A man facing Alzheimer's disease probably doesn't care.Originally Posted by Esoteric
A man facing Alzheimer's disease probably doesn't care.
To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.
All good my man. The term 'earworm' may not be the 100% accurate one here, but I'm sure my point is still made, and of course I don't mean to imply that the Enid album is less worthwhile from an objective viewpoint.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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I think The Enid's most remarkable distinction is that they introduced rubato into rock music. Nobody had ever found a way (or wanted to) to let rhythms breathe in the way that classical musicians naturally do. It's why I think the performances as an ensemble on Live at Hammersmith (album or DVD) are so impressive. Not in a UK Presto Vivace way, but in the sense of a group of musicians psychically following each other expressively but precisely through non-obvious tempo terrain. That and exercising the full dynamic range of an orchestra from pppp to ffff with every nuance in between.
It might seem obvious that you'd do that if you were inspired by 19th century orchestral and operatic music. But it would have been nice if other groups had continued to explore in their own ways the possibilities of dynamics and tempo relationships that opens up. A little of this kind of thing can be heard in the big theme of And You and I or the intro and outro of Eleventh Earl of Mar (I'm not implying these were influenced by The Enid). These days your garden variety metal band will glory in stop-start sharp-corner tempo and meter changes, but the Enid - not just Godfrey but his other composing partners such as Gilmour, Lickerish and Stewart - used rhythm and dynamics sometimes subtlely and sometimes dramatically to create compositions that feel like something living and breathing, never mechanical.
Pretty harsh. Even if its true, why go there?
Because he can't help himself and I don't think its the Alzheimer's . seriously let your music do the talking,
Godfrey has continuously disclaimed the "rock music" status of The Enid and rather at the most extreme maintained that they are a "post-modern philharmonic rendition of the Sex Pistols". I kinda like that, and I'd personally never listen to Aerie Faerie or Six Pieces or Touch Me with the same precondition or expectancy as I would a Yes or King Crimson record. The Enid play through-composed, charted neo-romantic classical pastiche in a mostly electric setting, and most assets of post-modernist consciousness are indeed quite active in it.
I disagree about his displeasure with Willy, though. The latter has indeed produced some nice music all in all. Nice, if not severely important or exactly innovative.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
RJG has been spouting this sort of talk for years, that's just what he is like unfortunately. He has produced some outstanding music but I guess his talent goes side by side with his spiky personality so you can't have one without the other. while I am impressed with the rebirth of the Enid I don't think RJG has written anything that approaches the level of his earlier work for a long long time and seems to constantly rework the same ideas. Time and time again he has let himself down with poor judgment and decisions and probably paid many years of golf club memberships and school fees for the legal profession with his legal action. By contrast Steven Wilson has to be one of the most together and organised guys around. I'm not a musican so can't make any insightful comparisons, but I'm a big fan of both artists. The Enid's music has more depth I would say but there are really only a handful of really good albums, whereas SW probably has a more consistent and high quality output.
My fave memory (and about the only one) of RJG is when the dressing room wasn't ready for them at Nearfest (the A/C was not working) and he insisted on having UK's instead.
"I'm not playing second fiddle to Eddie Jobson!!!"
Amusing since EJ plays..."fiddle".
We got the A/C fixed pretty quick, though whoever blew up the john prior to that stunk the room up bad enough they probably wished they had waited.
(Not me!) EJ? Was that you?
Chalk it up to my reading it with the wrong frame of mind.
Classic!
I'm afraid I don't file my albums alphabetically. I do it by how memorable they are.
Ahhh... The earworm method.
Currently attempting to catch up on all of the chaos in the Market Square.
really?
Art is something you can find across pretty much all genres of music. While never a fan of rap, watching the movie Straight Outta Compton gave me a whole different perspective on rap's early days, when it wasn't about bitches and 'hos, but was, instead, about social issues. It certainly opened my eyes, my ears and my mind to something I'd unfairly written off with, or rather painted with, a broad brushstroke.
I find it always disturbing when, with no disrespect intended, folks start talking about it being time to pursue "serious" music. What exactly do they mean by serious music? Having just spent some hang/interview time with Adam Holzman at the Montreal Steven Wilson show last week, I can assure you that what he is doing is, in his mind, absolutely serious music (his breadth as a player is something that I don't think people have appreciated until recently, despite a career playing with plenty of significant names)...and with a career like his, he's certainly in a position to assess what he's doing as serious...or, sometimes, not. But always with intent.
As someone who has spent the better part of the past 15 years writing about jazz, I suppose I could be looked upon as someone whose focus has been on "serious music." Except that I really just happened to land there, and so the predominance of my written work has been about jazz. But the truth is, I listen to just about anything...and find value and meaning in most of it, whether it's Lyle Lovett, Leonard Cohen or Bob Dylan; Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson or Little Feat; Cecilia Bartoli, Trio Mediaeval or Philippe Jaroussky; John Abercrombie, Bill Frisell or John Scofield; Opeth, Catatonia or Pain of Salvation; Magma, One Shot or Univers Zero; The Band, Punch Brothers or Alison Krauss; and the list, of course, goes on. And on. And on.
Serious music is in the ear of the beholder; and while there are plenty of artists out there who may not be as significant, meaningful or good as others, it isn't genre that defines whether or not they are. It's the work they do, in whatever genre they happen to find appealing to them.
I think that, as much as Godfrey's work with The Enid is deserving of praise, to leave live performance with a knock of others as he has does not really serve him well at all. It sounds like the words of someone who has a very narrow view of what is good music, and as much as I enjoy The Enid (having come to them rather late, I'm embarrassed to say), reading words like that from someone like Godfrey only serves to damage my feelings about him.
That said, with his diagnosis and with a mother who is dealing with mixed dementia, I do wish him all the best; it's a horrible thing to know your mind is going, even slowly, and I know this from watching it happen. I wish him well and hope that he can continue making music for years to come, and that his Alzheimer's is of a nature that is slow-developing rather than rapid.
Last edited by jkelman; 03-08-2016 at 12:02 AM.
People have different values. Some people do fine, some people get seriously screwed up.
My heart really breaks for those who die early due to drugs. Did you ever hear of the mythology of the Pied Piper?
The idea that music can lead one astray is as old as the hills.
Having lost my mother recently to a combination of heart trouble and Alzheimer's, you need to cut the sufferer a lot of slack. You lose perspective and filter with age but even more so with a diminishing memory. It's probably quite easy to push RJG in a certain direction and then record the fall out. He may have a history of making controversial remarks, but as he rails against this cruel disease, they may become more numerous.
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I don't think that Mr. Wilson will be losing any sleep over this. I have been a fan of the Enid since 1976 and love most of their their music, but have been embarrassed over the years by RJGs outbursts against all sorts of things, Marillion, BJH, more recently Pendragon and various non-music related items. Whether its attention seeking like a spoilt child , it does him little favour, I would much prefer it if he let his music do the talking. Perhaps if he put as much effort into his career and managing the band he would not have to be bailed out by his fans as many times as he has. I have a lost count of the number of discs that I have bought to fend off the latest financial crisis threatening the band, If I trawl through my collection of old Enid newspapers and letters their past is littered with potential albums that were never delivered (some paid for) eg. the Rite of Spring, a concept album based on one of the Bronte sisters, a concept album based on Socrates. etc etc.
I have heard some tracks from the Enid's forthcoming album Dust, (which I bought to pay the latest batch of legal fees) and I must admit that I would rather listen to Steven Wilson than any of the tracks that I have heard so far.
It seems that a few people are struggling with tracks from Dust. Have to say, having heard it in its entirety - albeit in a live setting - I found it compelling, easily up there with The Enid's best work. Maybe it doesn't work so well as as series of soundbites. Whatever, I hope you give it a chance when it arrives.
As a fan of both The Enid & BJH, I'm well aware that Mr Godfrey can be a self-centred curmudgeon (although he's always been unfailingly pleasant when I've spoken him after concerts). That shouldn't detract from the quality of the music he created (I don't understand the "cheesy" slurs, I really don't).
As for Steven Wilson, he's, to my ears at least, also a genius. He's not afraid to step outside his comfort zone, makes fine music in different genres, is a studio master & is also a bit of a curmudgeon. Twin sons of different mothers, really.
I would say the same about the whole Post Rock subgenre. I've listened and listened and listened hoping for something to click, but all I get is strumming guitars that crescendo into a wall of noise -- cue next track, same as the last track. Then again, I can't tell one bit of difference from one EDM artist to the next. Prog Metal has a tiny bit of diversity that I hear. Hip Hop I can tell differences from one artist to the next.
I don't care much for my favorite musicians opinions on other musicians, which might, or might not be musicians whose work I like.
I've no idea how good or bad The Enid's music is, but this does not encourage me to seek it out. Many people in the music business manage quite well without feeling the need to resort to spiteful comments about other musicians. Steven Wilson is an easy target because he has a large following within the progressive community, if not outside it, but also because he is unlikely to hit back; he has a bit more style than to make cutting remarks about other musicians just because he doesn't personally fancy their songs.
RJG is his own worst enemy.
I can't help but wonder whether the rest of The Enid cringe whenever he's given an opportunity to speak.
I really like the music he's written and have enjoyed many a concert by The Enid over the years.
However, he's the very last of all the musicians I admire that I would like to get stuck in a lift with!
Yup, here's that infamous (it must be, seeing how he's got such a "large following" in the "progressive community", as you call it) interview with Our dearly beloved 'Steven' from about a decade back:
08. Dec 2005 at 13:50
Here's an excerpt from an interview with SW about
prog music, and a reply from one of the people he
talks about:
"Jeff Nau (Explicitly Intense magazine): As far as progressive rock goes and
had gone,what do you feel about what's happening now? Dream Theater
is still doing very well, and now there's a new kind of
prog rising up with bands like the Mars Volta and even Radiohead -
but also with older-sounding groups like the Flower Kings and
Transatlantic. What do you think needs to happen for it to
survive?
Steve Wilson (Porcupine Tree): Okay, I think that answer is very
simple: bands like the Mars Volta, Tool, and Radiohead - these bands
are the future of progressive music.
Bands like the Flower Kings and Transatlantic? The DEATH of
progressive music. These are the bands that reinforce every prejudice
people have about progressive rock: old-fashioned, pompous,
pretentious, hung-up on sci-fi concepts - that for me is rubbish. But
there's a new wave of bands that for me are being influenced just as
much by hip-hop as they are King Crimson or Godspeed You Black
Emperor and bands like us as well, I hope.
FWIW, I partly agree with 'Steven' here, and partly also with Godfrey (who had certain health issues way before developing Alzheimers, albeit not necessarily of a somatic character) - although I suppose they could have articulated themselves somewhat differently. But the truth remains that artists partake in discourse because they are (and are entitled to be) opinionated, and that *SOME* of this bias concerns stances on actual, given matter of occurances. I.e. they shouldn't all be expected to know, like, enjoy, respect or for that matter ignore each other. It is discourse!
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Whether or not I can remember anything from a given piece of music is entirely up to me.
<sig out of order>
Indeed. I always have to laugh when they have a group of disparate artists together, often from different generations, and they all profess great admiration for each other's work, and indeed, are tacitly expected to by the host of whatever talk show they are on. Like it was the most natural thing in the world. While it could be legit now and then, call me skeptical that it's always so unanimous.
I don't think any thread would be too much of a challenge.
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