Progressive Rock Description on Dime

[Shadow]

This was a write up in the description of a show someone just posted on Dimeadozen:

"Progressive Rock" Fans are a funny bunch. Despite the label given to the music they like,
what they want the least is something "new" (let alone progressive). They'd rather go to a show
see a band perform their 1985 album in its entirety, then go see a new band. And if that new band doesn't
sound like Genesis, they wouldn't go see them at all. Of course no venue would consider booking a young,
largely unknown Prog Band, that doesn't cover Supper's Ready.
"What a crying shame", thought Oliver from Germany and established his "Progressive Promotion", to give
young, largely unknown but incredibly talented Prog bands the opportunity to play live. Soon after, a record label
and online record shop followed. "Progressive Promotion Records" was born.
To celebrate the 5th Anniversary in 2011, a festival was staged at the heart of the Rhein-Main-Area. It was such fun
for everybody involved, organizers, venue, bands and most of all fans, that the festival was repeated in 2012.
I'll bring you all seven shows of the 2012 edition in the next couple of days.

[Jerjo]

Well, it certainly describes some prog fans but certainly not all.

[simon moon]

While this doesn't describe all progressive music fans, it does describe far too many.

I've been in conversations with people in line for The Musical Box performances, where I'll list great (non-retro sounding) modern bands and describing them, and not getting any positive responses. No interest at all. Many of these same people listened to bands quite a bit more obscure than Genesis. Now they have no interest in anything new.

If the situation is reversed, that someone tells me about bands that I don't know about, I will go out of my way to write them down in order to check them out later.

[Jimmy Giant]

Many of my older friends that haven't been subject to me turning them onto anything recent are completely stuck with the main acts and their respective solo releases. Genesis/Gabriel/Hackett/Collins, Pink Floyd/Water/Gilmour, UK/Wetton, Yes/Wakeman/Anderson and throw in Crimson, Marillion, and maybe Camel, Renaissance.

But anything outside that mainstream they are completely oblivious to. I even include prog musicians in this group. It drives me crazy when people who SHOULD know modern prog are just as clueless as the rest. I'd shoot myself if I lived in a bubble that small.

The past week alone I bought 6 CDs and 2 DVDs, naturally nothing mainstream. As it should be!

The last Musical Box show I went to a couple years ago, people were happier talking to each other during the show than watching it. As a contrast, I was expecting just that from the Asia concert a couple months ago. But surprisingly no! You could hear a pin drop during Howe's solo pieces. I almost wanted to cry it was so beautiful!

[kristi]

Certainly the idea exists. This kind of supports my theory that people do not happen to seek out new music or go out of their way to be exposed to much beyond the already familiar after the age of 25 +/- a year or two. Almost everyone I know, no matter what music genre they like most, listens to music that was released when they were about that age or younger. Maybe it is the increasing responsibilities as you grow up - and have less time to devote to music? I don't know. Level of exposure to new music changes??? Who knows. But yea, this opinion is not really surprising.

[Reginod]

A few questions:

Exactly what is the appropriate course for one's personal journey of musical discovery?

Exactly who decides that course?

[N_Singh]

A few questions:

Exactly what is the appropriate course for one's personal journey of musical discovery?

Exactly who decides that course?

Pretty much. People of a certain age group tend to like the music of their youth. Those of you who are pushing 60 or have eclipsed it, your musical tastes maybe fully formed. Whether it's prog or Grand Funk or Black Oak Arkansas. Or whatever. That's cool. Even people in my age group--Gen Xers--aren't tripping over themselves to see what's next at Bonneroo or Pitchfork.

Not much music is timeless. 500 years from now, i think history will still look favorably on the Brandenburg Concerto. or Thelonious Monk.

Bob Dylan and Lou Reed? Yeah, not so much.

[Digital_Man]

I like a certain symphonic sound that is in a lot of modern symph and neo prog bands. Most of these bands have a retro sound. I just like keyboards in general and a lot of symph bands focus on keys pretty heavily. That's not the only thing I like though. I like a lot of different kinds of prog and lots of different kinds of music in general. So in some ways I'm typical(whatever that might mean) but in some ways I'm not.

[progeezer]

The old man is a f*****g anomaly yet again!

Over half of the cds I own (about 1800) were recorded after 1985, and I have a lot of doo-wop, 60s psych and both Laura Nyro & Joni M. cds as well as "old prog" & bop & post-bop jazz.

[arabicadabra]

> Not much music is timeless. 500 years from now, i think history will still look favorably on the Brandenburg Concerto. or Thelonious Monk.

Bob Dylan and Lou Reed? Yeah, not so much. <

Your point is very well taken and probably correct overall. Yet I have a feeling that the spirit, insightfulness and indefinable rightness of Bob Dylan's songwriting will be admired for a long time - not to mention the inspiration he was to Jimi Hendrix. Even the song To Make You Feel My Love (which no one will ever convince me is NOT about Jesus, btw) will induce chills in people for years to come - as long as they aren't hearing the Garth Brooks rendition, that is

[progmatist]

The above does *NOT* describe me. Only about 15% of my time is spent listening to classic prog. The other 85% is spent listening to new third wave prog, only a few of whom sound anything like Genesis. Furthermore, the above describes fans of a certain age of ALL music , not just prog fans. When people go to see the Rolling Stones, they don't want to hear anything from the new album. All they want to hear is Jumping Jack Flash and Start Me Up. And most music venues don't want to book original bands, period...prog or not. All they want is "tribute" bands.

[B D]

"..1985...", tee hee....

[moecurlythanu]

If the dimeadozen description is basically accurate, so what? (Not saying it is or isn't, just wondering why it would matter.)

[kristi]

^^ Just interesting is all. Some truth to it, but doesn't apply to everyone. I know folks on both ends. Just far more on the end the paragraph describes.

Funny that 1985 is mentioned. My brother left his ipod here and is not very open to new music. I peeked - only because he just poo poos anything new, to see what he is really listening to, all of the albums (about 100 or so) with the exception of about 6 were released prior to 1985. He was 24 in 1985.

[Dave (in MA)]

This was a write up in the description of a show someone just posted on Dimeadozen:
They'd rather go to a show
see a band perform their 1985 album in its entirety, then go see a new band.

In that order.

[mnprogger]

It's stereotypes that the Dime description gives that kind of lead me to assume most of the music I champion, most people will not catch on to. But occasionally someone does, and they find it on my blog, rym list, or somewhere I mention it. Especially it seems like 9 months or a year or 2 later. I seem to champion bands or albums that often are "late bloomers" I guess, even in some cases, long after the band has broken up.

[notallwhowander]

What-ever!

Is it any surprise that bands that had hits, even hits 40 years ago when prog was the thing, draw a bigger audience than bands that have none?

My sympathy goes out to bands making a go of it now. It's gotta be tough, in any genre. And yes, it is a crying shame, but blaming the "fans" is bullshit.

[Toothyspook]

Although prog fans claim to be open minded I think they are the exact opposite. Far less open than other music fans I think.
They treat it like some kind of exclusive club. It has become more of a fashion statement for a tiny corner of the middle classes.
A good band is one that can emulate a band from 40 years ago.
A great gig is one where they can take great photos and take loads of notes about it all. There is no dancing nowadays and there is little excitement.
If a band gains a bit of success (and it is only relative success) and reaches a greater audience then they must have sold out.
A recent poll I saw heralded the fact that SW had only made number 53.
SW has done more to promote classic rock/prog more than anyone over this last 20 years and because he has achieved a small amount of success they think it is fun to stab him in the back.
That alone summed up, for me, all that is wrong.
No wonder they are mocked.

[notallwhowander]

My only real experience of "prog fans" is here, and it has been far from what the above poster has described.

If a band gains a bit of success (and it is only relative success) and reaches a greater audience then they must have sold out.

Name one music scene that exists outside the mainstream where this doesn't happen.

This isn't a nation. No one owes allegiance to anything. There's no standard or ideal to which a listener must subscribe, or a given hero one must support. Many folks here, at least, really enjoy and support Steve Wilson, some don't. Why should it, how could it be any different? Stabbing someone in the back implies a kind of betrayal. There's no betrayal in not caring for what an artist produces. There's no betrayal in not supporting something that fails to move you. Steve Wilson doesn't go to work for "prog fans," he goes to work for his fans. If you like what he does, then he is doing it for you. If you don't, then he isn't. It's a hard business model, but what else, outside of some kind of grant or patronage system, could it be?

[Lopez]

The old man is a f*****g anomaly yet again!

Over half of the cds I own (about 1800) were recorded after 1985, and I have a lot of doo-wop, 60s psych and both Laura Nyro & Joni M. cds as well as "old prog" & bop & post-bop jazz.

This soon-to-be-old man doesn't fit Dime's description either. I've been on a rockabilly kick for the past two or three years that just won't stop.

I think Dime's description may be tongue-in-cheek, maybe even denigrating, or maybe just uninformed. Certainly doesn't fit any of the prog fans I know. Go down to ProgDay; most of the bands that are chosen are more avant grade than the type of music that the big 5 played/plays.

[mnprogger]

the majority of the acts that play at the prog festivals fit a "profile."

[Toothyspook]

[QUOTE=notallwhowander;34824]Many folks here, at least, really enjoy and support Steve Wilson, some don't.QUOTE]

Agreed, as I do with the rest of your post.

But surly if you stop enjoying someone then you just quietly move on.

Crowing over a poll that seemed to enjoy the fact that SW had been 'defeated' into 1st place is hardly mature is it.

I kind of feel sorry for the talented artists those kind of people do support. Those with alterior motives dont do them, or the whole prog scene, any favours at all.

[gryphs also]

[QUOTE=Shadow;33843] They'd rather go to a show
see a band perform their 1985 album in its entirety, then go see a new band. And if that new band doesn't
sound like Genesis, they wouldn't go see them at all.QUOTE]

My personal opinion is that this comment is in general bovine excrement. Most of ther prog fans I've met are not only diverse in their overall musical preferences, they have a broad variety of prog they like. Sure there are some that fit the description above, but we have to distinguish between those people who attend festivals and those that don't.

There two type of people who attend festivals: those that attend every one they can; those that for artistic or financial reasons go to ones where the bands fit their wheelhouse. The second group often need that anchor band to attend, but they wouldn't spend all that money for tickets, accommodation, transportation, just for one band.

But if you look at the broad spectrum of prog fans who never attended a festival, I'd be willing to bet that their CD collections contain many more CDs from 1985-present than they do 1969-1984. If you are a prog fan and you are on this forum, you probably are more diverse. There can only be so many Yes and Genesis threads. On the main forum there are threads for prog-metal, fusion, jazz-rock, RIO, the classic period of prog, symph....

Like I said, people who haven't progressed in their prog or like other genres of music? I'd bet there is a smaller percentage of them than there are big country and western fans that have branched out into metal.

[simon moon]

Certainly the idea exists. This kind of supports my theory that people do not happen to seek out new music or go out of their way to be exposed to much beyond the already familiar after the age of 25 +/- a year or two. Almost everyone I know, no matter what music genre they like most, listens to music that was released when they were about that age or younger. Maybe it is the increasing responsibilities as you grow up - and have less time to devote to music? I don't know. Level of exposure to new music changes??? Who knows. But yea, this opinion is not really surprising.

There have been several studies that show that, when it comes to music, food, art, movies most people's personal taste is set at 35. So you aren't far off.

I am happy I am one of the exceptions to this rule.

As soon as hear of a new ethnic restaurant, new cutting edge art opening, new genres of progressive music, my interest is instantly peaked. I may not like everything new I try, but if only a few new things turn out to be great, it is so worth it.

I have discovered so many new and wonderful foods, music, art in my 40's and beyond. I have never lost the thrill of discovery.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

While this doesn't describe all progressive music fans, it does describe far too many.

<nods> and that is the shame. Personally, I often wonder if it's not just the 'louder minority'. I like to think that the 'silent majority' are above that myopic mindset but then I *am* an eternal optimist