For the overdubs he should have sung it as "Rael, Imperial Aerosol Man..."
And with Supper's Ready he should have sung "And it's, hello babe who's much younger than me, with your guardian eyes so blue..."
For the overdubs he should have sung it as "Rael, Imperial Aerosol Man..."
And with Supper's Ready he should have sung "And it's, hello babe who's much younger than me, with your guardian eyes so blue..."
It's a pretty stupid prop, which makes it all the more unfortunate.Originally Posted by GuitarGeek
It's especially stupid in the Musical Box shows. But perhaps it's just accurate.
Overdubs have never really bothered me. The 'raw' show is available on boots, so can be found if so desired. There are some obvious performance errors (TB on Cinema Show, for example) that I understand completely why they were fixed.
Not on this box.The track is not even on this box. You know, the topic of the thread.
It's out of print now. At the time of its release, it managed to chart in the UK Top 40 album chart. Album sales hadn't yet hit the floor then, so box sets very rarely did that (the 2nd one, a few years later, did not come close to matching it). So it did well.
As for the 'close to a reunion' argument...the extent of the vocal overdubs should have been noted on the back as it is indeed, as far as the vocals go, more or less a 90s version of The Lamb.
I admit to also being doubly sour on this because when I ordered it around 9/10 years ago I got the 3rd disc in it twice- the 1st disc was mispressed. This was not just a one-off; several replacement copies the shop ordered in were exactly the same. Eventually I did get a good one, only to be confronted with the vocals!
Oh well, I got the 2nd set dirt-cheap.
Last edited by JJ88; 04-11-2017 at 02:01 PM.
That's why I'm so glad and thankful to all bootleggers of the past. Specially the artists like Lampinski and Millard.
That's because they were fixed with overdubs .... you know, the topic of the thread.
There's not inconsequential irony here. Many bands were quite militant about not allowing fans to record their live show, yet in some cases bootlegs have turned out to be the only useful recordings available. Ether because the bands didn't have the foresight to properly record their gigs, or have not bothered to retain the tapes. The Floyd '77 tour stands as a notable example.
In the case of Genesis, there are a number of really good quality boots from shows that the band has chosen not to release, even though multi track tapes exist for many of them. As in all things, of course, there are also a raft of dreadful sounding boots as well.
Listening to Rainbow '73 in SS as I type this. Brilliant!
You don't have Cinema Show included in your 67-75 box?
I suppose it doesn't have Illegal Alien, either.
I actually like hearing Gabriel's modern, superior vocals over the original, even though I get that it's not PURE.
: Good point .... been such a long time since I actually listened to the non-lamb stuff (the full show on the live boxed set is far better for Rainbow, and complete) I'd forgotten that CS wasn't there. Better example, then, of a mistake that was there is the guitar on Hairless Heart.
After reading this thread, the band have gone back in time & left everything intact with no overdubs! FIXED!!
Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!
What? The microphone or the Slipperman costume?
I remember reading it took four people to help him get in and out of the costume. I don't listen to The Lamb very often, so I'm kinda vague here, but i imagine they must have deliberately built the arrangements for the song that precedes Colony Of The Slippermen and the one that follows it in such a fashion that there would be time for him to change in and out of the Slipperman costume onstage. It must have been like putting on and taking off a wetsuit quickly, each time only having a couple minutes to get the job done. And I do agree, that seems a bit Spinal Tap to come up with something like that, which could only be pulled off awkwardly onstage.
I wonder if Peter just drew up the idea for the costumes (or did he have help with that kind of stuff?) and put literally no thought in to what it was going to be like dealing with them once he was onstage. I forget which band member it was (maybe all of the other four, in turn, on different occasions) saying that with the Slipperman costume, it got to the point where it was actually impeding his ability to do what he was supposed to be doing in the first place, which was singing.
Even with bands who did put out live albums, sometimes the bootlegs were better. Take Led Zeppelin, for instance. For years, I always heard that The Song Remains The Same caught Led Zeppelin in a really bad light, performing poorly, at the end of a long US tour, etc, and that it really didn't do justice to them as a live band. I eventually got a few bootlegs that better illuminated their onstage prowess, and I could hear how much they were on other occasions (of course, I also managed to find a few bootlegs that demonstrated how hit and miss the band could be at times).
Supposedly, at some point in the 80's or 90's, someone asked Jimmy Page asked if he felt he needed to put out the "definitive" Zeppelin live album, and he said something like, "Maybe it already exists, if the fans care to look for it", apparently meaning the bootleggers had already taken care of the matter. Ironic, given the infamous stories of that crime boss wannabe Peter Grant threatening and even assaulting people he believed were making or selling bootlegs (remember the story about the guy in Toronto or wherever it was he beat up, only to find out the guy was taking sound level readings for some sort of official government purposes).
Of course, Page would eventually give us a couple official live Zep releases, including a DVD, but as with The Song Remains The Same, there's lots of edits and otherwise semi-felonious (well, felonious from the fanboy perspective) gestures that one would argue still prevented them from being definitive (again at least as far as the fanboys were concerned). Personally, I still prefer some of the bootlegs. The versions of No Quarter from the 75 and 77 tours, for instance, I would argue bury the Song Remains The Same version.
Edit: Make that some of the live versions from 75 and 77. The 77 tour manages to be strangely inconsistent. There's shows of total brilliance, with the band sounding like they're playing the concert of their lives. Then ther'es other shows, sometimes just a few weeks later, where they sound terrible. For years, I wondered why they didn't much material from the Seattle 77 concert on the officially released DVD. Then I actually got to see the Seattle show (which I downloaded from a torrent site) and saw/heard for myself how terrible Page was for most of that night).
Not having this box set I never knew about these overdubs but it makes me more curious to hear it now. I never thought Gabriel would ever sing these songs again so this may be the closest we could ever get to what it would sound like if they ever reunited to perform it.
To me, the second set was a bigger debacle. Some of the live material was chosen poorly, if you ask me, and what was the deal with those superfluous dance mixes?! If you needed to put the dance mixes out on a CD, why not just put them out on a separate single disc best of thing, since the only people who want to hear an a nearly 6 minute version of Invisible Touch or a 7 minute version of I Can't Dance or the kind of idiots who would buy a cheap single disc best of thing.
So, there's only one "work in progress" track (Mama), which means they left off that 10 minute version of Abacab that Tony mentioned in his September 84 Keyboard interview, amongst other possible choices (hey, does a tape exist of the Duke Suite, in it's original form, before they cut it into several individual songs and spaced them out throughout the record?). As for the live material, they left out Eleventh Earl Of Mar, and ...In That Quiet Earth, to cite two obvious examples. They only used one song from the Trick Of The Tail tour (though I imagine that might because they wanted to focus on material that had never been issued on live albums, but that still leaves White Mountain and the instrumental arrangement of Fly On A Windshield/Broadway Melody Of 1974 as contenders). They left off two of the B-sides (apparently because the band decided they "weren't very good") and another was released in edited form, as was Submarine, apparently.
I completely agree. While I loved the first set, the second was a real disappointment. Perhaps because I had read at one point that it was going to be a full Rainbow '77 show on discs 1 and 2, along with assorted other live tracks on disc 3 and all the crap on disc 4. What got released was a far cry. The other thing that always bothered me was that all those individual live tracks are clearly from multi-track recordings. I would love to see some of those full shows see the light of day. Slim and none I suppose though.
Yeah, although I wasn't personally all that bothered by it (still am not), it was a bit of a shock to only be made aware of it by reading the liner notes by Tony Banks (even then, he didn't come right out and say it, just said something along the lines of, aside from the vocals not much fixing was required for the live material). Since I had never heard the the Lamb live show in any form, the vocals weren't a bit issue for me. Supper's Ready, however, was a different story as I had had a boot leg of that show for years, so the vocals overdubs on that I do find distracting. It really should have been made clear on the packaging so people could buy it or not based on that. Probably why they didn't mention it.
Never bothered with the second set.
re: Archive II
Yeah, I would agree there. A lot of them appear to be from the various video projects they undertook in the 80's, ie the Drury Lane concerts in 1980, the Three Sides Live video, and I think that version of The Brazilian is from the same shows the Invisible Touch concert video was shot at. So those would most definitely have multi-track recordings, given that they knew they were doing something with them right away, it wasn't just something that was being done for "reference" or "posterity" purposes.
And that brings me to another point that drives me crazy, is we know they've got all the footage of the Drury Lane concerts. There were two shows shot, the first one, I believe, I have a fully edited version of that concert, nearly in it's entirety (apparently the video crew chose Ripples, dammit!, as the song to change reels on). Why that hasn't been released legitimately is beyond me, other than maybe you could make the argument that most of the songs appear on other releases (do I understand the Archive sets are out of print?). Instead, they put an "edited highlights" reel (presumably the actual program the BBC aired back in 1980) as bonus material on the 76-82 boxset that came out later, in 2007 or whenever it was.
The second night, I have a DVD of again nearly the entire show, but taken from what I call the Tony/Phil cam, ie it's just one camera, on Tony's side of the stage, mostly focusing on those two with the occasional of someone else onstage. But it has a lot of tracking errors (damaged master, maybe?), and again, a chunk of Ripples is missing (though you do get more of the song than what circulates from the previous night). IT does however include, I think, The Knife, as the final encore, which also doesn't appear on the other video. So one wonders if it's not possible to cobble something together from the two shows, and put out something that kind of reflects the full set list from both nights. I mean, if the video of The Knife is slightly frelled up, what are the odds that the actual multi-track tape of the song is as well?
And don't get me started on Genesis In Concert. The director allegedly has nearly everything that was shot for that still in his possession, apparently two shows very nearly in their entirety (if not in fact fully completely in their entirety). And supposedly, the director has "no interest" in doing anything with the material (and I have the impression he has veto power on such a project).
And I still say they should have done an expanded version of Seconds Out (and maybe Three Sides Live, too). They've got enough material, they could have added a good 20 minutes or more to each of those.
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