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Let's save that for our supergroup, Kurt!
like darksinger....Originally Posted by Sunlight Caller
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
Great idea! Then RJG would have something memorable and meaningful to show off.
"Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
"I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
"I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973
Where were the comments from RJG posted - does someone have a link ?
In regards to the reputation of this forum.........I didn't join for years because of what I heard from people on other forums, at prog festivals, etc. about this place. Which is funny, because I've always liked a good flame warI've been on the progarchives forums for 10 years, yet somehow, I let the rep of this place keep me away. Once I joined, I quickly realized that it was actually much better than many other forums I've been on. Still, I think that says something about how fast bad news travels or something like that. I kept away because of others impressions, which turned out to be mostly wrong.
As to RJG, I found his comments about Wilson pretty tame compared to other things I've read him saying about other artists. He even compliments him twice (great talent, great producer) before saying he doesn't do anything memorable or lasting. Which may be true for a lot of people. Personally I like a lot of Enid music, and a lot of SW music. For my money, neither top my list of favorites, but neither is anywhere near the bottom either. I guess if pressed, I would say RJG is obviously a far better composer and arranger with a far broader musical palette to work with, while Wilson is more "visceral" and easy to get your head around. Both are talented individuals who have made their mark on music. I find things to like in both of their music, and find they both have a tendency to say things people don't like. I wouldn't wish Alzheimer's on my worst enemy. My Grandmother had it for a few years before she died, and it was absolutely heartbreaking.
<sig out of order>
I don't understand the drive to announce you're retiring if you're a musician. It's not like he's going to get a gold watch, so why not leave your options open?
The Enid enjoy a quite substantial cult following, especially in parts of their native UK but also in Japan, South America and Eastern Europe. They have been going at it now for 40+ years and their fans have come to expect an uncompromizing will and ability to survive and endure just about every possible setback imaginable - financial, judicial, medical, social, you name it. But now it's time for an everlasting halt, because their one consistent pivotal member and brain, the erratic and wildly colourful, bipolar/BPD homosexual cavillian composer Mr. Godfrey is effectively ascending into pure oblivion - and thus there aren't any 'open options' for him.
In his case I think it was the right thing to do.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Well said, SS. Although I have no idea what a cavillian is.
Just some dude who tends to cavil. Could be a brawd as well, but it's mostly a dude. Anyway, I thought 'Godfrey the cavillian' made him appear somewhat of an aristocratic civilian.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Not exactly sure what your point is, other than sympathy for folks dying early due to drugs.
??
Okay. Nice construction then.
Yes!
There are plenty of sites worse than PE...I find it, generally, a very positive place to be, barring a few folks - and you get that anywhere.
But your first point - go after the message not the messenger - is absolutely what would prevent so many flare-ups on so many forums. That, and another thing which I believe to be a truth: if someone criticizes (or even hates) an artist you love, they are not criticizing you or your tastes. They just don't like (or hate) the artist. I see this far too often, where folks believe that if someone criticizes an artist they love, then it stands to reason that they are therefore criticizing you because you don't feel the same way.
It's rarely true. More often than not, they aren't making any statement about you; they just don't like the artist's music.
Cheers!
John
Well, i think it's because, often, folks expect musicians to play until the day they drop because few musicians actually do retire (though they do often slow down). So when one chooses to do so (like Bruford, and like RJG), they announce it, I think, more because it's uncommon.
As for leaving options open? Of the musicians I know who have retired, the majority really do retire...or some announce, as in this case, retiring from public performance...because they're fed up with the rigours of touring or health problems preclude them from doing so, and so they announce they're done with that...but not necessarily recording.
Well, it took a bit of digging, but I finally found this (for the person that asked about Muso rock, a few pages back):
Muso: a musician, esp a pop musician, regarded as being overconcerned with technique rather than musical content or expression.
I had no clue there was such a thing.
neil
These are the most sensible words ever written on PE. Thank you.
"Always ready with the ray of sunshine"
Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic:
"People have different values. Some people do fine, some people get seriously screwed up.
My heart really breaks for those who die early due to drugs. Did you ever hear of the mythology of the Pied Piper?
The idea that music can lead one astray is as old as the hills."
end quote
My point was that "rock" as an institution, even Prog Rock, is somewhat dubious and ephemeral. There is too much destructiveness inherent in it, and hardly any change is possible. It will pass away, if humanity improves any. Prog rockers seem to do better than the average rocker in terms of longevity. I personally don't look at myself as the same way as I did 10 years ago or more. I've always had friends into experimental music and saw myself "englightened" by that kind of music, but even that's a sub genre often similar to rock. I like the idea of experimental classical music, and trying to educate to that level, which is something still ahead of me, something I still aspire towards.
With all due respect to RJG, I don't think this definition fits Steven Wilson much at all. It sort of makes me wonder how much of Wilson's music he has actually heard. I can see putting this tag on a band like Dream Theater because they are kind of blatant and unapologetic about it. Though there is fine musicianship in SW's music, I really never heard it as being wankery in the style that 'Muso' implies.
They are wonderful words, indeed. Certainly not the first time that this sentiment has been expressed on this site, but always a good reminder.
neil
That would never work with English Soccer, it's pretty much "if you can't play the ball play the man, or ideally both" Does that still work here?
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
Of course Ian. It is the beautiful sport, after all....
neil
Ah, but then you see if you cease touring and recording without making an announcement that it's over, you get criticised for not "biting the bullet". So they can't win either way. For example, Steven Wilson gets flak from some people for putting Porcupine Tree on "hiatus" rather than announcing that it has broken up, but he has stated he wants to leave the door open, whch is fine by me.
Elton John has announced at least twice in the past that he was about to retire. He released a new album a couple of weeks ago, which makes such announcements look rather silly in retrospect.
Funny, I thought tackling was a rugby thing. I am not an afficionado of soccer, but aren't you supposed to just kick the ball or bounce it off your head, unless you are a goalkeeper, in which case you are allowed to touch it with your hands?
To someone accustomed to watching Australian Rules footy, soccer seems all very polite and twee.
Last edited by bob_32_116; 03-08-2016 at 11:43 PM.
nice... interesting perspective. Myself, I have always been a Rock guy. I don't care if the guys playing the Rock are guys that came from the Jazz world or urban African American or Latinos, just as long as the music ROCKS... and of course I do lean toward a less commercial/more progressive Rock music but also enjoy some Pop-ular Rock bands here and there.
As far as the Enid and SW goes, I like ITROSS and AFN and I found the first few PT albums fun but neither artist has done anything that has blown me away. YMMV
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
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