it all went smoothly. So I don't have a bad taste in my mouth, but I certainly don't blame you for having one. I can understand how that might be hard to get over, and might cause one to just say, "fuck it."

    With the uploading/downloading, I don't feel I'm particularly alone as all artists are up against this now. It obviously doesn't stop millions from releasing stuff, so why should it stop me? I certainly think it sucks, but I get enough enjoyment, and enough return, from doing what I do that I don't let this stop me. But it's an individual call, and it's understandable someone might feel it's not worth releasing music if it's just going to be appropriated without permission.

    Bill

  15. #15
    A few more thoughts. It's always helpful for me to:

    1 Remember that even very musically great people had problems pleasing all the people all the time
    2 Remember that even very musically great people had problems always feeling good about their own music
    3 Remember that even very musically great people had financial problems
    4 Remember that even very musically great people had problems getting noticed
    5 Remember that even very musically great people had various other problems than those mentioned above

  16. #16
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Please dont take my bad experiences as a sign that I've given up. I have adjusted my expectations, and have decided not to be a part of the business side of things. Someday - if I ever have something that I really feel is worth releasing - That would be because I think that it may actually be something people would want to share - which is really a pretty high bar. I will find a way to let it out. Hopefully by then there will be a way of distribution that will reward the artist.

    The day I picked up my CD from the manufacturer was one of the most memorable days I can recall in my adult life. I felt I really had accomplished something. And even now, when I listen to it. I'm still really inspired by what it was/is. I'm pretty sick of the music, but after a few months, I can appreciate that it was released. But after the experience at the label, I pretty much hated it all. So doing it all right up to the actual distribution, was pretty much a dream come true.

    So thats probably where I'll my stuff. - Up to the actual pressing of the disks.

    I do feel an obligation to share my experience with others so that they may be able to avoid the pitfalls I've encountered. I tend to shudder when I hear about artists, full of hope and faith, moving forward under the current business model, with releasing new material - just what are they hoping for? I want them to manage their expectations. It's very likely I will buy almost anything from upcoming prog artists that pique my interest, but I know that one sale does not a success make. I do feel for the upcoming artist - but it seems like we hear from some, but then they are never heard from. Especially over the last 6 years. I wonder what new music will look like in 4 or 5 years. Maybe something really cool will come along to sweep us all away and we will all start emptying our wallets for it.

  17. #17
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    I don't know, I guess I'm crazy.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  18. #18
    When I'm in the service of others I simply do what I do. It doesn't matter what style of music I play, I will always inject some original playing into it...but that's only because I started on guitar since age 7 and I might be one of those musicians who gracefully sunk to the deeps on the Titanic. I'm ancient fossil. I traveled the road for the most of my life. I had stayed in a dark room , (so to speak), through my childhood and my teen years practicing and getting little or no sleep . My father was a Jazz and Classical guitarist in the 30's and 40's and he took me under his wing turning me into a guitarist that played very complicated music at a very young age. He was a very hard teacher and demanded that I practiced long hours. His brothers played with a Symphony Orchestra and because of the family reputation ...there were a lot of pressures on me in my youth to be impeccable. I did not have a typical childhood not by any means. I wanted to get into a university..but the money was not there. I was 18 , liked something about Rock Music and so I joined the circus instead. At age 19....I ended up in a Glam Rock type of original band that traveled with a crew. We had two managers. One was a girl, one was a guy. They insisted that our faces be made up and I was often mistaken for a girl. The male manager submitted our demo to Warner Brothers Records and they offered us a deal. They wanted to fly us out to L.A., re-record the album, and place us on a three billing tour with major Rock acts of the 70's. Our music was a bit like Progressive Rock and not so much like Glam. I played a mellotron on stage along with guitar and we definitely crossed over into Prog. The female manager fired the male manager and that ended all possibilities of obtaining a record contract with Warner Brothers. The male manager had contacts and he was a Rock Journalist. He designed a lawsuit to ultimately put us under after that little stunt she pulled. That was probably the biggest disappointment of my life. 19 years old is young and I was crushed. It all happened because of jealousy and sex. I was so pissed off at the world of people who had money power control and based a fine opportunity to come my way over jealousy and sex. Bingo..I developed issues.


    I kissed that goodbye and joined several Progressive Rock cover bands in the late 70's and traveled for years. During that time period many Progressive Rock cover bands were making decent money. Five or Six bills a week, sometimes a thousand per member. That kind of cash flow gave Prog cover bands the opportunity to invest in being original Progressive Rock bands. It paid for the studio, a band house for retreat and of course that being a place to practice as well. There were no bills hanging over our heads. Many times the management paid for everything. I had a lot of bad breaks and I grew thick skin so I could continue to travel in the circus and perform for huge audiences until one day...I found myself traveling on a bus and touring the theater circuit. In the early 80's that circuit included artists like Steve Hackett and Renaissance, (to name a few), and I thought it was disgraceful to see these bands being flushed down the toilet or being jacked around. A year before I turned 18, these bands were on television and radio, being promoted and respected and when I hit age 23, they were being shifted down to theaters and promoted much less. That flippin' destroyed me and I had a hard time growing thick skin to deal with the realization. I was a very pissed off young man after that. Musicians all around me from other acts were going on and on about it...saying: "Look what the industry is doing to us and our music!" That was a very strange time to see everyone around me angered by it all. Everything they depended on to express real art form through the media was shattered. Opportunities became less and less over time. After this horrible experience, I developed as a composer and ignored media and it's whole purpose...that was once worthy for the sake of art ..but had let me down.


    That downfall of Prog affected many musicians psychologically and in some cases added a depressing nightmarish reality to their on going problems. Many professional musicians I traveled the road with took it to heart and actually convinced themselves that the music world had no place for them. It was like the dawning of a disliked revelation and we were part of that scene. We had all traveled on that scene for years. Then I witnessed suicides ...although these musicians already had problems of being too sensitive or living in a starstruck bubble. They were Classically trained , but had expectations of getting promotion to back their honest and creative ideas. That was literally taken away from them. They didn't want to go underground like the "Rock In Opposition movement" and they didn't want to sell out. They were trapped. I remember seeing Tom Evans from Badfinger on the scene and then fast forward to '83, '84 and he commits suicide. I was in a dressing room tuning up when Joey Molland's back up band were discussing Evans suicide. The day it happened, I just shook my head in disbelief because I didn't want that energy in my life. I thought the answer then was to continue to compose and block the music business out , short of selling out, pretending it meant nothing to offend me, and continue to invest in myself as an independent artist. I was living in a silly world out of fear that if I didn't tow the line, I'd end up on the streets. I would travel on the bus and stare at the picture of Chi Coltrane on her first album. She was a commercial artist, Pop song writer, that I was falling in love with. I thought she had the answers to my problems and sure enough as it turned out, she was a huge fan of Progressive Rock. As I traveled the road for decades I started reading books to increase my power of escapism. Erik Fromm wrote about ambition being a form of insanity where upon our western society adapted it as a practical way of living one's life. I read books that helped me to channel energies to another place. A fantasy place where these bad experiences became detached from my existence and I became strong willed to survive. I became like a "third eye" observing good and bad in the music business.
    Last edited by Enid; 07-20-2016 at 12:27 AM.

  19. #19
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    aside from the fact that its how i make all of my payment$ ..... there is no such thing as completely learning how to play....it will be a learning experience until the day i depart

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