Hydravion (Philippe Besombes)

[Steve F.]

But if it was never re-issued and the original is either rare or expensive there is still a small market. I believe that if someone puts the two Hydravion records (which were never re-issued so far) on a single package CD they could probably sell a few hundreds around the world.

Yes.
But.

1. Everyone seems to agree that the 1st Hydravion is pretty good and the 2nd one is not.

2. You are assuming that you could get the rights holders to allow you to put both on one CD. That might not be possible.

3. ' A few hundreds' is lousy numbers.

4. You are assuming that that in todays world, with these albums already up on youtube or spotify (or acknowledging that they will be the moment it is reissued) that there would still be 500 people willing to spend money on the hard physical copy that was just released.

I don't like those odds. . .

[spacefreak]

I will agree with Steve that there is no hope selling Hydravion reissues in viable numbers, because:

a. The band is no more and do not play concerts, so no way to promote the releases in the live circuit.
b. There is no "hipster myth" surrounding both albums.
c. There exist plenty of original vinyls in decent 2nd hand conditions and for very reasonable prices.

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^

Thanks for backing me up!

[Trane]

Yes

I don't like those odds. . .

Totally understand.

I will agree with Steve that there is no hope selling Hydravion reissues in viable numbers, because:

a. The band is no more and do not play concerts, so no way to promote the releases in the live circuit.
b. There is no "hipster myth" surrounding both albums.
c. There exist plenty of original vinyls in decent 2nd hand conditions and for very reasonable prices.

Yeah, I don't see much chance to make a viable promotion on the French generalist TV circuit for a CD reissue

[rcarlberg]

music should never have been digitized

if CDs and MP3s were never created and everyone still had to buy the LP the music industry would not be the corpse it is today

Disagree. And here's why.

When CDs first came out and for a number of years afterward there was a considerable industry bump, as people rebought albums they'd had on vinyl and OOP releases were reissued. The LP market was moribund before the CD revolution, and producing a record was so expensive (and hard to get distribution) that very few did it DIY.

Where the industry fucked up was not somehow controlling digital copying. It was known from the start that a digital copy was as good as the original, so controlling post-distribution copying SHOULD have been a prime concern. Napster saw that opening and walked right in. That was the beginning of the death of the CD industry.*

CDs have made self-production feasible, and reissues of obscurities selling 300 copies worldwide possible (if not lucrative). Without the digitization of music, the industry would have died years ago.



* - By the way, I make a distinction between "the CD industry" and "the music industry." CD sales are in the toilet, but more music is being produced by more musicians than ever before.

[ashratom]

Well - good news for those of us who are interested in buying Hydravion on CD. Plus you get two of the CDs there were issued prior (by Mio).

Philippe Besombes
Anthology 1975-1979 (2016) [Compilation]

Street date: August 12, 2016

CD reissue label: Cleopatra (USA)

Label says: "A deluxe limited edition 4CD box set of studio albums by France's pioneering electronic avant garde artist, Philippe Besombes! Includes the dramatic electro-acoustic experimental soundtrack for the 1975 film Libra, plus the 1979 solo album as well as both albums by Besombes' progressive electronic group Hydravion! Comes packaged in a sturdy box with individual sleeves for each CD as well as a booklet containing extensive liner notes written by Dave Thompson based on a brand new interview with Besombes!"

[Mr.Krautman]

I will agree with Steve that there is no hope selling Hydravion reissues in viable numbers, because:

a. The band is no more and do not play concerts, so no way to promote the releases in the live circuit.
b. There is no "hipster myth" surrounding both albums.
c. There exist plenty of original vinyls in decent 2nd hand conditions and for very reasonable prices.

... But Purple Pyramid/Cleopatra will soon re-issue a 4CD boxset with all Besombes works, including the two Hydravion records. I guess there must be some interest somewhere for these obscure "unmarketable" artists after all.

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^

So, there you go. You get what you want.

[Trane]

looks like I will open my wallet and extract my visa card. Or use Paypal.

[arturs]

Sounds like an interesting release. If Cleopatra believes they can make some money off this, more power to 'em! I'll have to listen some on YouTube to determine if this is for me or not.

BTW Anyone have any insight on Cleopatra as a label? I first heard of them when I bought their Amon Duul and Guru Guru compilations back in the 1990s. Those were quite good and served as an entry point for me for those bands. Over the last few years I've only seen the endless Sherwood tribute albums. Checking their website, it seems they are all over the place musically: punk, industrial, Hawkwind-related, etc.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I'll have to listen some on YouTube to determine if this is for me or not.

If you like stuv like Sensation's Fix, St. Tropez, Cybotron or Flamen Dialis, you are very likely to like (yeah, I know) that first Hydravion.

[TheH]

[upps didn't read this thread very well...]

Those who haven't noticed there is a Box Set from Purple Pyramid (Cleopatra) out since May

[ashratom]

[upps didn't read this thread very well...]

Those who haven't noticed there is a Box Set from Purple Pyramid (Cleopatra) out since May

I lost your meaning here I'm afraid The box set is to be released on August 12th according to Cleopatra.

[ashratom]

Also, I've seen that the first Hydravion album is receiving praise, while the second isn't. Honestly I think they're both the same in quality. Stratos Airlines starts off a bit slow, and of course the album cover is stupid, but by Side 2 the music is as good as anything Besombes has ever released.

Here are my notes for the band: "After a handful of dark, complex and remarkable electronic rock albums on the Pole label, Phillippe Besombes created a more accessible vehicle for his talents. Thus was born Hydravion. Each album starts with a slightly bouncy, disco tinged, electronic track - a style that was quite popular in Paris in the late 1970s. But this being Besombes, it doesn't take long for Hydravion to sound more Heldon than Chic. Each album features anguished fuzz guitar leads, bizarre interludes, alien voices and a whole lot of invention. Many folks tend to overlook Hydravion (and who can blame them, especially after glancing at the ridiculous "Stratos Airlines" space-suit cover), but give each album about 5 minutes to settle in, and you'll see these are top tier French progressive electronic albums."

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

great news!

BTW (without reading the entire thread) the Besombes/Rizet album Opal is also worth seeking out

[arturs]

I was very surprised to find both Hydravions up on Youtube.

The first one (is the 25 minutes on YT really the whole thing??) is interesting and might be worth owning.

The second, though, is all over the place. A few good tracks, but just no coherence. Is it Jarre? Ashra? Cobham-Duke? Kraftwerk? Kluster? All of these things and more. Often within the same track! For other genres this might not be so important but for Space/electronic music I need some consistency to maintain my space travel without being knocked back to Earth every few minutes.

[Mascodagama]

great news!

BTW (without reading the entire thread) the Besombes/Rizet album Opal is also worth seeking out

Do you mean Pôle rather than Opal? I never heard there was more than one album by Besombes/Rizet.

[ashratom]

I was very surprised to find both Hydravions up on Youtube.

The first one (is the 25 minutes on YT really the whole thing??) is interesting and might be worth owning.

It's about 30 minutes, so it may be missing a track.

The second, though, is all over the place. A few good tracks, but just no coherence. Is it Jarre? Ashra? Cobham-Duke? Kraftwerk? Kluster? All of these things and more. Often within the same track! For other genres this might not be so important but for Space/electronic music I need some consistency to maintain my space travel without being knocked back to Earth every few minutes.

It's eclectic for sure, as is most of Besombes' classic work. The Pole album with Rizet is definitely varied as well. I would say Hydravion's second effort is more geared toward "progressive electronic rock".

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Do you mean Pôle rather than Opal? I never heard there was more than one album by Besombes/Rizet.

D'OH!

yes, it's called Pole

[Trane]

I finally had time to dissect this boxset.

The only thing I'd heard from it was Libra and it stunning at times, plain weird at others, ranging from hard rock (one track) to experimental mumbo-jumbo. I'm not sure whether the version previously released on CD (the great defunct MIO label) had all of the bonus tracks (no alt takes of live tracks), but they're going along fine with the rest of the album

as for the very difficult Esombeso (Ceci est Cela), it's definitely the odd one out and the bacvk of the boset claims that Princesse Lolita is not on the album and also not featuring the last two bonus tracks (the PJF thingies) of the MIO CD release, but the disc has 10 tracks (instead of the 11 of the MIO version), and instead of 8 announced on the back cover of the boxset.

BTW (without reading the entire thread) the Besombes/Rizet album Opal is also worth seeking out

I'm relatively curious about Pôle (not Opal), but also wondering why it wasn't included in this boxset, especially that it was also a Pôle label release like Libra... and was reissued on CD by MIO at the time.

However, Id also be curious as why they wouldn't include Besombes' last album La Guerre Des Animaux (82) either, because from what I've heard of it (about half of it), this could've been sonically speaking Hydravion's third album

This is even odder, given that there is still physical space for those two albums in the boxset.

Also, I've seen that the first Hydravion album is receiving praise, while the second isn't. Honestly I think they're both the same in quality. Stratos Airlines starts off a bit slow, and of course the album cover is stupid, but by Side 2 the music is as good as anything Besombes has ever released.

Yup, I wouldn't rate one Hydravion album above or below the other. They're both odd and varied... In some case, you'd swear Besombes in going for the JMJ sonics, in others, you'd detect the 70's French version of Popcorn, at others, he could go for the Kluster (the first two with a K), as well as Cluster.

The first one (is the 25 minutes on YT really the whole thing??) is interesting and might be worth owning.

The second, though, is all over the place. A few good tracks, but just no coherence. Is it Jarre? Ashra? Cobham-Duke? Kraftwerk? Kluster? All of these things and more. Often within the same track! For other genres this might not be so important but for Space/electronic music I need some consistency to maintain my space travel without being knocked back to Earth every few minutes.

the one thing that sways me off balance is those two tracks with vocals... at best, they ruin the ambiance, and can be qualified of "N'importe Quoi"

It's eclectic for sure, as is most of Besombes' classic work. The Pole album with Rizet is definitely varied as well. I would say Hydravion's second effort is more geared toward "progressive electronic rock".

Yup, Besombes' works are certainly eclectic (not in the sense of the PA definition).

In some ways, Besombes is a full ingredient in the 70's synth wizard scene, despite claiming (in the booklet) he didn't really like synths at one point