As a Musician, Is It Better To Think More Like You Were Younger?

**regenerativemusic** · 03-28-2016

Often, during the morning when I do my daily routine (journal, stretch, deep breath, and do various readings) I think about what kind of attitude I should take to my daily work. I work for myself in my own businesses. Rarely lately, do I say, "I want to go for it today as a musician." More often, it's "I want to get some music in today."

When younger a lot of us musicians thought we would support ourselves wholly by our music. Should we still aim for that later in life?

I think even people over 22 may qualify for this question, because by 22 you pretty much have an idea of what is required of you to put out some value in the world so you will be repaid monetarily.

How much should one try to "go for it" as a musician as they get older?

**Sputnik** · 03-28-2016

I gave up on the idea of being a professional musician in my early 20s. Went and got my MBA, and have never looked back. Being a professional musician, or even pursuing it with any seriousness, requires compromises in lifestyle I was never really willing to make. I think you have to throw yourself into the scene 100%, and commit to playing and touring at ever wider scope (local to regional to national) to really have any hope at making it as a professional performer playing heir own music. If someone feels compelled to do this at middle age, more power to them, but I think the chances of success are so low it's not worth it.

Ironically, in my "amateur" status as a musician, I feel far more free to "go for it" in any approach, style, genre, what-have-you than if I were professional. There are simply limits as to what kind of music can be monetized, so a professional risks losing audience when they stray too far from certain norms, even if they are on the relatively artsy side of the musical spectrum. So if you can find the time and energy to devote to it, I don't think you have to be on a track to support yourself with music in order to be able to "go for it."

I guess it sort of depends on what you want from music. For me, I play a lot, write music, do recordings, and do occasional gigs. If I was retired I'd have more energy and time to devote to it, but fundamentally I wouldn't want to accomplish more than I'm already accomplishing. So what do you want from music that you're not getting now, and how might you accomplish that short of quitting your day job?

Bill

**Mikhael** · 03-28-2016

If you look at how many musicians "make it", based on the Billboard Hot 100 charts, and then look at the ages of those involved, you'll find chances decreasing at 25, decreasing a LOT at 30, and getting way past the lottery odds at 35-40. I actually calculated those odds once, in my spare time on the road. It encouraged me to go back to school if I wanted a halfway decent life...

**Nijinsky Hind** · 03-28-2016

Its better to wish you were younger too... But yeah, think young, no one wants to hear an old mans tune.

**regenerativemusic** · 03-29-2016

Originally Posted by Sputnik

I gave up on the idea of being a professional musician in my early 20s. Went and got my MBA, and have never looked back. Being a professional musician, or even pursuing it with any seriousness, requires compromises in lifestyle I was never really willing to make. I think you have to throw yourself into the scene 100%, and commit to playing and touring at ever wider scope (local to regional to national) to really have any hope at making it as a professional performer playing heir own music. If someone feels compelled to do this at middle age, more power to them, but I think the chances of success are so low it's not worth it.

Ironically, in my "amateur" status as a musician, I feel far more free to "go for it" in any approach, style, genre, what-have-you than if I were professional. There are simply limits as to what kind of music can be monetized, so a professional risks losing audience when they stray too far from certain norms, even if they are on the relatively artsy side of the musical spectrum. So if you can find the time and energy to devote to it, I don't think you have to be on a track to support yourself with music in order to be able to "go for it."

I guess it sort of depends on what you want from music. For me, I play a lot, write music, do recordings, and do occasional gigs. If I was retired I'd have more energy and time to devote to it, but fundamentally I wouldn't want to accomplish more than I'm already accomplishing. So what do you want from music that you're not getting now, and how might you accomplish that short of quitting your day job?

Bill

I want something to be created from my time involved in it, either creating music or some writing about music, or packaging new music, or monetizing my music. I just do not look at my music realistically as bringing in enough money to take me off the other art that I do much more of right now that does bring in money (writing non-fiction, to a lesser extent, writing poetry), or to take me away from other businesses that pay the bills. I think that's bad, that music is irreplaceable, and so I do spend about an hour with music every day but it's not always very direct. For me, playing now seems like ongoing learning experience and less of the live action composing I was doing when younger. It's always a chore to keep the hands in shape, and it's a philosophical commitment to stay a musician in later life. I do believe I can bring in some money from my music -- thousands of people earn money every month from music in some amount in a city the size of Seattle. Film sound tracks are also something I want to do.

When I was younger like a lot of people i thought I would become famous. Then in my 30s and 40s it was more about just keeping the creative spirit going, the recording and titling of new works, doing some live shows. The music itself is what is important, giving it life, not hiding it. So, as long as I can feel the value in that, the money is truly secondary and so the time involved can be maximal as I can afford to do it. Music gives a value that is ultimately like other qualities not measurable by money, so it shouldn't be limited by the fact that it may not produce money.

**Zeuhlmate** · 03-29-2016

If you have fun, continue

IMO the best music is made with passion and a drop of insanity, if you feel passionated, do continue

**Sputnik** · 03-29-2016

Originally Posted by regenerativemusic

I want something to be created from my time involved in it, either creating music or some writing about music, or packaging new music, or monetizing my music. I just do not look at my music realistically as bringing in enough money to take me off the other art that I do much more of right now that does bring in money (writing non-fiction, to a lesser extent, writing poetry), or to take me away from other businesses that pay the bills. I think that's bad, that music is irreplaceable, and so I do spend about an hour with music every day but it's not always very direct. For me, playing now seems like ongoing learning experience and less of the live action composing I was doing when younger. It's always a chore to keep the hands in shape, and it's a philosophical commitment to stay a musician in later life. I do believe I can bring in some money from my music -- thousands of people earn money every month from music in some amount in a city the size of Seattle. Film sound tracks are also something I want to do.

When I was younger like a lot of people i thought I would become famous. Then in my 30s and 40s it was more about just keeping the creative spirit going, the recording and titling of new works, doing some live shows. The music itself is what is important, giving it life, not hiding it. So, as long as I can feel the value in that, the money is truly secondary and so the time involved can be maximal as I can afford to do it. Music gives a value that is ultimately like other qualities not measurable by money, so it shouldn't be limited by the fact that it may not produce money.

I hear you. I think it's a place a lot of creative people find themselves in, finding that balance. Music is tough because as you say, you have to keep you "hands in shape."

For me, the answer was lowering my expectations in certain areas to a point where I could achieve things I enjoy doing. I don't need to play a gig a month to be happy, a few a year are OK. As long as I'm writing new stuff and things are progressing, I don't need to see a new album out every year or two (though three would be nice

). And money is really not on the table for me with music, other than a hope to break even on direct CD manufacturing costs, which so far we have done for all our CD releases. Sounds like you are similar in that regard, so it's going to be a process for you finding the balance that meets your needs. You may need more out of it to feel satisfied than me, and that's cool. But it doesn't sound to me like you need to quit everything else and do music with that kind of youthful singularity of purpose to get some satisfying results.

But if you feel that compulsion at any level, as I do, I'd say try to make it work. It's those things you abandon then look back years later with regret. I've considered giving up so many times. It's just so fucking hard keeping your art going, especially if it requires substantial rehearsal time. But as of today, I'm so glad I persevered. Despite the difficulties it has all worked out, and for all the effort, the rewards continue to be there for me.

Good luck in your journey,

Bill

**Yodelgoat** · 03-29-2016

I love to compose and record music. I dont think I enjoyed that aspect when I was younger. Its been a recent thing for me to have a passion for writing music. There was so much music I liked around when I was younger. The stuff I write today is not going to make it out to the public anytime soon, but I could not be more committed to creating music. Perhaps it was when I realized that I wasnt going to make a living at music, that I decided it was something I just cant give up. I dont like the way I thought when I was younger - too much piss and vinegar. Now I approach music from a more Zen-like place. I think its the right way to approach a song - perhaps not commercially, but these are definitely a bigger part of me than the stuff I wrote decades ago. I find that stuff a little embarrassing.

**Enid** · 04-13-2016

I lived that way of life for 40 years. I still do but just on the weekends. I compose a kind of Chamber Rock on the side, but I still make a living at playing covers. It's nothing to be ashamed of and it's a quick way of making decent money. Sometimes I play three shows in one day and bring home enough cash to pay bills and treat the kids to dinner and the movies. It can be very comfortable to your life. If you are a "in demand" musician..the business can evolve into a security blanket for you. If you worked really hard in your youth to become a skilled player, once you travel and musicians/entertainers witness your talent , you will receive cash offers for performance. Additionally session work and that depends on how diverse of a player you are. This is all positive. The unfortunate negative exists within all or most of the people surrounding you who have heard you play on stage 40 years ago. Even though you may not be internationally popular, the fact that you may have backed famous entertainers puts your reputation on a different scale. For example, you might be shopping somewhere and you will be approached and hounded and believe me it is relentless. Someone will be talking to you about the time they saw you open for a big name act and then other people begin to listen and it becomes a circus.

It totally depends on how you deal with attention. If getting that kind of attention embarrasses you and puts you on the spot in public..(like yours truly), then it can be a difficult situation. Sorry to not offer up more acknowledgement on music , but this is what I have to deal with everyday. Unless I stay inside letting the phone ring and ignoring e-mails from people who want me to hook them up with a famous entertainer. It's a flippin' circus man...and this is why some Rock musicians have done themselves in. Particularly the characters who valued privacy. It escalates to the point where your wife and children must accept the fact that wherever they go with you...you will be approached by fans. To a degree...it can ruin your life with other people that you love...and because it is an invasion of domestic private life. Once you put yourself out there and you actually reach a corporate level, even if you drop back down, everyone is going to remember you. To a degree a backing musician becomes a household name amongst fans and within the business. It doesn't exactly help when Rock journalists interview you and nine hundred and ninety nine times out of a thousand it causes you grief because your story gets changed and transformed into a lie. Then you are approached by fans to explain what that is all about? There are lawsuits ...but I won't get into that. To be brief, they are barriers holding you down. Additionally "dirty deals" where a more popular composer wants to buy your piece and credit he/she's name to it. There are thousands of dollars in your face and you have to decide how much does that piece of music mean to you? Did you write it when you were feeling hurt? Is it a sincere work of art? Are you willing to give it up for ten thousand dollars or is it the principal of it which keeps you from giving in at all? That's how the business stabs you right through the heart. It's a strange and cruel way of life to an extent and I try to live privately , ignoring the environment that feels criminally active at all times. You can't even trust your manager..lol!

**Mikhael** · 04-13-2016

I don't think I am the same person as when I was younger. My lack of youth bothers some people, but it doesn't stop me. I am who I am, and I will be that person musically as well. If I'm not, honesty goes out the door, and the music will lose something.

**Yodelgoat** · 04-13-2016

Wow, thats quite a unique situation you find yourself in Enid. I started my live music career in a similar situation, though not to the extent you have experienced. I joined a well known band from a little town, Olympia, Wa. And so I moved there with my wife and kid. The band was the biggest thing going in town, and for some reason, everyone knew about the change that had taken place. The band had fired the lead vocalist/Bass player, and I was his replacement. They had just released their first album, and so I was called upon to suddenly be a singer, who was replacing a popular singer. It was exciting to be out in public and have people treat you like you were someone who was special. Anywhere that people under 30 hung out, I was suddenly a center of attention. In malls, I would get stopped talked to and waved to. Like I say, Olympia was an small town, and the band was kind of considered The big thing. I recall my first local gig with the band - we had played several gigs in the surrounding area, Seattle, and the surrounding areas, where the band was just considered a good, semi popular local band. There was no drama. Then we came to play in Olympia, and the atmosphere became completely different. Fans of the old bass player were upset and were telling people I sucked, and the band was ruined. Others were just curious to see if the band had changed at all. The place reached capacity and then some and they turned people away, and they still hung out outside in the parking lot. Anyway, it was quite the drama. I did my best and people seemed to really like the change. It was strange to be playing original songs and seeing the people in the audience singing along. Where I really seemed to make the grade was in my ability to totally nail Tom Sawyer and Limelight - I have Geddy like qualities in my voice. And apparently - we totally rocked the place. I was not used to such adulation. Apparently the guy I replaced had issues with his voice cracking at the wrong time, and he could not consistently sing his own parts from the record. Thats why they decided to replace him. Incidentally, I did get to know him and we got along very well, although he was obviously a little hurt that he was let go. He didn't blame me for it.

Anyway, with all that said the band became much more popular, and I enjoyed about 3 years of living the rock star life - Without being rich. We were a very much in demand bar band, and in a small town, we were local stars. People thought we were much more famous than we were. Anyway, I would have people follow me home from gigs, occasionally we were pestered in public, but it was just an amazing feeling. I experienced it on a very small scale, but I was fortunate enough to be with a band in its climb. We actually became quite well known in the Seattle area. I did radio spots, played some really big local gigs - like Bumpershoot where there were 100K people there. Seattle international Raceway...

We never got signed - we were always just on the edge of it. The main reason why was because we werent willing to give everything away for nothing. Labels wanted bands that they could really manipulate, that asked for nothing in return. We made our living playing cover music and we would intermingle our own originals, and we got away with that alot. The bands that put out albums and only played thier own songs basically starved. We got away with doing a blend of covers and originals. People would tell me that they had no idea the song they heard us play had been an original.

Anyway, those days are long behind me now, and I look back with a fondness for that era of my life, but I enjoy having holidays, steady paychecks, health insurance etc...

But in deference to you Enid, I NEVER had anyone throw money at me to buy one of my songs. that would have been a problem I would have loved to have. Unfortunately for almost all of us, those days are forever gone. You may be able to sell your music if you are really exceptional, but I'm sure we all miss, to some extent the "fame" that has died from the music scene. With just a few exceptions. and they are getting old, and will probably pass away far sooner than we are ready to let them go. I was watching an interview with Geddy and Alex today, and thought "here's two guys who are still able to live the dream" I will miss it when we no longer have them with us. Out of the thousands to tens of thousands of famous Rock musicians, we only have a handful who can still demand attention. That makes me sad.

**Sean** · 04-13-2016

The title of your thread suggests we should look back fondly on our youthful selves. Personally, I'm better now that I ever was then so that thought of youth is not really appealing. That said, I have a youthful spirit that is eternally in my late 20s regardless, so in a way it never left me.

**Yodelgoat** · 04-13-2016

I would have to agree with you Sean. I'm much more into being old and a "has been/never was" I wouldnt trade the experience for anything, but glad I failed to some degree. I know a few people who once "made it" in their 20's and are now in there 50's and 60's who have struggled their entire lives to get back the fame and fortune they once had... Its a littler pathetic, and you feel bad for them. Very few people can sustain that kind of life and every time I drive thru Mississippi - gulfport, I see the signs for these entertainers who struggle to still be relevant playing Casinos, and I think "Oh Yeah - I remember that band" wow, they're still together? Why?

I can only think of how much Kansas must hate playing Carry on wayward son or Dust in the wind. Maybe Yes playing roundabout? Tommy Two tone just hardly seems on the register with one single hit. He's made a lifetime out of one song. If he ever didnt play it, he would never work again. Thats got to be at least a little bit sad.

Brian May? Now thats a guy who made a life for himself.

**Sean** · 04-13-2016

As for the original question

"When younger a lot of us musicians thought we would support ourselves wholly by our music. Should we still aim for that later in life?"

It all depends on if you are content to travel that road into midlife and beyond. At this point playing live constantly is the best way to do it (since nobody buys music much anymore), but it can be a grind pretty quickly. One that a younger person is more likely to endure with grace and passion. Whether it's in a cover band or playing originals. So if you are happy playing live constantly well into your middle years then, sure, why not? If you aren't content to schlep your own gear and play in some less than appealing situations and venues then don't, because those will come up.

Personally, if I played for a living I think I would lose touch with the fun and passion for music I still enjoy to this day. When I do play out (and I do several times a year in different contexts) it's usually for the enjoyment, getting paid too is a nice bonus and it makes it worth the drive and the gear schlepping, but having a full time job keeps it from being a primary motivation. I think if I did this several nights a week I'd lose my patience pretty quickly if it was as a cover band. But that's just me. If it was my own band playing our music I say, bring it ON! The busier the better.

**notallwhowander** · 04-13-2016

From the outside, there seems to be a difference between being a professional musician and a pop-star. Pop-stars have to have at least a couple twenty-somethings in front of the band, and be looking to sign it all away to a major label when they come knocking. This is on top of becoming a fixture in whatever music scene you are a part of. The arc appears to be making a splash when you are young, and managing properties and opportunities as you age. This becomes more improbable as one ages, but if you have the right schtick at the right time... you could win the Lotto.

As a professional musician, it seems you need to be in a town that has some kind of music industry, then you wear a lot of hats: gigs & sessions, writing & producing, music lessons, organizing gigs and festivals, etc. Basically, you develop and serve the needs of the local industry from season to season, cultivating contacts and opportunities as you go. How much of that will be people paying you to play your instrument? Hopefully enough to keep you interested.

**Rarebird** · 04-13-2016

The only musical thing I can is compose and I still hope one day I will make money from it.

**Yodelgoat** · 04-13-2016

Thats a cool dream to have - to compose and have someone want to pay you for your composition.

I still compose but with little or no intention of releasing it for commercial consumption.

As far as playing live music, I would do originals if I had the band. I am so done with playing sucky cover tunes with bad musicians, who just want to do bars.

One caveate - unless I can get into or start a Rush tribute band - I would do that in a heartbeat, and I would rock at it. But I guess either people arent that into Rush anymore.

**Enid** · 04-14-2016

Originally Posted by Yodelgoat

Wow, thats quite a unique situation you find yourself in Enid. I started my live music career in a similar situation, though not to the extent you have experienced. I joined a well known band from a little town, Olympia, Wa. And so I moved there with my wife and kid. The band was the biggest thing going in town, and for some reason, everyone knew about the change that had taken place. The band had fired the lead vocalist/Bass player, and I was his replacement. They had just released their first album, and so I was called upon to suddenly be a singer, who was replacing a popular singer. It was exciting to be out in public and have people treat you like you were someone who was special. Anywhere that people under 30 hung out, I was suddenly a center of attention. In malls, I would get stopped talked to and waved to. Like I say, Olympia was an small town, and the band was kind of considered The big thing. I recall my first local gig with the band - we had played several gigs in the surrounding area, Seattle, and the surrounding areas, where the band was just considered a good, semi popular local band. There was no drama. Then we came to play in Olympia, and the atmosphere became completely different. Fans of the old bass player were upset and were telling people I sucked, and the band was ruined. Others were just curious to see if the band had changed at all. The place reached capacity and then some and they turned people away, and they still hung out outside in the parking lot. Anyway, it was quite the drama. I did my best and people seemed to really like the change. It was strange to be playing original songs and seeing the people in the audience singing along. Where I really seemed to make the grade was in my ability to totally nail Tom Sawyer and Limelight - I have Geddy like qualities in my voice. And apparently - we totally rocked the place. I was not used to such adulation. Apparently the guy I replaced had issues with his voice cracking at the wrong time, and he could not consistently sing his own parts from the record. Thats why they decided to replace him. Incidentally, I did get to know him and we got along very well, although he was obviously a little hurt that he was let go. He didn't blame me for it.

Anyway, with all that said the band became much more popular, and I enjoyed about 3 years of living the rock star life - Without being rich. We were a very much in demand bar band, and in a small town, we were local stars. People thought we were much more famous than we were. Anyway, I would have people follow me home from gigs, occasionally we were pestered in public, but it was just an amazing feeling. I experienced it on a very small scale, but I was fortunate enough to be with a band in its climb. We actually became quite well known in the Seattle area. I did radio spots, played some really big local gigs - like Bumpershoot where there were 100K people there. Seattle international Raceway...

We never got signed - we were always just on the edge of it. The main reason why was because we werent willing to give everything away for nothing. Labels wanted bands that they could really manipulate, that asked for nothing in return. We made our living playing cover music and we would intermingle our own originals, and we got away with that alot. The bands that put out albums and only played thier own songs basically starved. We got away with doing a blend of covers and originals. People would tell me that they had no idea the song they heard us play had been an original.

Anyway, those days are long behind me now, and I look back with a fondness for that era of my life, but I enjoy having holidays, steady paychecks, health insurance etc...

But in deference to you Enid, I NEVER had anyone throw money at me to buy one of my songs. that would have been a problem I would have loved to have. Unfortunately for almost all of us, those days are forever gone. You may be able to sell your music if you are really exceptional, but I'm sure we all miss, to some extent the "fame" that has died from the music scene. With just a few exceptions. and they are getting old, and will probably pass away far sooner than we are ready to let them go. I was watching an interview with Geddy and Alex today, and thought "here's two guys who are still able to live the dream" I will miss it when we no longer have them with us. Out of the thousands to tens of thousands of famous Rock musicians, we only have a handful who can still demand attention. That makes me sad.

Interesting post! I really enjoyed your story .

**Rarebird** · 04-14-2016

Originally Posted by Yodelgoat

Thats a cool dream to have - to compose and have someone want to pay you for your composition.

I still compose but with little or no intention of releasing it for commercial consumption.

As far as playing live music, I would do originals if I had the band. I am so done with playing sucky cover tunes with bad musicians, who just want to do bars.

One caveate - unless I can get into or start a Rush tribute band - I would do that in a heartbeat, and I would rock at it. But I guess either people arent that into Rush anymore.

Composing is the only thing I can, or at least sometimes think I can.

**Enid** · 04-14-2016

For me personally...the music business , at first, was a very confusing reality. I was thrown off by one particular experience: (and sorry to go off thread), just like connecting to other people's viewpoints)..anyway..I was probably 14 years old in "71 and heard "Glam Rock" for the first time and loved it. As a kid , I thought.."Well I like this as much as I like The Beatles..but yet this is a different British style of Rock". By the time I started playing "Rock Clubs and Halls" ..Glam Rock", (commonly termed "Glitter Rock" in the music business), had already faded with it's original element and was being replaced in the mid 70's by a "Rocky Horror Picture Show" style of bizarre fashion and additionally a different approach in Rock song composition. David Bowie was already doing R&B while The Tubes and Ian Hunter had traces of a "Rocky Horror Picture Show" theatrical style of writing. In the press, you began to read much less about the "Glam Rock" style as if to indicate that the sometimes evil industry was shifting product around. Stadium Rock was changing and dominating over the popularity of Glam Rock. I hit the circuit in '77 and ended up on a crew. One of those situations where you are escorted to the stage every night. In '75 and '76 I had played colleges and this was new to me. I remembered that Bowie had changed his style and I recall thinking.."If Glam Rock is on it's way out, why is there a full scale Glam Rock scene , blown to the max, in front of me...in the Rock clubs and theaters I play??? I suspected that the industry was pushing it out of the way..all on their own...for the purpose of a marketing idea/concept which they favored completely over Glam. I was classically trained as a child and learned Jazz standards . I was from a Classical family of musicians. Here I was age 18, traveling on a bus with Glam Rock original band and even a few covers, managed, pampered, ..it was insane. I was really into John McLaughlin and definitely on the wrong music scene for sure. The wrong side of the tracks. The fashion aspect was extreme and I grew tired of sitting in a fancy dressing room with a woman making up my face every night...with pancake goo..whatever?? lol Then the corporation/management/staff would pamper you and stroke your ego and that shit is really scary. It's much more difficult to deal with people like this when you are 18 years old, spent the whole of your life locked in a room with a music teacher/guitar instructor, have no idea what goes on in real life..or what gets in your face, and you suddenly make a fine audition, hit the road, and are faced with nightmarish realizations. And especially if you didn't agree with that way of life. The 20th century society wanted to enjoy Rock music but actually adapt or connect it to their personal life. Sexual promiscuity, drugs, and criminal actions were manipulative in the environment surrounding a serious musician/artist. When you are on the corporate level , age 40 (for example), this stuff will make you laugh, however it will still annoy the crap out of you no matter how resistant you are...because you are traveling with it like you do in a flippin' circus. However again...when you are really young and you don't even know what kind of person you are..this stuff will destroy you. It will mess with your head big time if you allow it. What angered me the most was their abundance of confidence to stand there in front of me , look me in the eye..and say: "This is real life"....I mean says who? You?" Not everybody wants to be part of that life and it's solely based on their lack of tolerance for a silly world. I look upon it as a dirty world. A shameful one. There are musicians who give in to this world and those who just play the game and keep to themselves. But it's not as if this all comes with a book of instructions when your 18.

It doesn't have much to say for morality. Especially if you were raised differently and your personal belief is in romance/sincerity or possibly even making a promise to a girl who you love and is a soulmate. This is the rarest thing to find or run across on the road. You might be a guy who was raised differently and all this sexual exploitation is completely turning you off. It's phony and it lacks satisfying sensibilities in the area of atmospheric romance. It's like stepping in dog crap..if you weren't raised with beliefs that are not moral and you are suddenly flung into it. There are musicians that traveled the road with me in the 70's that witnessed nothing. They just ignored everything around them. Eventually I became disturbed/alarmed by such a vastness of that world. When I got off the road, (for a short period), I was no longer trusting people that I knew HAD morals. I started believing that the world itself was like the music industry and that's not really true, but because I was young, impressionable, and angry..I had that perspective on life. I had to work myself through that by using my brain to think about how ridiculous it would be to allow society in the music business offend me and I healed myself with self preservation. You can't just enter that world on a corporate level and at a very young age...if you were raised much differently than other's. And maybe you were not raised differently, but simply thought that way about it anyway. When I was on the corporate level there were people brought in to hound you and if you didn't get into a car and drive away you'd never get away from them. Regardless if they were invited or not, they were there to sexually manipulate you. The most depressing realization I had to face was when I watched Prog completely sizzle out on the music scene. As I toured theaters, name acts like Happy The Man, Nektar, Steve Hackett, and Renaissance were touring around me, the same theaters, whatever? and it was very sad. I was probably around 23 sitting in Holiday Inns and listening to Univers Zero , trying to deny that this part of the business was on it's way out. It wasn't being promoted like in the early to mid 70's , yet people in theaters were loving it. Loved it up until a point in life where they had to raise children and disregard concerts. So that was really sad for me to witness. The suicides I witnessed were awful. Don't think for a minute that the nature of the music business can't drive a musician to suicide because it's untrue. In my case...several musician buddies did themselves in because they were disappointed. This happened on the road a few times and "hands on" experiences are always the worst, I'd rather just read about it than have experienced it. I believe the reason that they did it revolved around their high ideals. Just like Rick Derringer tells it on a youtube vid, it is totally one hundred percent correct in my road experience. They were great players...very skilled..they hit the corporate level bookings , thought they were on their way to the almighty, discovered that life is not that much different when you go international, and boom boom out went the lights. They killed themselves because they were disappointed. I seriously don't like what they did or the reason for it. I was very quiet and knew from the start that the music business wasn't going to be this grand throne of sorts and that even on the corporate level...you had to pay your dues. You had to get used to disappointment. Perhaps I should have helped them and I didn't. Perhaps I shouldn't have closed off the entire world because I was offended by the one I lived in. These were young people who threw themselves into a world that abused them by making promises they couldn't keep.

**regenerativemusic** · 04-14-2016

Originally Posted by Rarebird

Composing is the only thing I can, or at least sometimes think I can.

I enjoy what I am listening to of yours. I think anyone who breaks the mold successfully will not always be rewarded by the words of others. The mediocre are always lifted higher than the gifted,
except when the gifted fit neatly into the mainstream. Most who are successful are still gifted but rarely innovative. I think the key lies in finding one's "utility" and humbling accommodating the needs of the public with one's music.

**Rarebird** · 04-14-2016

Originally Posted by regenerativemusic

I enjoy what I am listening to of yours. I think anyone who breaks the mold successfully will not always be rewarded by the words of others. The mediocre are always lifted higher than the gifted,
except when the gifted fit neatly into the mainstream. Most who are successful are still gifted but rarely innovative. I think the key lies in finding one's "utility" and humbling accommodating the needs of the public with one's music.

At least I once was rewarded by a violin-teacher and writer, who introduced me as someone who would be in the music encyclopedia between Mendelsohn and Mozart, within 10 years, but that's a long time ago, not long after I wrote 'Branoul'. He asked me to write music to go with 2 Emily Dickinson poems. The music was performed by the computer and the poems were read by an actress.

**Rarebird** · 04-15-2016

To add to the last post:
A Dutch composer I like and admire seems to be quite succesfull and has his work performed by various orchestra's all over the world and I wouldn't consider his work mediocre.
http://www.johandemeij.com/index.php