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Thread: Roger Waters - "The Wall" - The Opera!

  1. #101
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Seriously, that's what happened?? If so, it explains a lot.

    Still doesn't explain why Waters hasn't moved on with his life like everybody else, but it would explain his desire to continue milking the dead cash cow.
    Well, it's not like anyone's breaking down doors to hear The Final Cut performed live. I would think that Waters wouldn't need the cash, he's already got more than he could spend in his remaining years. Mason implied a while back that all three remaining members of Floyd were quite well off. Maybe Waters has the urge to create and while the well has run dry, he can still "reinterpret" old material in a new way. Or maybe he's just milking the cow. Hard to figure out what his exact motivation is.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  2. #102
    Member zravkapt's Avatar
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    Actual conversation from 1985(maybe):

    Waters: Next time we tour, we should do The Wall again.
    Gilmour: No
    Waters: That's it! Pink Floyd is over!
    Gilmour: Ummmm....
    The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off

  3. #103
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Rick Wright milked Zee for as much as he possibly could.

  4. #104
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Rick Wright milked Zee for as much as he possibly could.
    Apparently the public was lactose intolerant.

  5. #105
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    The great thing about 'The Wall' -- no, make that "the ironic thing about 'The Wall'" is that the storyline is explicitly about a rock star who begins hating his audience and constructs a wall, literally and figuratively, to keep them away.

    Waters has never been Mr Personality but to have his "fuck you" message to the audience become his enduring legacy is supremely ironic.

  6. #106
    Ironically, Gilmour's solos on The Final Cut are among my absolute favourites of his whole career.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Ironically, Gilmour's solos on The Final Cut are among my absolute favourites of his whole career.
    Same here. It may have something to do with the fact that they are rather concise and that they bring some fresh air into a suffocating atmosphere. The contrast works quite well. (And I think the melody in The Final Cut - the song - is gorgeous.)
    There are more solos on The Division Bell, for instance, but they are somehow less effective to me, because there is less contrast (and less drama).

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Waters has never been Mr Personality but to have his "fuck you" message to the audience become his enduring legacy is supremely ironic.
    Oh, that's just silly, except to this small circle of prog heads who can only think of what they want him to do for them. As evidenced by the sold out "Wall" tours, I don't see any hatred at all. In fact, I see him giving a vast audience exactly what they want. Now, if he sold tickets to a "Wall" show and only performed "The Final Cut," it might be the case.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Oh, that's just silly, except to this small circle of prog heads who can only think of what they want him to do for them. As evidenced by the sold out "Wall" tours, I don't see any hatred at all. In fact, I see him giving a vast audience exactly what they want. Now, if he sold tickets to a "Wall" show and only performed "The Final Cut," it might be the case.
    Plus, the version of The Wall that he toured was much more of an outward expression than simply one about the protagonist. I tired of the original version (though I still bought tickets when he toured it because Roger puts on a good show) but after seeing this more current version, I was very happy with the tweaks to the story that. They made it, for me, far more palatable and less about a whiny rock star which is what I came to see the original as after aging out of my teenager/early 20s. I really liked his touring version.

  10. #110
    I picked up the Pure Blu Ray audio of Amused to Death last year and was pleasantly surprised, as it was much better than i'd remembered.

    My problem with Waters is his megalomaniacal behaviour, and the fact that he increasingly took control of Floyd, resulting in, IMO, their weakest works: The Wall and Final Cut. Even the post-Waters Momentary Lapse of Reason was, if not in production, then at least in material, better than those last two Floyd albums.

    For me, the group peaked with Meddle. I like DSotM and WYWH well enough, my only problem is that over-exposure kind of diluted them for me at the time, though revisiting them occasionally now is pretty darn enjoyable. Surprisingly, since it was the beginning of Waters taking over as I recall, I really like Animals a lot...perhaps second to Meddle.

    But The Wall and especially Final Cut just don't feel like PF albums to me. Other than Comfortably Numb (and even then), The Wall just doesn't have what made PF great ... for me.

    And so, Waters' solo career has been less than great for me. I can't stand watching him live because, as I've mentioned before, even when someone else is being featured, he seems to be doing everything he can to grab the audience's attention. This, as opposed to leaders like Steven Wilson and Robert Plant (who, when he toured Band of Joy and gave Patty Griffin/Griffiths, my mind is blanking right now, a solo spot, he went to the back of the stage and played some harmonica, but made sure she got the spotlight), who are generous with ensuring that when other members of their band are being featured, they get the spotlight. The current Wall concert film is a travesty - bad enough that the music isn't great (though the band is exceptional), but it just seems that every frame is aimed at Waters.

    Gilmour seems a much humbler guy, and even if his solo albums have been good to very good but not great, live - whether with post-Waters Floyd or under his own name - he always delivers and in a way that makes it feel like his band members are just that - band members.

    Maybe I'm taking the personal aspect too far, but every time I've seen Waters perform Comfortably Numb post-Floyd, when whoever is singing the Gilmour lines is singing, Waters is constantly strutting around the stage, often with his arms raised way up ("Look at me! LOOK AT ME!!!!"), mouthing the lyrics...and the camera is almost always on him. I find that really, really distasteful. Add to that his throwing his political views out into the world in a most distasteful way, and I just can't stand watching the guy for very long. There are only a few rock stars who, IMO, are both smart enough and humble enough to put their political views out there without making it seem more about them than the issue at hand.

    Peter Gabriel is one of them who can do it, IMO; Roger Waters, equally IMO, is not. And that is absolutely irrespective of whether or not I happen to coincide with their opinions. I don't have to, in order to be able to respect them. I just need them to be about the issue(s), not themselves.

  11. #111
    Although I have always have had a positive approach to Waters' creations, the level of narcissism displayed in The latest The Wall movie is a bit hard to swallow for me.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with Mstove. Endless River recalls the Pink Floyd that I loved most: the spacey/pastoral band that existed before Roger Waters took it over and turned it into a whole different concept. Still great, but not what I came for. I've always said that there was Syd's Floyd, and later Roger's Floyd, and finally David's Floyd, but what I liked best is the late '60s/early '70s era when they were Floyd's Floyd--a true band with no dominant personality calling the shots. ER is still David's Floyd, but it hearkens back to the classic period and I dig that.
    Mister Triscuits,
    Don't get me wrong, Endless River, I do like the album a lot. Also, Waters can keep giving for me, never tire of what has done and am sure others will appreciate too inc. next generation hopefully.
    Endless River, infact I did contradict many who were dissing it at the time on P.A. and still listen often to date but in my opinion they ruined it by adding that one (single) song with vocals argghhhh it's terrible at best grrrr

  13. #113
    Great Classics never die, no matter how many times you re-release them, this alone proves how brilliant and timeless they continue to be.

  14. #114
    We agree to disagree, I happen to love what Waters does and have the utmost admiration for him and all he has done in his career
    Howard Stern who dismissed him many times, spoke out publicly against Waters, even he finally warmed up to Roger Waters. Here is a live interview video movie not just radio of this interview

    Howard Stern TV Roger Waters From Pink Floyd Interviewed Full Video

  15. #115
    Some PF fans don't like Roger Waters stance pro-Palestine. I happen to find it admirable and don't want to get into politics, also I am torn between both sides and hate war as only the innocent seem to suffer.
    Anyway, not only Waters, but here both Gilmour and Waters are singing for hope Palestine charity. So Beautiful and raw.
    David Gilmour & Roger Waters (Pink Floyd) Live 2010 (Palestinian Charity)

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by zravkapt View Post
    Actual conversation from 1985(maybe):

    Waters: Next time we tour, we should do The Wall again.
    Gilmour: No
    Waters: That's it! Pink Floyd is over!
    Gilmour: Ummmm....
    hahahahaha!!! something like that hahahaha

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Seriously, that's what happened?? If so, it explains a lot.

    Still doesn't explain why Waters hasn't moved on with his life like everybody else, but it would explain his desire to continue milking the dead cash cow.
    When Amused to death was released it was almost completely ignored at the time and so was Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, I happen to think it's great he is re-releasing his albums, this surely helps to get new listeners/fans (they might even enjoy it more) who never have heard either albums before. For me it's timeless and he should keep releasing it as much as he can really.

  18. #118
    Roger Waters - 5:06AM (Every Strangers Eyes) from Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking Album with ERIC CLAPTON on guitars. Never loved Clapton till I heard this. xxxx

  19. #119
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonia_Mota View Post
    When Amused to death was released it was almost completely ignored at the time and so was Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, I happen to think it's great he is re-releasing his albums, this surely helps to get new listeners/fans (they might even enjoy it more) who never have heard either albums before. For me it's timeless and he should keep releasing it as much as he can really.
    Sonia, do you have the recent reissue of Amused to Death? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I've been curious about that. I probably need it.

  20. #120
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonia_Mota View Post
    Roger Waters - 5:06AM (Every Strangers Eyes) from Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking Album with ERIC CLAPTON on guitars. Never loved Clapton till I heard this. xxxx
    Do you have a copy of the bootleg Thanks For The Ride? A great Pros and Cons show with Clapton. I saw the Pros and Cons tour at Radio City Music Hall, which was great and incredibly mellow (in the balcony anyway) but this was not with Clapton, it was with Andy Fairweather Low. Still great though. A great memory.

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