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Thread: Frank and the Mothers: The sixties albums.

  1. #51
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    1. If the band weren't all living in California, where were they living?
    Presumably NYC, where they had relocated while playing a residency at the Garrick Theatre.
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  2. #52
    Back in the mid 90's, A&E aired a Biography show on Frank. I think it aired not too long after he passed away, but it appeared they had been working on it at the time of his death, because there's some obviously very late period interview footage. Anyhow, at one point, I can't remember which band member it was, but one of the Mothers said that Frank told them that he wanted everyone to "go off and do other stuff" and then maybe a few years down the road, we'll get back together and see if we can't come up with some interesting. And I think said something like, "But Frank never got us back together after that".

  3. #53
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I can't remember which band member it was, but one of the Mothers said that Frank told them that he wanted everyone to "go off and do other stuff" and then maybe a few years down the road, we'll get back together and see if we can't come up with some interesting. And I think said something like, "But Frank never got us back together after that".
    Sounds like something Jimmy Carl Black would say.
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  4. #54
    "Hi Boys and Girls, I'm Jimmy Carl Black, and I'm the Indian of the group."
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    I saw that Biography episode. I can only recall Motorhead Sherwood representing the early Mothers in the interviews, but this was long ago.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by señormoment View Post
    I saw that Biography episode. I can only recall Motorhead Sherwood representing the early Mothers in the interviews, but this was long ago.
    It was Motorhead in that Biography show who had the quote mentioned above about FZ telling the Mothers that maybe they could get back together after doing other things for a year.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    And if there is a newbie asking for an easy entry point to the Zappa's world people usually suggest the "jazz" or "rock" trio of albums. The albums created by the 60s lineup are usually considered of an acquired taste for general crowd, which is kind of atypical given how often the first 6-8 albums of any rock artist define their total oeuvre.

    Just a digression...
    Uncle Meat is the album that made me realize that Zappa was a genius. I was reticent to try his other 60s albums when I heard they were “satire,” as I’d had the mistaken impression (thanks to exposure to 70s and 80s material first) that all his “satire” was potty humour and crass attempts at offending people. WOIIFTM really is a masterpiece, though.
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  8. #58
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I am doing a Mothers binge, starting with Freak Out and ending at Weasels, including Hot Rats and Burnt Weeny. Plus all live stuff from that period. Just for fun. I am sort of obsessed with Money right now - it's blowing my mind all over again.

    The 2012 masters sound SO great that it's fun to revisit these gems. I'm including stuff like Ahead of Their Time and YCDTOSA Vol. 5 disc one. If anybody wants to play along, I would like to hear your reassessment, or if you are a FZ newbie there is no better place to start imo.

  9. #59
    I listened to Burnt Weenie Sandwich and the back half of Ahead Of Their Time today. Lots of great music in both releases. Love Frank's wah-wah guitar solos on those records, and the whoel band sounds amazing.

  10. #60
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    Lumpy Money is pretty much essential for those interested in this períod of Zappa's career, IMHO.

  11. #61
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    Controversial opinion incoming : Absolutely Free should have received all the attentions and accolades that Sgt. Pepper's got/get

  12. #62
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    I have no reassessment.

    I think that Frank was a absolutely certifiable musical genius and I also think that with a few exceptions, my PERSONAL interest and my PERSONAL enjoyment of his work ends in 1970, picks up again in 1972-73, and then ends.

    I have felt like this for decades and decades. YMMV.
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  13. #63
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I have no reassessment.

    I think that Frank was a absolutely certifiable musical genius and I also think that with a few exceptions, my PERSONAL interest and my PERSONAL enjoyment of his work ends in 1970, picks up again in 1972-73, and then ends.

    I have felt like this for decades and decades. YMMV.
    Even the purely electronic/Synclavier albums, such as Jazz from Hell and Civilization Phaze III, do nothing for you? I regard the latter as one of his masterpieces--if I could take only three to the proverbial desert island, they would be Uncle Meat, Grand Wazoo, and Civilization Phaze III.
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  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post
    Lumpy Money is pretty much essential for those interested in this períod of Zappa's career, IMHO.
    Yreah, I'm gonna have to get that at some point.

  15. #65
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Even the purely electronic/Synclavier albums, such as Jazz from Hell and Civilization Phaze III, do nothing for you? I regard the latter as one of his masterpieces--if I could take only three to the proverbial desert island, they would be Uncle Meat, Grand Wazoo, and Civilization Phaze III.
    I like Jazz From Hell quite a bit. I did say with a few exceptions.

    I don’t know Civilization that well. I owned it at one time when it first came out, found it pretty cold, and have not heard it since.

    I am also extremely fond of Sleep Dirt and to a slightly lesser extent the 1975 Royce Hall material.

    I generally interested-but-overwhelmed by his orchestra music; I appreciate it and I can hear the craft and sheer skill of it, but it’s generally hard going for me.

    And there’s more than that that I like, but in general, what I stated is generally true for me.
    Last edited by Steve F.; 08-05-2021 at 08:49 PM.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  16. #66
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post
    Lumpy Money is pretty much essential for those interested in this períod of Zappa's career, IMHO.
    You dig the mono mix? I still love the original stereo the best...in headphones its a total trip! And yes, crazy cool shit in that set

  17. #67
    Last year I started with the early 60s stuff, there are a couple of good compilations including his Film music. My quintessential Mothers 1 records is Uncle Meat, but I have a real soft Spot for Lumpy Gravy and Money, because they were the first Zappa records I heard. I found some time ago a nice Absolutely Free 2LP vinyl remaster with a third side with Bonus and an etched Zappa portrait on the fourth side and the original Libretto. Call and vegetable being one of my favorite Songs.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I am doing a Mothers binge, starting with Freak Out and ending at Weasels, including Hot Rats and Burnt Weeny. Plus all live stuff from that period. Just for fun. I am sort of obsessed with Money right now - it's blowing my mind all over again.
    Money is essentially all the bit as sophisticatedly intricate as the (mostly instrumental) trilogy, but the conversion of composition into "funny tunes" ironically makes for an even more difficult listen overall, IMHO. Yet I wouldn't live without it. However, I still think Absolutely Free was the better effort.

    Little beats the trilogy; Meat/Weeny/Flesh. Together with Trout Mask it would set a standard of formality in rock composition touched by perhaps only a handful of other artists throughout the years of various stylistic developments. You simply can't listen -enough- to it.
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  19. #69
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    It's difficult to pick out a single record from Zappa & The Mothers from the Sixties. But if I have to choose, "Hot Rats" would always come first. And I guess I'm not all alone; after all, "Hot Rats" is one of Zappa's most accessible, if not necessarily typical, albums.
    In 1969, Zappa sent his Mothers of Invention, with the exception of saxophonist and keyboardist Ian Underwood, on a break, and gathered hired musicians - including the violinists Jean-Luc Ponty and Sugarcane Harris - to record one of the first jazz-rock albums ever. As is so nicely written in the Rykodisc Zappa catalog: "The first FZ album that Most Folks Who Don't Even Like Frank Zappa ever bought".
    Actually, "Hot Rats" is a long way from the Mothers' sound, as the earlier Zappa & The Mothers' albums consisted to a large extent of cynical-satirical stuff with the American Way Of Life and the hippy movement, often in grotesquely twisted song caricatures, bizarre stories and sound experiments. The sound is now more compact on "Hot Rats".
    Two songs stand out for me in particular. One is the opening track, "Peaches en Regalia". I don't know how often I've heard this piece before, and yet I am always speechless because of such brilliance. That's 3.5 minutes full of energy, overflowing musical ideas and lush instrumentalization, and despite all the complexity, very catchy (even if the single release was probably not a success in the charts). An absolute classic of the jazz-rock genre in its earliest phase.
    My second favourite is "Son of Mr. Green’s Genes". This is a purely instrumental and fast-paced version of a song that originally appeared on "Uncle Meat" and, despite its nine minutes, is not a second too long. Full of dynamism and fantastic solo interludes, everything fits here, including the structure, which results in a convincing overall structure with recurring motifs.
    This is less true of the two longest tracks on the album. Both "Willy the Pimp" (with a short vocal passage sung by Captain Beefheart) and above all "The Gumbo Variations" are primarily jams with extended guitar and violin solos, but less of a seemingly logical song structure unfolds. Towards the end or in between, it sometimes becomes a little aimless for my taste, but I guess that's exactly why many love these two titles.
    The two shorter tracks, "Little Umbrellas" and "It Must be a Camel", are again more song-oriented and a little quieter. Even if they don't come close to "Peaches en Regalia", both are beautiful and at the same time very varied songs in their own way. And "It Must be a Camel" is a worthy final song with its intricate melody and at the same time majestic style.

  20. #70
    My problem with Hot Rats—and this is not to suggest that I don’t love the album—is it’s atypicality.

    It’s a very jammy album, and it’s good at what it does.

    But great Zappa albums blend “heavy” musicianship, lyrical irreverence (and juvenile-ness, even banality) and vocals into a stew of un-categorized perfection. E.g., Uncle Meat, Apostrophe, Joe’s Garage.

    Hot Rats may be a good entry point for exploring FZ’s music, but if that’s what the new listener is seeking in the rest of his discog, she will have trouble finding it and, likely, be disappointed.

    That’s how I see it, anyway.
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  21. #71
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    ^ I pretty much agree. Great album indeed but a tad one-dimensional for me. I dig the Meat/Weeny/Weasels trio more personally- more variety and daring imo.

  22. #72
    ^ Interesting insights on Hot Rats; I think I'm inclined to agree with you guys. It's not my favorite FZ album by a longshot -- but, it has "Peaches en Regalia" on it, which is one of my favorite songs by anyone ever, and IMHO is basically a timeless classic and masterpiece. The rest of Rats is still great though.

    Because of this thread, I'm listening to the early Mothers albums starting with Freak Out!, and going from there. I've only a passing familiarity with that period, so this is kind of like doing my homework (except it's fun).

    Weasels was a difficult listen for me when I last heard it; I love "Oh No" and "Orange County Lumber Truck", but don't really remember anything else from it. However, I'm gonna go buy it along with some of those other 60s albums. I want to "get" the Meat/Weeny/Weasels sandwich trio, so I'll keep working at it.

    Incidentally, I've already got Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Meat Light on CD. What's the "official" running order of Uncle Meat? Or what is the recommended version for a neophyte to listen to?

  23. #73
    Member StarThrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I dig the Meat/Weeny/Weasels trio
    That has a nice ring to it! And plenty of protein to fill you up.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Little beats the trilogy; Meat/Weeny/Flesh. Together with Trout Mask it would set a standard of formality in rock composition touched by perhaps only a handful of other artists throughout the years of various stylistic developments. You simply can't listen -enough- to it.
    This is a period I really want to get a handle on. I still struggle with it (compared to FZ's 70s stuff at least), but it's so fascinating I keep coming back. Actually, I think after coming to like Soft Machine (in particular Vol 2), it has helped me to better appreciate stuff like this. Maybe there is hope!

    Haven't braved Trout Mask yet, but I do plan to eventually.

  25. #75
    I have a number of these (excluding Freak Out, unfortunately) on original vinyls that I bought for $3-5.00 back around 1980 when a friend was hard up for cash. I haven't listened to them for years. Since my turntable is currently blocked by a rabbit cage, I guess I'll have to stream them.
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