Vishnu - Between Nothingness and Eternity

[Steve F.]

Dream, from BN&E..that is a pinnacle of MO, for me.

I agree100%

[No Pride]

"Rushy"? "Sloppy"? Really, just SFTU.

Shut fuck the up? It's not even an opinion, it's a fact. They had many attributes (and their sheer adrenalin was astounding), but tight ensemble work and steady tempos weren't amongst them. Like I said, I worshipped them and saw them live 4 times; thought they were incredible! But as I developed as a musician, I became more aware of that kind of stuff, because I had to. You don't have to like it, just as I don't have to SFTU, whatever that is.

[Frankie]

I could have wished that band a different fate.
If Hammer had had a bigger say, if they had relaxed a bit more so that not almost every tune ended up as a speed championship (I know - it was their trademark, but...).
I learned to love them, but at the time they were on top of the fusion world, I found the longish stress doodling rather boring. McLauglins guitar sound has always puzzled me. Probably the most famous guitarist with generally the ugliest solo sound, no matter who he plays with (except when acoustic).

They should have made Hammer stick to electric piano and got rid of the violin player, then they would have been perfect!

[Rarebird]

They should have made Hammer stick to electric piano and got rid of the violin player, then they would have been perfect!

No violin? Sacrilege.

I love the first incarnation of Mahavishnu Orchestra. The second one a bit less.

[at least 100 dead]

I love the first incarnation of Mahavishnu Orchestra. The second one a bit less.

Same here, although Visions of the Emerald Beyond contains three of my favorite MO tracks (“Lila’s Dance”, “Pastoral” and “Faith”). IMO, Apocalypse gets bogged down by the orchestral accompaniment. Never heard Inner Worlds.

[Phlakaton]

Can't say I was ever too hip to these guys, Meeting of the Spirits aside. Good stuff, but not a lot of it is particularly memorable for me.

Woah. To each their own... but I have a hard time understanding how these guys arent particularly "memorable." haha

[zombywoof]

Woah. To each their own... but I have a hard time understanding how these guys arent particularly "memorable." haha

Yeah, I think it comes from my love hate relationship with all things fusion. For one, I have to be in the right mood for it, and I'm usually not. I got their live record this past summer and it didn't do much of anything at all for me. I've really tried with these guys - they just don't goose the bumps. One of these days I will give them another shot, 'cause I adore "Meeting of the Spirits".


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[Steve F.]

I got their live record this past summer and it didn't do much of anything at all for me.

Between Nothingness & Eternity didn't do anything for you?

Try listening to Dream when you are in the mood and you can give it your attention for 25'. Remember it's 1973. This is live. There are no overdubs. No one else had ever done anything like this before. Anyone doing it was following their path.

It unfolds slowly. Don't be in a hurry. Again, it's 25' long, but the actual written structure is one page of music or less and the rest is all improvisation or improvisation within a framework ("this is a loud part. this is a quiet part. this is a part where we all show off who has the biggest dick on their instrument.") The are so many highlights, but the drum / guitar duos are unreal.

Billy Cobham's playing in those days continues to amaze me.

imo.

[Phlakaton]

Between Nothingness & Eternity didn't do anything for you?

Try listening to Dream when you are in the mood and you can give it your attention for 25'. Remember it's 1973. This is live. There are no overdubs. No one else had ever done anything like this before. Anyone doing it was following their path.

It unfolds slowly. Don't be in a hurry. Again, it's 25' long, but the actual written structure is one page of music or less and the rest is all improvisation or improvisation within a framework ("this is a loud part. this is a quiet part. this is a part where we all show off who has the biggest dick on their instrument.") The are so many highlights, but the drum / guitar duos are unreal.

Billy Cobham's playing in those days continues to amaze me.

imo.

that last keyboard vamp after the big build up and blow out (around 18:30) Cobham's tight little playing too... just brings it all back to earth and as it lands delicately on the soil... my head explodes! This band is alien and always has been for me. Amazing.

[Phlakaton]

then you have the unreleased stuff - ummm --- Vital Transformation on this one is SICK. John and Billy are off the hook on this. I mean... DAMN.

[zombywoof]

("this is a loud part. this is a quiet part. this is a part where we all show off who has the biggest dick on their instrument.")

I agree I need to give this band another shot.

[Dave (in MA)]

Never heard Inner Worlds.

It's pretty good if you skip the vocal tracks, albeit somewhat dated.

[at least 100 dead]

"this is a loud part. this is a quiet part. this is a part where we all show off who has the biggest dick on their instrument."

Actual quote taken from lead sheet! (Another one reads: “Drink three buckets of coffee before gig. Assume no lavatories on premise. Play as though taxi is waiting outside with running meter. I solo first. Goodspeed and whatnot, Mac”)

PS: The IMF reissue adds a 15 min skullcrush version of “Noonward Race” kind of similar to this one:

[at least 100 dead]

I agree I need to give this band another shot.

Have you heard Billy Cobham’s Spectrum (1973)? That’s a great MO spin-off and much more relaxed and groovy. (FWD to 3:00 for actual song.)

[Steve F.]

PS: The IMF reissue adds a 15 min skullcrush version of “Noonward Race” kind of similar to this one:

Which reissue? I have never seen a extra 15 minute Noonward Race on IMF. You mean BN&E?

[Steve F.]

“Drink three buckets of coffee before gig. Assume no lavatories on premise. Play as though taxi is waiting outside with running meter. I solo first. Goodspeed and whatnot, Mac”

[Steve F.]

p.s.

with all due respect to someone's opinion that differers from mine, I am listening to The Noonward Race posted above and McLaughlin's tone is simply amazing and fucking sick.

[at least 100 dead]

Which reissue? I have never seen a extra 15 minute Noonward Race on IMF. You mean BN&E?

It's on the 2011 remaster of IMF...could be that it's only available as part of the this boxset, though. It was recorded at the Mar Y Sol Festival, April 1972. It sounds really, really good. Punchier than BN&E.

[Steve F.]

It's only on the box set. But I know the version. I own that double album of the Mar & Sol Festival JUST FOR that one track!

[at least 100 dead]

It's pretty good if you skip the vocal tracks, albeit somewhat dated.

Need to check it out soon.

[at least 100 dead]

It's only on the box set. But I know the version. I own that double album of the Mar & Sol Festival JUST FOR that one track!

Makes you wonder if more by MO was recorded at that gig.

[Jay.Dee]

PS: The IMF reissue adds a 15 min skullcrush version of “Noonward Race” kind of similar to this one [Cleveland, OH, Apr 21, 1972]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guuAfFknR4o

I have a bunch of MO bootlegs and most of them are lacking in sound quality IMO. Here's one of the better ones [Berkeley, CA, Nov 9, 1972]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh3lf7raEkY

Two more excellent shows from 1972. "Noonward Race" from Cleveland is so tight and powerful, while "You Know You Know" from Berkeley is sublime. I can hear a band really in sync.

And just compare these two renditions with this BN&E outtake ("Awakening, released in the box); for me it is a study of chaos, the utter lack of direction and communication:



You know, I have my soft spot for once powerful bands in disarray, the best examples are Deep Purple on 1976 tour and Led Zeppelin on 1977 tour, where their respective guitarists fought for life on stage and the rest of the band tried to save the show. For me there was something epic, tragic and definitely moving in their downfall documented on various tapes.

However, what I hear on BN&E recordings is just a bunch of cocks, each one trying to outplay the others. A foretaste of upcoming stadium music, when musicians come to stage to deliver grand flashy solo gestures with little room for group communication/improvisation. I guess I'd have had to be there to understand its appeal.

[Steve F.]

Makes you wonder if more by MO was recorded at that gig.

of course it was. The entire festival was recorded.

This was released:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Mar-...elease/1114825

Do those tapes still exist? That's the question to ask now....

[Steve F.]

However, what I hear on BN&E recordings is just a bunch of cocks, each one trying to outplay the others. A foretaste of upcoming stadium music, when musicians come to stage to deliver grand flashy solo gestures with little room for group communication/improvisation. I guess I'd have had to be there to understand its appeal.

Well, I'll have to disagree. BN&E are my favorite live MO recordings and I have a billion. Not the extra tracks from the box, but the original album.

ymmv.

[Zeuhlmate]

BN&E was the first album with MO I got. I prefer side 1 Trilogy/Sister Andrea to side 2 Dream.


This 'spin off' is definetely also worth checking out; Live In New York by Jan Hammer Group http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/janhammer5

Its sort of the live version of Oh Yeah, which is just awesome